90+ points....

[RedStarUnited]

That is the target to have any chance of challenging now I feel. Assume Sancho comes in, Do you think this team is ready to win 28 out of 38 games minimum next season?

 

[TMDaines]

That is the target to have any chance of challenging now I feel. Assume Sancho comes in, Do you think this team is ready to win 28 out of 38 games minimum next season?

No. Hence the arrogance of pretending cup football is beneath of us is absurd.

We might get there in time, but doing it the Poch way will fecking kill me.

 

[Bilbo]

Why don't we wait to see what our business is this summer before we cast judgement. If we have a deeper squad and a stronger mentality, which I'm confident we will, then we'll win a lot more games next season.

 

[Deery]

Maybe getting a bit a head of ourselves, let’s concentrate on League and Champions League first..

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Depends on the signings and if more internal improvement occurs from the players and Ole + coaching staff.

Liverpool went from 75 to 97. It can be done.

 

[el3mel]

This is a bit much to think about at the moment. Get close to 80 points and finish comfortably third, being close to second and this will be a good season next year.

 

[Santoryo]

Depends on the signings and if more internal improvement occurs from the players and Ole + coaching staff.

Liverpool went from 75 to 97. It can be done.

Pretty much.

It'll depend on signings. Get the right players in and address our depth or be incredibly lucky with injuries and 90+ points is possible. This squad has already shown the ability to go on a winning run(twice now, both when Ole initially arrived and post lock down) and got done by fatigue both time. If we can sort our squad depth by making the right additions, we'll be capable of maintaining and producing longer runs of victories.

 

[Revan]

Depends on the signings and if more internal improvement occurs from the players and Ole + coaching staff.

Liverpool went from 75 to 97. It can be done.

That is still 2 points less than what we need to do. And they have a far better manager (fact, not being negative). And that might be the biggest outlier I can think of without a change of manager.

It is really unlikely to be done. Not even Barcelona on Pep's first season did that (they ended in 07-08 with 67 points, 12 points fewer than the mighty Villareal, then finished with 87 the following season when they won 6 titles).

With manager changes (aka, totally different philosophy) it has been done before. Leicester improved by 40 points though still ended with only 81 points (Ranieri had got the team at the end of the season before), and Chelsea improved for 42 points or so (needs to be said that they were under Mourinho on sabotage mode the season before) ending with 90+ points.

 

[RDCR07]

That is the target to have any chance of challenging now I feel. Assume Sancho comes in, Do you think this team is ready to win 28 out of 38 games minimum next season?

Hell fecking no. Not even close. I ll be happy if we manage to get to 20-22 wins. Anything more than that is a bonus.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

That is still 2 points less than what we need to do. And they have a far better manager (fact, not being negative).

It really cannot be done. Not even Barcelona on Pep's first season did that (they ended in 07-08 with 67 points, 12 points fewer than the mighty Villareal, then finished with 87 the following season when they won 6 titles).

I don't want to compare leagues, because it's not the same. But they did still gain 20 points in Pep's 1st season.

And I don't think Liverpool or City will necessarily finish with 99 points(but I do see the title winner having 90+ again).

I agree that Klopp is a better manager clearly.

That still remains my biggest reservation with Ole. Can he lead us to a 90 point campaign against 2 of the 3 best managers in the world? I don't see it, but maybe he'll 'lay foundations' for the next manager to do so.

I mean I think it can be done, but a lot of things would have to pan out our way. Rashford + Martial would have to improve perhaps even a bit more. Relatively few injuries. The right signings. De Gea improving again. Ole improving.

It's probably not likely, but you never know. I don't think anyone thought Liverpool would get 97 points after their 2018 campaign.

 

[charlenefan]

You have to give credit to both City and Liverpool for their 98/99/100 point returns. Insane level of consistency whatever you think about the level in the PL presently

Unfortunately the way our form tapered out last season and again has done this should leave no one in no uncertain terms how far off we still are.

That's not to say we can't challenge it just means the other teams are going to have to drop as well as us improve

 

[b82REZ]

The right signings will certainly be a step in the right direction. We do need more quality in depth so we don't drop as many points when we rotate.

