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The whole team including Pogba became less effective as the matches piled on. If you can't appreciate the effect fatigue had on the whole team, then enjoy.Honeymoon period, that is correct and after the break he was actually less effective as teams started to close him down much sooner. Watch next season when teams are at full flow and Rashford starts taking the penalties again all of these hyped up stats will subside and team as a whole will perform much better.
What untrue media narrative? Was Pogba (or his agent) pushing to leave before we bought Bruno? YesFancy talking about lazy tag when you have just come in to this thread with an untrue media narrative; the only game changing difference Fernandes made post lockdown was to score penalties that he did not win himself or to make a simple pass to a player right in front of him after someone has made the more incisive pass between the lines to him. Cannot wait for this overhyping to dissipate.
So Paul's agent is pushing for an exit up till January and the team has been in dire straights, you correctly point out that the team improved. Which "signings" did we make in January then? And even if you refer to the cumulative effect of the collection of all signings made for the season, Bruno counts right? The fact you can't escape is that his purchase was the one that visibly elevated us from a performance and results perspective.If Paul stays which is not a given has nothing to do with Fernandes and more to do with the way the team has improved with different signings coming in. He still our difference maker but now he has a bit more help.
I think we’d certainly need a new midfielder in place of Matic for this. That said, I’m keen to see Pogba play 10/15 yards further forward. I’m not really enjoying this sitting in front of the defence thing. That said, I think it would need both a nee defensive midfielder, and also Bruno to meet him half way and drop 10/15 yards further back. Currently, Bruno plays around the strikers. Personally, I think the entire midfield trio is shit and won’t take us anywhere. I mean, individually they are top players, but they don’t compliment each other and the unit is shit.Well Ole seems to be planning next season with him at his disposal and possibly playing a bit more advanced likely as an 8 than what we saw post-lockdown
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I don't think that you should hold back like that.I think we’d certainly need a new midfielder in place of Matic for this. That said, I’m keen to see Pogba play 10/15 yards further forward. I’m not really enjoying this sitting in front of the defence thing. That said, I think it would need both a nee defensive midfielder, and also Bruno to meet him half way and drop 10/15 yards further back. Currently, Bruno plays around the strikers. Personally, I think the entire midfield trio is shit and won’t take us anywhere. I mean, individually they are top players, but they don’t compliment each other and the unit is shit.
Haha, just saying it as I see it JP. The midfield is rubbish!I don't think that you should hold back like that.
Now I agree, I'm pretty sure that Bruno was operating deeper before the break and in my opinion he was a lot better in that hybrid 10/8 role, it would make sense to see Pogba and Bruno have similar roles with a DM behind them in a clear 433.
We are not talking about the whole team you mentioned Fernandes was on his last legs and still making game changing differences and I responded as it was not true, not even close. Nothing but a media narrative and gullable fans have lapped it up.The whole team including Pogba became less effective as the matches piled on. If you can't appreciate the effect fatigue had on the whole team, then enjoy.
What untrue media narrative? Was Pogba (or his agent) pushing to leave before we bought Bruno? Yes
Has he been more willing to stay since Bruno's come in, and the team has picked up? Yes
Is the team better since Bruno joined? Yes
He hasn't missed one penalty yet, so why are you so keen for him to stop taking them?
And disregarding all Bruno's assists and goals as simple passes and penalties (he didn't win himself)?
It's just so factually false that you've exposed yourself as extremely biased in your desperation to hype one player and undersell the other. Go and check again (assists, who won penalties, etc) and you'll see you've lied more than once.
I actually rate Pogba a lot, but I can acknowledge that there's another very special creative player who has joined and lifted the team so much so that the team is a more attractive prospect.
So Paul's agent is pushing for an exit up till January and the team has been in dire straights, you correctly point out that the team improved. Which "signings" did we make in January then? And even if you refer to the cumulative effect of the collection of all signings made for the season, Bruno counts right? The fact you can't escape is that his purchase was the one that visibly elevated us from a performance and results perspective.
You say he's still our difference maker, but now he has help? Yes! He has help as there's another creative difference maker in the team. Why does it have to be one or the other with some folks?
