RedStarUnited
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That is the target to have any chance of challenging now I feel. Assume Sancho comes in, Do you think this team is ready to win 28 out of 38 games minimum next season?
No. Hence the arrogance of pretending cup football is beneath of us is absurd.That is the target to have any chance of challenging now I feel. Assume Sancho comes in, Do you think this team is ready to win 28 out of 38 games minimum next season?
Pretty much.Depends on the signings and if more internal improvement occurs from the players and Ole + coaching staff.
Liverpool went from 75 to 97. It can be done.
That is still 2 points less than what we need to do. And they have a far better manager (fact, not being negative). And that might be the biggest outlier I can think of without a change of manager.Depends on the signings and if more internal improvement occurs from the players and Ole + coaching staff.
Liverpool went from 75 to 97. It can be done.
Hell fecking no. Not even close. I ll be happy if we manage to get to 20-22 wins. Anything more than that is a bonus.That is the target to have any chance of challenging now I feel. Assume Sancho comes in, Do you think this team is ready to win 28 out of 38 games minimum next season?
I don't want to compare leagues, because it's not the same. But they did still gain 20 points in Pep's 1st season.That is still 2 points less than what we need to do. And they have a far better manager (fact, not being negative).
It really cannot be done. Not even Barcelona on Pep's first season did that (they ended in 07-08 with 67 points, 12 points fewer than the mighty Villareal, then finished with 87 the following season when they won 6 titles).
I agree with most of this. I thought that Liverpool were going to do that though. Their team was great as shown by reaching back to back UCL finals (and winning one) and their manager is excellent.I don't want to compare leagues, because it's not the same. But they did still gain 20 points in Pep's 1st season.
And I don't think Liverpool or City will necessarily finish with 99 points(but I do see the title winner having 90+ again).
I agree that Klopp is a better manager clearly.
That still remains my biggest reservation with Ole. Can he lead us to a 90 point campaign against 2 of the 3 best managers in the world? I don't see it, but maybe he'll 'lay foundations' for the next manager to do so.
I mean I think it can be done, but a lot of things would have to pan out our way. Rashford + Martial would have to improve perhaps even a bit more. Relatively few injuries. The right signings. De Gea improving again. Ole improving.
It's probably not likely, but you never know. I don't think anyone thought Liverpool would get 97 points after their 2018 campaign.
They were as good the season before. No player of them is past it. No idea why people think that they won't be able to replicate it.It won’t happen again next year.
Liverpool had an insane season with plenty of luck along the way, they’ll struggle to replicate it.
City will be stronger, but so will the whole league. I think it’ll be 80-85 for winners next year.
Fair point on Liverpool. They did reach the UCL final that season and finished the season strongly in the league.I agree with most of this. I thought that Liverpool were going to do that though. Their team was great as shown by reaching back to back UCL finals (and winning one) and their manager is excellent.
I don't see us reaching 90 under any circumstances. In order to challenge we need Liverpool to drop for 10+ points (highly unlikely but possible) and City to not improve much if at all (extremely unlikely) while we improve for 20+ points (extremely unlikely). And if Liverpool keep the form, we need to improve for 30+ points which is as likely as it was for Leicester to win the title.
I know that it is blasphemy to say that, but it is perfectly possible that Pep's CIty and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any United side.The right signings will certainly be a step in the right direction. We do need more quality in depth so we don't drop as many points when we rotate.
Even in our glory days we never truly amassed colossal points totals like we've seen in recent years with City and Liverpool. The squad need to become mentally stronger to get 3 points when we don't necessarily deserve them.
If Ole can cut the gap down to single digits next season he'll have us on the right path.
I would be shocked if it's 85 points for the league winner.It won’t happen again next year.
Liverpool had an insane season with plenty of luck along the way, they’ll struggle to replicate it.
City will be stronger, but so will the whole league. I think it’ll be 80-85 for winners next year.
I know that it is blasphemy to say that, but it is perfectly possible that Pep's CIty and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any United side.
I mean, in one hand we have the 'EPL is stronger than ever brigade' backed by the insane level of spending. Midtable clubs can outspend any non-English club except 7-10 teams or so. In the other hand, we have record-breaking points from City/Liverpool but yet we don't give them credit for being better than United of the past. Both of these things cannot be true, right?
For what is worth, I think the main reason is that football has become more attacking, and this means top clubs have a higher chance of finishing the other clubs. You have good attackers, you win the match.
I mean best is subjective and as a United fan I'll always be biased to our 99 and 08 teams. However it would disingenuous not to at least have the recent City and Liverpool teams included in the conversation. The two teams have been nothing short of exceptional to a level I never thought possible in the PL.I know that it is blasphemy to say that, but it is perfectly possible that Pep's CIty and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any United side.
I mean, in one hand we have the 'EPL is stronger than ever brigade' backed by the insane level of spending. Midtable clubs can outspend any non-English club except 7-10 teams or so. In the other hand, we have record-breaking points from City/Liverpool but yet we don't give them credit for being better than United of the past. Both of these things cannot be true, right?
For what is worth, I think the main reason is that football has become more attacking, and this means top clubs have a higher chance of finishing the other clubs. You have good attackers, you win the match.
This is a very good point. And over a full season, I think this Bruno included squad would is worthy of 75 points over this full season.Depends on the signings and if more internal improvement occurs from the players and Ole + coaching staff.