Even in our glory days we never truly amassed colossal points totals like we've seen in recent years with City and Liverpool. The squad need to become mentally stronger to get 3 points when we don't necessarily deserve them.

If Ole can cut the gap down to single digits next season he'll have us on the right path.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Let's get close to 80 first shall we?

 

[Adam-Utd]

It won’t happen again next year.

Liverpool had an insane season with plenty of luck along the way, they’ll struggle to replicate it.

City will be stronger, but so will the whole league. I think it’ll be 80-85 for winners next year.

 

[Revan]

I don't want to compare leagues, because it's not the same. But they did still gain 20 points in Pep's 1st season.

And I don't think Liverpool or City will necessarily finish with 99 points(but I do see the title winner having 90+ again).

I agree that Klopp is a better manager clearly.

That still remains my biggest reservation with Ole. Can he lead us to a 90 point campaign against 2 of the 3 best managers in the world? I don't see it, but maybe he'll 'lay foundations' for the next manager to do so.

I mean I think it can be done, but a lot of things would have to pan out our way. Rashford + Martial would have to improve perhaps even a bit more. Relatively few injuries. The right signings. De Gea improving again. Ole improving.

It's probably not likely, but you never know. I don't think anyone thought Liverpool would get 97 points after their 2018 campaign.

I agree with most of this. I thought that Liverpool were going to do that though. Their team was great as shown by reaching back to back UCL finals (and winning one) and their manager is excellent.

I don't see us reaching 90 under any circumstances. In order to challenge we need Liverpool to drop for 10+ points (highly unlikely but possible) and City to not improve much if at all (extremely unlikely) while we improve for 20+ points (extremely unlikely). And if Liverpool keep the form, we need to improve for 30+ points which is as likely as it was for Leicester to win the title.

 

[Revan]

It won’t happen again next year.

Liverpool had an insane season with plenty of luck along the way, they’ll struggle to replicate it.

City will be stronger, but so will the whole league. I think it’ll be 80-85 for winners next year.

They were as good the season before. No player of them is past it. No idea why people think that they won't be able to replicate it.

80-85 is wishful thinking. In the last 10 seasons, only twice the champions got less than 85 points (Leicester and United 2011), and in the last 4 seasons, the champions got 95+ points. This is the new normal.

 

[RORY65]

No and that's actually OK, the key thing is that we continue to see progress as we have over the last few months. The Liverpool in 2018 comparison has some merit in that they massively improved in the 2nd half of the season following a big January signing but they were a team who had been competitive in a Champions League final by that summer and then they nailed numerous signings.

We are not as good as they were going into that summer and we're going into a condensed, Covid-hit market where we will likely only bring in 2 or 3 players (Woodward has already said previously it's hard to even do 3 deals and that's before the situation we have now) and won't have any time for them to settle in so we probably have to accept that next year needs to be another year of improvement and getting closer, maybe even being close-ish going into the new year, and then hope we can continue to build.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I agree with most of this. I thought that Liverpool were going to do that though. Their team was great as shown by reaching back to back UCL finals (and winning one) and their manager is excellent.

I don't see us reaching 90 under any circumstances. In order to challenge we need Liverpool to drop for 10+ points (highly unlikely but possible) and City to not improve much if at all (extremely unlikely) while we improve for 20+ points (extremely unlikely). And if Liverpool keep the form, we need to improve for 30+ points which is as likely as it was for Leicester to win the title.

Fair point on Liverpool. They did reach the UCL final that season and finished the season strongly in the league.

Hopefully we get 80+ points. It'd be a good sign of progress.

 

[Revan]

The right signings will certainly be a step in the right direction. We do need more quality in depth so we don't drop as many points when we rotate.

Even in our glory days we never truly amassed colossal points totals like we've seen in recent years with City and Liverpool. The squad need to become mentally stronger to get 3 points when we don't necessarily deserve them.

If Ole can cut the gap down to single digits next season he'll have us on the right path.

I know that it is blasphemy to say that, but it is perfectly possible that Pep's CIty and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any United side.

I mean, in one hand we have the 'EPL is stronger than ever brigade' backed by the insane level of spending. Midtable clubs can outspend any non-English club except 7-10 teams or so. In the other hand, we have record-breaking points from City/Liverpool but yet we don't give them credit for being better than United of the past. Both of these things cannot be true, right?

