Would it be confirmed? Will it not go on head to head e.g. if Leicester beat us 2-0 they go through or is on GD primarily?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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James against deep defence is pointless. Our attack is our best weapon so no changes there. Tfm can replace AWB who really looks spent and that should be only change in first 11.
If we have sacrificed FA cup then lets make that count. Best 11 on the pitch and build GD. After sunday players will have 14 days of rest so in these two games we must go in full strength.
GD first tie breaker, then goals scored after that H2H i think.
First tie breaker is GD for sure.
Interesting. So a 3 or 4 nil would stand us in good stead. Could be tricky though with West Ham in good form and Antonio on fire. Hopefully they've been on the piss after confirming survival.
@Damien explained it well.
Probably got something wrong but here's the basics
Don't think so. Quick example (what I'm saying is scenario 1 and 3, what you're saying is 2 and 4):
Cheers.
He got it wrong, he knows he did.
Not just hindsight, as I really thought we should have retained maybe 3-4 players to start the cup match and continued with the 433 (one of Maguire/Lindelof, Pogba and Fosu from the last match should have started).
Ighalo and Romero defo deserved to start but I think Ighalo should have come on at half time to by pass the press and turn their defence (like he should have vs Saints).
I do however think Ole has been let down by his players / starters.
The first goal was poor defence on the left, and then Lindelof and DDG were even worse.
The second Williams was bad, and DDG was terrible.
The third Maguire wasnt great, and current DDG was helpless (prime DDG saves that imo)
Formation doesnt work. Chelsea were smart in the way they pressed, and left space for AWB to get the ball most of the time, and once he did the press was hard closing off other gaps and straight into him.
Not just hindsight, as I really thought we should have retained maybe 3-4 players to start the cup match and continued with the 433 (one of Maguire/Lindelof, Pogba and Fosu from the last match should have started).
Ighalo and Romero defo deserved to start but I think Ighalo should have come on at half time to by pass the press and turn their defence (like he should have vs Saints).
I do however think Ole has been let down by his players / starters.
The first goal was poor defence on the left, and then Lindelof and DDG were even worse.
The second Williams was bad, and DDG was terrible.
The third Maguire wasnt great, and current DDG was helpless (prime DDG saves that imo)
Formation doesnt work. Chelsea were smart in the way they pressed, and left space for AWB to get the ball most of the time, and once he did the press was hard closing off other gaps and straight into him.
I so want to be wrong about Ole and hopefully in time he will have me eating my words. I'm glad he came out and said he got his tactics wrong in picking the side against the Chavs. So close to a major trophy but decides to put the league first.
From a financial point of view I can see why he's done it but it's a major trophy and should of picked his best side. We've had the momentum on our side since lockdown so you should of continued with it.
A question that I don't have the answer to so hopefully one of you can fill me in. Would Ole of had to name his side before or after the Spurs- Leicester result ?
If he had the luxury of waiting for the result it's a even bigger cock up from his side.
From a financial point of view I can see why he's done it but it's a major trophy and should of picked his best side. We've had the momentum on our side since lockdown so you should of continued with it.
A question that I don't have the answer to so hopefully one of you can fill me in. Would Ole of had to name his side before or after the Spurs- Leicester result ?
If he had the luxury of waiting for the result it's a even bigger cock up from his side.
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He looked pretty angry, at who idk though.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Yes he's brought in players and indeed promoted players who in turn have been some of our best performers this year.
My point was that there is a mental fragility to this squad that has yet to be fixed. Let's not get carried away its one defeat in 19 but the performance on Sunday was one we have seen time and again from this group. Its not to say they're a bad group but they never double down and do the basics.
Close to end of half and been a long break in play so important to concentrate and do the basics. Clear your lines, pressure the football, track your runners. We didn't 0-1
OK your down one start of second half raise your sharpness switch on and don't make a mistake. Brandon, Fred, Maguire and Lindelof all culpable before we even look at what DDG did. 0-2
Jobs just got tough but we can still do this. Don't concede again make sure we out work opponents for rest of game. Do the basics and don't get any worse from here. Poor clearance, defence doesn't move over as ball comes back, cross not closed whoops 0-3.
Thats what I mean when I say he cannot trust them. This is by no means the norm for the team who have been playing very well, but not one red who's been watching us for last 7 years could say we haven't got 4/5 of these types of performances in us each year.
This experience will hopefully help them learn and develop more so that future challenges such as this, (when the opposition is playing better than you) we will manage better.