Liverpool went from 75 to 97. It can be done.
Bingo. Before the top clubs had this advantage of having better players. Now, they have better everything and just starve the other teams off the ball, clinching victories. Liverpool went something ridiculous like 18 consecutive wins, that did not happen before and it isn't cause now the small clubs are so much worse.Most of the domestic league winners the past 5 seasons are amassing more points than ever before. It's probably due to football being more attacking as you said. Teams are committing more men forward and playing even more on the front foot via pressing and more ball monopolization.
I don’t think they’re lucky that they won, but they’ve had so many tight games that they nicked late or won by a single goal.I would be shocked if it's 85 points for the league winner.
I am pretty sure it'll be 90 ish again.
People said Liverpool had insane luck in 2018-2019 and then they did it again this season.
Agreed. Given the massive gap between the top 2 and the rest (I think City could have done better if they had to and were properly motivated), securing third and getting more points than this year would be great for next year. Even if everything goes brilliantly, I'd say we're at least three years away from actually winning the league (unless Pep or Klopp leaves).This is a bit much to think about at the moment. Get close to 80 points and finish comfortably third, being close to second and this will be a good season next year.
Nope.That is the target to have any chance of challenging now I feel. Assume Sancho comes in, Do you think this team is ready to win 28 out of 38 games minimum next season?
Invincibles are the most overrated team in EPL history IMO. They were not that great. I wouldn't have them in my top 5.I mean best is subjective and as a United fan I'll always be biased to our 99 and 08 teams. However it would disingenuous not to at least have the recent City and Liverpool teams included in the conversation. The two teams have been nothing short of exceptional to a level I never thought possible in the PL.
I'd certainly rank them both higher than any of Jose's Chelsea teams and probably above the Invincibles.
They've raised the bar and it's going to take something truly special for any teams to catch up, at least in the short term.
Except that they did (100 points followed by 98).I don’t think they’re lucky that they won, but they’ve had so many tight games that they nicked late or won by a single goal.
You usually find once a team has won it they don’t have the same desire to go and do it again, similarly to city they never won 2 in a row.
Anyway, guess we will see!
The 99 will always be the best team to win the PL in my eyes. At the time, to compete on three fronts and win it all was unheard of. The idea of squad rotation didn't seem as important before that season and it set a benchmark moving forward. However they probably would get beat against the City and Liverpool teams of recent years.Invincibles are the most overrated team in EPL history IMO. They were not that great. I wouldn't have them in my top 5.
United 99 was not better than City and Liverpool, though they are definitely greater, probably the greatest EPL team ever. United 2008 might have a better argument IMO, but still, the consistency was not as high as this Liverpool and Cty.
Mourinho's teams in his first spell were incredible. There was a similar feeling of powerlessness competing against them. In fact, in a quite more defensive league, he won 95 points on his first season, and 91 on his second (though if I am not mistaken, they slowed down after winning the title).
Liverpool this season is the most consistent team in the history of the league IMO, and would have easily reached 105 points if for some competitions. Or could have done a Liverpool and bottle it in the end, if there was some real competition. But they won the title with 7 matches remaining, which is unprecedented. It probably won't happen for a very long time again.
It's not, United 07/08 was better than any City or Liverpool side in recent years. That was a season where English sides were utterly dominant in the CL (only English sides knocked out English sides that season).I know that it is blasphemy to say that, but it is perfectly possible that Pep's CIty and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any United side.
I mean, in one hand we have the 'EPL is stronger than ever brigade' backed by the insane level of spending. Midtable clubs can outspend any non-English club except 7-10 teams or so. In the other hand, we have record-breaking points from City/Liverpool but yet we don't give them credit for being better than United of the past. Both of these things cannot be true, right?
For what is worth, I think the main reason is that football has become more attacking, and this means top clubs have a higher chance of finishing the other clubs. You have good attackers, you win the match.
We have to aim for 85+ pts now, I think fixing individual mistakes alone will get us there. Extra players will help get higher etcOn a related note... if we got 76 pts do we think Ole would deserve another shot, lets say if we got 4th or 3rd again?
I think that they might be the greatest EPL team ever (simply cause they won the treble and the achievements matter), but I don't think that they were anywhere as good as top EPL teams of all time, probably not in my top 5. In current era, or even against SAF's other great team which IMO was better in every aspect and against Mourinho's first Chelsea, they would not have gone anywhere near the title. Their biggest competitor was Arsenal with a new manager, and in Europe, let's say that God helped us a lot.The 99 will always be the best team to win the PL in my eyes. At the time, to compete on three fronts and win it all was unheard of. The idea of squad rotation didn't seem as important before that season and it set a benchmark moving forward. However they probably would get beat against the City and Liverpool teams of recent years.
I actually think the 08 team would hold their own against the competition of these two. The drive and will to win from players like Ronaldo amd Rooney would have propelled us to match them.
Desire holds a huge part in this sort of consistency. It felt destined for Liverpool this year and we dont know whether that may mentally wear them out. To me Pep doesn't look up for another fight and I can see City potentially falling off in the next season or two.
While I don't think we'll be as consistent as either for the foreseeable there are enough variables that could see us closer next season.
76 would be nice IMO, that would actually be measurable progress (unlike this year when IMO it was more other clubs fecking up rather than us improving that much).On a related note... if we got 76 pts do we think Ole would deserve another shot, lets say if we got 4th or 3rd again?