Some clueless posters spouting garbage by the looks of it.Just stepped into this thread, what the hell is going on hahah
Pogba is the bestest and he is also the rubbishest. As always balance is dead in a thread involving any of our players.Just stepped into this thread, what the hell is going on hahah
I think Pogba will always struggle to put a consistent 90 minutes together when it becomes a topic every time someone takes the ball off of him or he misplaces a pass. I’ve seen MOTM games get broken down into ‘great first 30-35 minutes, but then poor spell before half time. Better in the second half.’ Have you ever seen a single other player given a by-the-minute post-match assessment? If that was done for Bruno, Kevin De Bruyne or any other player, it would suddenly be revealed that they are not ‘consistent for 90 mins.’ Ever.We will be a far better team once he leaves. This is like the Coutinho with Liverpool situation except he hasn't hit the heights of the Brazilian.
He's been here for four seasons now and we're at the stage where what we've seen is what we get with Pogba. I've never seen a top player that needed so many excuses for why he hasn't been able to perform at a top level consistently. His issue is that he's just not dependable, central midfielders are usually your most reliable players. Keane and Scholes might not be 9/10 each week but you can be sure they would give you a 7/10 at the very least most games. I don't even have to use the greats as examples. A player like Wijnaldum is not close to being as good as Pogba but he's a dependable, you know each week what he'll bring and that is what you want from your CMs.
Pogba struggles to put consistent 90 minutes let alone a whole season and it's a big problem. When he's at his best, he's a top 3 CM in the world but the volatility in his performances make him unreliable.
Do you support Man United or just Pogba?Honeymoon period, that is correct and after the break he was actually less effective as teams started to close him down much sooner. Watch next season when teams are at full flow and Rashford starts taking the penalties again all of these hyped up stats will subside and team as a whole will perform much better.
Fancy talking about lazy tag when you have just come in to this thread with an untrue media narrative; the only game changing difference Fernandes made post lockdown was to score penalties that he did not win himself or to make a simple pass to a player right in front of him after someone has made the more incisive pass between the lines to him. Cannot wait for this overhyping to dissipate.
If Paul stays which is not a given has nothing to do with Fernandes and more to do with the way the team has improved with different signings coming in. He still our difference maker but now he has a bit more help.
Nice try at continuing that myth mate but from the time he left us a boy until today Paul has always been the star on each of his teams and that is something that is decided by talent level not what the fans think. Fernandes will never be the main anything[except pk taker], once Paul is in the same team, time for prejudiced 'fans' to accept that and support their player. Their is a reason why Paul has rival teams after him and Fernandes does not.
This formation does not suit Paul or our team and the sooner we change to a 4:3:3 the better. Why not make the most of Paul's attacking ability when he along with Anthony are our most talented players, makes no sense and I cannot see him accepting that deep role for long.
I do agree that Pogba gets micro-analysed like no other player but that happens because of how great people say he is. Top players prove their worth on the pitch and its obvious to both rivals and fans alike. The same way his detractors break down his game is the same way his OTT supporters cling on to the good parts of his game too. You don't find City fans arguing with rivals about why KDB is world class, there's no need to because we all know he is. In Pogba's case there's so much debate because you have people trying to justify why he's this great midfielder while others are doing the exact opposite trying to say why he isn't.I think Pogba will always struggle to put a consistent 90 minutes together when it becomes a topic every time someone takes the ball off of him or he misplaces a pass. I’ve seen MOTM games get broken down into ‘great first 30-35 minutes, but then poor spell before half time. Better in the second half.’ Have you ever seen a single other player given a by-the-minute post-match assessment? If that was done for Bruno, Kevin De Bruyne or any other player, it would suddenly be revealed that they are not ‘consistent for 90 mins.’ Ever.
Just wanted to comment on that point because I’ve seen it so many times over the years, and it’s always one I found curious. Surely a player either has a poor game, alright game, or a good game? I’ve never seen this ‘let’s break it down into 5 minute segments and rate each one’ thing for any other player the way I see it about Pogba on Redcafe.