For what is worth, I think the main reason is that football has become more attacking, and this means top clubs have a higher chance of finishing the other clubs. You have good attackers, you win the match.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It won’t happen again next year.

Liverpool had an insane season with plenty of luck along the way, they’ll struggle to replicate it.

City will be stronger, but so will the whole league. I think it’ll be 80-85 for winners next year.

I would be shocked if it's 85 points for the league winner.

I am pretty sure it'll be 90 ish again.

People said Liverpool had insane luck in 2018-2019 and then they did it again this season.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I know that it is blasphemy to say that, but it is perfectly possible that Pep's CIty and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any United side.

I mean, in one hand we have the 'EPL is stronger than ever brigade' backed by the insane level of spending. Midtable clubs can outspend any non-English club except 7-10 teams or so. In the other hand, we have record-breaking points from City/Liverpool but yet we don't give them credit for being better than United of the past. Both of these things cannot be true, right?

For what is worth, I think the main reason is that football has become more attacking, and this means top clubs have a higher chance of finishing the other clubs. You have good attackers, you win the match.

Most of the domestic league winners the past 5 seasons are amassing more points than ever before. It's probably due to football being more attacking as you said. Teams are committing more men forward and playing even more on the front foot via pressing and more ball monopolization.

 

[Bojan11]

To achieve this you either need a good squad like City or get lucky with injuries like Liverpool had. Liverpool haven’t suffered from big injuries to their key players.

City had De Bruyne injured for a lot of 18/19 yet still won it. We should be looking to build a good squad. I think prem will go back to normal soon anyway where you won’t need over 90 points to win it.

We had a good run towards the end of the season. But clearly the manager doesn’t trust some players to rotate. So we’d need to improve the squad.

 

[b82REZ]

I know that it is blasphemy to say that, but it is perfectly possible that Pep's CIty and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any United side.

I mean, in one hand we have the 'EPL is stronger than ever brigade' backed by the insane level of spending. Midtable clubs can outspend any non-English club except 7-10 teams or so. In the other hand, we have record-breaking points from City/Liverpool but yet we don't give them credit for being better than United of the past. Both of these things cannot be true, right?

For what is worth, I think the main reason is that football has become more attacking, and this means top clubs have a higher chance of finishing the other clubs. You have good attackers, you win the match.

I mean best is subjective and as a United fan I'll always be biased to our 99 and 08 teams. However it would disingenuous not to at least have the recent City and Liverpool teams included in the conversation. The two teams have been nothing short of exceptional to a level I never thought possible in the PL.

I'd certainly rank them both higher than any of Jose's Chelsea teams and probably above the Invincibles.

They've raised the bar and it's going to take something truly special for any teams to catch up, at least in the short term.

 

[sammsky1]

Depends on the signings and if more internal improvement occurs from the players and Ole + coaching staff.

Liverpool went from 75 to 97. It can be done.

This is a very good point. And over a full season, I think this Bruno included squad would is worthy of 75 points over this full season.

I think we'd need serious upgrades at DC, DM and RW and only then can it be a target.

 

[Revan]

Most of the domestic league winners the past 5 seasons are amassing more points than ever before. It's probably due to football being more attacking as you said. Teams are committing more men forward and playing even more on the front foot via pressing and more ball monopolization.

Bingo. Before the top clubs had this advantage of having better players. Now, they have better everything and just starve the other teams off the ball, clinching victories. Liverpool went something ridiculous like 18 consecutive wins, that did not happen before and it isn't cause now the small clubs are so much worse.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I would be shocked if it's 85 points for the league winner.

I am pretty sure it'll be 90 ish again.

People said Liverpool had insane luck in 2018-2019 and then they did it again this season.

I don’t think they’re lucky that they won, but they’ve had so many tight games that they nicked late or won by a single goal.

You usually find once a team has won it they don’t have the same desire to go and do it again, similarly to city they never won 2 in a row.

Anyway, guess we will see!

 

[Tyrion]

This is a bit much to think about at the moment. Get close to 80 points and finish comfortably third, being close to second and this will be a good season next year.