I don't want Ole out he's doing a fantastic job! If we get top four and hopefully can go all the way in Europa I'd say that's an excellent season to build on wouldn't you?
Just wanted to put this here as I feel Pauly explains his points really well, and how we used to do rotation under SAF etc.
I feel like he shuts down a lot of the arguments criticizing Ole for selecting the squad he did for a Semi-Final as well as what we'd expect to be able to get out of West Ham even with a squad that isn't firing on all cylinders.
That every trophy matters!
(He just needs to stop beating up his desk so much..)
Here's the post the video was published with, not a lot more text there, but some interesting comments under as well.
https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...mistakes-not-team-selection-manchester-united
I feel like he shuts down a lot of the arguments criticizing Ole for selecting the squad he did for a Semi-Final as well as what we'd expect to be able to get out of West Ham even with a squad that isn't firing on all cylinders.
That every trophy matters!
(He just needs to stop beating up his desk so much..)
Here's the post the video was published with, not a lot more text there, but some interesting comments under as well.
https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...mistakes-not-team-selection-manchester-united
We can't compare this squad to the squad of SAF. I would say only Bruno may be a regular in the team of SAF.
I knew he would rotate the team but expected him to replace everyone but I guess he didn't have the luxury because of injuries.
I knew he would rotate the team but expected him to replace everyone but I guess he didn't have the luxury because of injuries.
That post you quoted is literal AIDS...
And for what it's worth, I thought the line-up tried to balance the priorities of Top 4 while also trying to go for the win. That it didn't work out is annoying as I really wanted us to win the FA Cup after so long without it and us losing our record winners' position to Arsenal.
What I don't understand though, are the people crowing about the lack of rotation. Ole gave his squad players a chance vs Norwich in the last round and they proceeded to almost shit the bed. In hindsight, I can safely say that it would have been better to give the whole second XI a run out, but unfortunately that's the issue with hindsight, it's always 20-20.
Chelsea had those extra days, and in the end, those days told. They played well and deserved the win. We didn't and mistakes were made on and off the pitch, but if there's anything I've learned from Ole's tenure thus far, it's that he learns very quickly from his mistakes.
Yep. We finally have a first team which is capable. But the lack of depth is now our limiting factor. Compounded by the condensed fixture list.
I think the break to Europa games should be fine. But the last couple of PL games and any potential injuries are a big concern.
I worry about our capability to win games without our best starting 11. It is a catch 22 though!
As far as I'm concerned no one is really blaming Ole for the main lineup bar the very weird 5 in the back stuff that served no purpose. If anything I'm blaming him for not resting more players after 0-2. Pogba and Greenwood shouldn't have come on and Rashford and Bruno should have been subbed off pretty early. It wasn't our day so no reason to risk main players in the second half.
I didn't care that much about losing this cup, but the terrible thing is we lost and we barely rested anyone at the end of the day. Most main players played 45-90 minutes and will enter the next match tired again. We should have given up on the match immediately after 0-2.
After it became 2-0 I messaged my United chat group of friends asking for exactly the changes he made, Pogba and Greenwood on for Fred/James at 48 minutes. I didn't think we played that poorly, and I believed us to be in with a shout to get to over-time if we reacted early enough. I didn't believe in our comeback strength in the past seasons, but this season has changed me back to being a believer.
And I have seen many complain that we didn't rotate every First XI player. I also liked our starting formation, while we were struggling a bit under pressure you can't expect us to dominate both halves against Chelsea. This kinda lineup worked for us against them in the past. Had Bailly not been injured we'd likely have gone into half-time with 0-0, and then allowing to put on our fast attackers at 60-70min to chase goals against tired defenders.
I liked the idea of his strategy, but unfortunately it didn't work out, we had to change the formation earlier due to lack of cb alternatives and we got penalized for some silly keeper/defensive mistakes shortly after.
There was no way we were coming back from 0-2 with the performance we have been putting on up till the second goal. We were struggling to complete few easy passes in midfield.
It wasn't our day from the start and Chelsea were up to it more than us. It happens. There was no reason for me to keep throwing main players on hoping for a comeback and tiring them more for the upcoming important league games.
Immediately after second goal I posted in matchday thread asking for Rashford and Bruno to be subbed off and for Pogba to not come in. That's my view imo. It's better to give up on some games rather than persisting trying to comeback from them.
I guess we have to agree to disagree then!