Paul Pogba was United’s best player last season, and one of the best players in England.I do agree that Pogba gets micro-analysed like no other player but that happens because of how great people say he is. Top players prove their worth on the pitch and its obvious to both rivals and fans alike. The same way his detractors break down his game is the same way his OTT supporters cling on to the good parts of his game too. You don't find City fans arguing with rivals about why KDB is world class, there's no need to because we all know he is. In Pogba's case there's so much debate because you have people trying to justify why he's this great midfielder while others are doing the exact opposite trying to say why he isn't.
This is Pogba's fault rather than anyone elses. He's yet to convince the footballing world of his ability on a consistent basis. While KDB or Bruno might also have inconsistent performances within a game, they've shown they have the ability to put a consistent season together and that's something Pogba hasn't done in four years here.
This./Paul Pogba was United’s best player last season, and one of the best players in England.
And Bruno hasn’t shown the ability to put a consistent season together anymore than Pogba has. There’s just a different narrative around them.
And of course, ‘Class on Grass!’This./
Vive la Pogba FC
He has 47 goals in his last 97 games as a AM and a lot as a no 8.. Thats a a strike rate that matches Martial and Rashford this season, spread over 3 seasons.This./
Vive la Pogba FC
Its up to the manager to fix that but as we all know I dont think he has the tactical knowledge to implent it. If he did we would have seen it by now.Haha, just saying it as I see it JP. The midfield is rubbish!
The shape is terrible, we are basically playing 2 in midfield and not 3 - and regularly end up 2 vs 3 in midfield - and then the two that we do have cannot press the ball and will be passed around easily if we came up against a City or good continental side. There’s also 15/20 yards between each player - Matic is hanging around the centre backs, Pogba is in the centre circle, Bruno is with the strikers. No scope for any interplay or triangles etc from our midfield 3.
As I said, I think the 3 are all top players, but they are not a unit at all, they are all just doing their own thing, and they will be exposed against an Arsenal, let alone City.
Unreliable or not there is no other player we could get this summer that is better than him. Move on.We will be a far better team once he leaves. This is like the Coutinho with Liverpool situation except he hasn't hit the heights of the Brazilian.
He's been here for four seasons now and we're at the stage where what we've seen is what we get with Pogba. I've never seen a top player that needed so many excuses for why he hasn't been able to perform at a top level consistently. His issue is that he's just not dependable, central midfielders are usually your most reliable players. Keane and Scholes might not be 9/10 each week but you can be sure they would give you a 7/10 at the very least most games. I don't even have to use the greats as examples. A player like Wijnaldum is not close to being as good as Pogba but he's a dependable, you know each week what he'll bring and that is what you want from your CMs.
Pogba struggles to put consistent 90 minutes let alone a whole season and it's a big problem. When he's at his best, he's a top 3 CM in the world but the volatility in his performances make him unreliable.
People like to say Pogba is rubbish just because he's pogba.I do agree that Pogba gets micro-analysed like no other player but that happens because of how great people say he is. Top players prove their worth on the pitch and its obvious to both rivals and fans alike. The same way his detractors break down his game is the same way his OTT supporters cling on to the good parts of his game too. You don't find City fans arguing with rivals about why KDB is world class, there's no need to because we all know he is. In Pogba's case there's so much debate because you have people trying to justify why he's this great midfielder while others are doing the exact opposite trying to say why he isn't.
This is Pogba's fault rather than anyone elses. He's yet to convince the footballing world of his ability on a consistent basis. While KDB or Bruno might also have inconsistent performances within a game, they've shown they have the ability to put a consistent season together and that's something Pogba hasn't done in four years here.
It’s a big problem.Its up to the manager to fix that but as we all know I dont think he has the tactical knowledge to implent it. If he did we would have seen it by now.
Bruno is really the problem as he doesnt drop back deep enough when we are building in our OWN half. Matic form a back three with our defense and suddenly you have pogba all alone surrounded by opposition waiting to receive a pass. Bruno needs to provide himself as another outlet for matic or our defenders to pas too. We will keep failing to beat a press if bruno doesn't do this. Its already bad enough that AWB is a dead end and the trigger for opposition to press.