Agreed. Given the massive gap between the top 2 and the rest (I think City could have done better if they had to and were properly motivated), securing third and getting more points than this year would be great for next year. Even if everything goes brilliantly, I'd say we're at least three years away from actually winning the league (unless Pep or Klopp leaves).

 

[Gasolin]

We had 8 wins and 4 draws in the last 12 games in the PL, if we keep the form that’s 81 pts with 2 more games to go: I think 85 pts is achievable.

The key now will be to change to 9 wins and 3 draws, and with that, we can reach 90 pts with 2 games to go and potentially finish around 94 pts. That’s our next objective and I think Ole will aim for that as soon as we have quality rotation available.

 

[Icemav]

That is the target to have any chance of challenging now I feel. Assume Sancho comes in, Do you think this team is ready to win 28 out of 38 games minimum next season?

Nope.

We have looked so vulnerable the last few games. Teams are now going to press and foul us to death. Our play is not bad but so so slow starting with our 3 main playmakers, Pogba-Matic-Maguire. It has also become apparent how important our wingbacks are. Without Shaw is a big big problem. I know we have enough warm bodies and the talk is about RW and CB but for me DLP and RB are very very important too. I like Wan Bissaka and we have to back him to develop but its not like it hasn't been a problem. Slow slow build up passing and limited wingback play has caused us quite a few problems.

That aside well done to the boys for an amazing effort to get 3rd. Onwards and upwards.

 

[Revan]

I mean best is subjective and as a United fan I'll always be biased to our 99 and 08 teams. However it would disingenuous not to at least have the recent City and Liverpool teams included in the conversation. The two teams have been nothing short of exceptional to a level I never thought possible in the PL.

I'd certainly rank them both higher than any of Jose's Chelsea teams and probably above the Invincibles.

They've raised the bar and it's going to take something truly special for any teams to catch up, at least in the short term.

Invincibles are the most overrated team in EPL history IMO. They were not that great. I wouldn't have them in my top 5.

United 99 was not better than City and Liverpool, though they are definitely greater, probably the greatest EPL team ever. United 2008 might have a better argument IMO, but still, the consistency was not as high as this Liverpool and Cty.

Mourinho's teams in his first spell were incredible. There was a similar feeling of powerlessness competing against them. In fact, in a quite more defensive league, he won 95 points on his first season, and 91 on his second (though if I am not mistaken, they slowed down after winning the title).

Liverpool this season is the most consistent team in the history of the league IMO, and would have easily reached 105 points if for some competitions. Or could have done a Liverpool and bottle it in the end, if there was some real competition. But they won the title with 7 matches remaining, which is unprecedented. It probably won't happen for a very long time again.

 

[PSV]

We've lost more points to the bottom 10 teams (27 points) than the top 10 teams (21 points), let that sink in.
We only lost 7 points inside top six (Liverpool 5pts & Spurs 2pts) with doubles over Chelsea, City and Leicester.

Once we figure out how to consistently beat the rubbish sides we'll go 80+ if not 90. An addition or two and we're honestly close.

 

[Revan]

I don’t think they’re lucky that they won, but they’ve had so many tight games that they nicked late or won by a single goal.

You usually find once a team has won it they don’t have the same desire to go and do it again, similarly to city they never won 2 in a row.

Anyway, guess we will see!

Except that they did (100 points followed by 98).

 

[Red00012]

Have to much better than 66 next Season

no chance 66 will get us into champs league next season

 

[b82REZ]

Invincibles are the most overrated team in EPL history IMO. They were not that great. I wouldn't have them in my top 5.

United 99 was not better than City and Liverpool, though they are definitely greater, probably the greatest EPL team ever. United 2008 might have a better argument IMO, but still, the consistency was not as high as this Liverpool and Cty.

Mourinho's teams in his first spell were incredible. There was a similar feeling of powerlessness competing against them. In fact, in a quite more defensive league, he won 95 points on his first season, and 91 on his second (though if I am not mistaken, they slowed down after winning the title).

Liverpool this season is the most consistent team in the history of the league IMO, and would have easily reached 105 points if for some competitions. Or could have done a Liverpool and bottle it in the end, if there was some real competition. But they won the title with 7 matches remaining, which is unprecedented. It probably won't happen for a very long time again.