We have a saying in Norway that "Cup er Cup", meaning a Cup-game is a Cup-game, they are unpredictable and a cup-game's life is very independent from whatever else is happening in the league(s). Often said due to the many upsets that can happen (mostly earlier on), but also that players motivation changes a bit when elimination is on the line. It was a Semi-Final, and I would be disappointed if we just forfeited our chance at a final by worsening our team further at that point. We should challenge for any trophy! The message it would send to our players if we didn't try is not the kind of culture I want in our club. We should easily be able to still come Top 4 with the remaining program, if not we don't have anything to do in the Champions League any way.
Imo what Ole did was the right thing to do. Subbing off our key players at 0-2 effectively say we're throwing the towel. It would set a very bad precedent and a very bad set back to the process of rebuild our winning, fight until the very end and do the right thing culture. I don't remember the exact quote but we're United, we didn't lose it was just not enough of time.
Agreed.
Winning Fa Cup doesn't reflect much on winning mentality considering that Arsenal won it loads of times in the past few years and LVG won it too for us and there was not any winning mentality for Arsenal or us under LVG and didn't help both in the run.
I prefer to be realistic.
I didn't say winning the FA cup will help us to build our winning culture. I said throwing the towel would badly set back our process of rebuilding a winning, fight till the very end culture.
Read my previous post again please.
I honestly prefer resting players for more important upcoming games than caring about things like these at all because at the end these aren't going to help us much if they drop points against WHU or missed on top 4 because we got all the main players tired for nothing. I can see your view, but again I'm realistic and have no problem giving up on something for the bigger target.
Well if you don't have a fight until the end culture, you'd usually win nothing big. Players will throw the towel at the first sign of a difficult challenge. Or heavy pressure. Look at Arsenal, that's what happen if you don't have a winning and fight to the bitter end culture.
Didn’t Arsenal beat City? They seem to be doing fine. Didn’t Liverpool get to a Champs league final an lose and a Europa cup final before that? There’s no right or wrong way... Just get to the top.
They did lose 1-0 to Aston Villa tonight.
You could argue Villa needed the points more, but Arsenal also needs to finish 6-7th to get Europa if they don't win the FA Cup Final.
I said big. And I mean look at them for the last 15 years. Especially when they still were in the CL. Basically anytime they had some difficult in a match, their players just rolled over and died. We used to laugh at them about that. We're proud because our players always fight to the bitter end, regardless of how difficult it is.
Tbh I really can't understand the thought of fans wanting their club to throw the towel before the final whistle. It's really coward and a disgrace for any club to do so, let alone us.
I don’t understand fans just being happy with a basic manager because, “Things take time”. But we are here.
We aren’t that United so you have to accept certain standards aren’t the same.
Those two are totally different. One is the process of rebuilding, some think it's good enough, some don't. The other is accepting a disgrace in our culture.
And I remember you now from the sack Ole thread. You're one of the crazy anti Ole guys that lost their mind and common sense hating Ole. Please don't quote me anymore, I really don't want to have any sort of conversation with you guys.
I feel discriminated.
I’m just telling you to keep the standards the same. It’s all ‘cultural reset’ so if your not happy with a performance it’s also in direct relation to the culture.
If we don't qualify for CL again this year that'll be 2 seasons in a row when it's been in our hands at crunch time and we'd have bottled it. Is that worrying?
By December this year if we are struggling I feel that he should be sacked.
We'll qualify this year I'm sure about this.
However the disappointing thing will be having another Top 4 fight again next season. We should be comfortably 3rd or so next season imo.
That would be fair. I'm assuming he'll be backed this Summer, his first batch of signings will have been at the club for 12 months, it's starting to become his team and we should be getting through the inconsistency stages and start producing regular runs of good form. We're seeing that now, but if we go through another period of bad form then he'll have no excuses.
I back Ole but thought his game management was a disgrace today.
There's no way you're telling me some of the options on the bench could have done worse than some of the players on the pitch. They would have been fresh for starters which is an instant upgrade.
There's no way you're telling me some of the options on the bench could have done worse than some of the players on the pitch. They would have been fresh for starters which is an instant upgrade.
I don't know what he's playing at too be honest... Is he trying to run our first team into the ground? It's so bizarre.
seen fair few instances of players being on the beach, 1st time i have seen a manager who can described the same way.
Needs to learn some in game management. He's terrible at it and our team is absolutely shot now going into the most important game of the season.
Last week been a mess. Shows he's got no manager experience at this level.
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