The 99 will always be the best team to win the PL in my eyes. At the time, to compete on three fronts and win it all was unheard of. The idea of squad rotation didn't seem as important before that season and it set a benchmark moving forward. However they probably would get beat against the City and Liverpool teams of recent years.

I actually think the 08 team would hold their own against the competition of these two. The drive and will to win from players like Ronaldo amd Rooney would have propelled us to match them.

Desire holds a huge part in this sort of consistency. It felt destined for Liverpool this year and we dont know whether that may mentally wear them out. To me Pep doesn't look up for another fight and I can see City potentially falling off in the next season or two.

While I don't think we'll be as consistent as either for the foreseeable there are enough variables that could see us closer next season.

 

[Cal?]

I know that it is blasphemy to say that, but it is perfectly possible that Pep's CIty and Klopp's Liverpool are better than any United side.

I mean, in one hand we have the 'EPL is stronger than ever brigade' backed by the insane level of spending. Midtable clubs can outspend any non-English club except 7-10 teams or so. In the other hand, we have record-breaking points from City/Liverpool but yet we don't give them credit for being better than United of the past. Both of these things cannot be true, right?

For what is worth, I think the main reason is that football has become more attacking, and this means top clubs have a higher chance of finishing the other clubs. You have good attackers, you win the match.

It's not, United 07/08 was better than any City or Liverpool side in recent years. That was a season where English sides were utterly dominant in the CL (only English sides knocked out English sides that season).

 

[Crashoutcassius]

personally I think a 90+ season is hard to predict, they are fairly rare. Things have to come together in a way thats hard to predict

 

[Crashoutcassius]

On a related note... if we got 76 pts do we think Ole would deserve another shot, lets say if we got 4th or 3rd again?

 

[Gasolin]

On a related note... if we got 76 pts do we think Ole would deserve another shot, lets say if we got 4th or 3rd again?

We have to aim for 85+ pts now, I think fixing individual mistakes alone will get us there. Extra players will help get higher etc

 

[Revan]

The 99 will always be the best team to win the PL in my eyes. At the time, to compete on three fronts and win it all was unheard of. The idea of squad rotation didn't seem as important before that season and it set a benchmark moving forward. However they probably would get beat against the City and Liverpool teams of recent years.

I actually think the 08 team would hold their own against the competition of these two. The drive and will to win from players like Ronaldo amd Rooney would have propelled us to match them.

Desire holds a huge part in this sort of consistency. It felt destined for Liverpool this year and we dont know whether that may mentally wear them out. To me Pep doesn't look up for another fight and I can see City potentially falling off in the next season or two.

While I don't think we'll be as consistent as either for the foreseeable there are enough variables that could see us closer next season.

I think that they might be the greatest EPL team ever (simply cause they won the treble and the achievements matter), but I don't think that they were anywhere as good as top EPL teams of all time, probably not in my top 5. In current era, or even against SAF's other great team which IMO was better in every aspect and against Mourinho's first Chelsea, they would not have gone anywhere near the title. Their biggest competitor was Arsenal with a new manager, and in Europe, let's say that God helped us a lot.


United 2006-2007, 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 were the best EPL team certainly until Pep came in the league. They reached high level of points (I believe 87, 88 and 90) while winning one UCL, reaching another final and reaching another semi. However, in the league they failed to show the same consistency as current Liverpool and City. Saying that, football has evolved so yes, I think that in a more attacking league, they would have reached 95 points plus. United in 98-99 no way IMO.

I actually don't think there is much between SAF's second great team, Mourinho's Chelsea on his first spell, Klopp's Liverpool and Pep's City, with United having the best achievements. United 99 and Arsenal's invincibles tie for the fifth-best team in the history of the league IMO.

 

[Revan]

On a related note... if we got 76 pts do we think Ole would deserve another shot, lets say if we got 4th or 3rd again?

76 would be nice IMO, that would actually be measurable progress (unlike this year when IMO it was more other clubs fecking up rather than us improving that much).

I would like to think that we should get 80+ and that should be the target, but 76 points would definitely be a decent improvement.