It's hard to disagree with this but I think this issue is tactical not much of the players' fault. I don't know why we have to play Bruno that high and Matic that deep, with the work rate, pressing and comfort in possession exhibited by teams around us its suicidal.Haha, just saying it as I see it JP. The midfield is rubbish!
The shape is terrible, we are basically playing 2 in midfield and not 3 - and regularly end up 2 vs 3 in midfield - and then the two that we do have cannot press the ball and will be passed around easily if we came up against a City or good continental side. There’s also 15/20 yards between each player - Matic is hanging around the centre backs, Pogba is in the centre circle, Bruno is with the strikers. No scope for any interplay or triangles etc from our midfield 3.
As I said, I think the 3 are all top players, but they are not a unit at all, they are all just doing their own thing, and they will be exposed against an Arsenal, let alone City.
Pretty much. And I did say that the individuals are top players, it is more a system issue. I don’t think the trio works. At least not in its current format. In the current setup, Pogba has basically become the Herrera replacement, which I don’t think he can do.It's hard to disagree with this but I think this issue is tactical not much of the players' fault. I don't know why we have to play Bruno that high and Matic that deep, with the work rate, pressing and comfort in possession exhibited by teams around us its suicidal.
Pogba is an 8 and off the ball he tries to play as a 6½ it follows that if we are going to play a 4-2-3-1 then Bruno has to drop into midfield especially without the ball and during the initial phase of the build up.
I doubt we'd be able to play the Matic - Pogba - Bruno midfield against top teams and not get overrun in midfield. This is where we need a more robust DM than Matic given what we lose if we drop one of Pogba or Bruno and without signing that type of DM we will fail next season, top 4 is the best we could achieve even with Sancho.
Difficult to see how we can solve this without going for a Makalele type of DM, good as Matic is he is not suitable for a role that effectively carries two #10s. Overlooking this will be a monumental feck up and could ruin our season.Pretty much. And I did say that the individuals are top players, it is more a system issue. I don’t think the trio works. At least not in its current format. In the current setup, Pogba has basically become the Herrera replacement, which I don’t think he can do.
I think specsavers have an offer on and that you should take advantage of it.Paul Pogba was United’s best player last season, and one of the best players in England.
And Bruno hasn’t shown the ability to put a consistent season together anymore than Pogba has. There’s just a different narrative around them.
I won’t argue with you that a player voted in the PL team of the season was one of the PL best midfielders, and his team’s best player.I think specsavers have an offer on and that you should take advantage of it.
The fans and players voted for Shaw as our best player last season. Even if we go with the narrative that he's judged more harshly by the fans, are we saying his fellow teammates also don't appreciate him fully?Paul Pogba was United’s best player last season, and one of the best players in England.
And Bruno hasn’t shown the ability to put a consistent season together anymore than Pogba has. There’s just a different narrative around them.
Bruno was awful in his last 4 games. He’s had other average games that Pogba isn’t allowed to have, outside of that 4. And he played about 15 games in total, I don’t know what catalogue of consistency he has apparently built up in that time.The fans and players voted for Shaw as our best player last season. Even if we go with the narrative that he's judged more harshly by the fans, are we saying his fellow teammates also don't appreciate him fully?
Bruno is yet to have a full season with us but in the half season he's been with us he's been more consistent and impactful than Pogba has in four seasons. Bruno was awful in the last 4 games of the season and everyone admitted it. The difference between them is Bruno has afforded himself a cushion due to excellent consistent performances.
We don't necessarily need better. We need a more reliable CM and one that offers more balance to our team.Unreliable or not there is no other player we could get this summer that is better than him. Move on.
He's held to a different standard because people say he's a top/world class CM. It comes with the territory but it seems like some fans of Pogba just can't seem to understand that.People like to say Pogba is rubbish just because he's pogba.
In the year he was our top scorer and assister people were saying he's rubbish and should be sold. How does that make any sense?
The sensible ones know he's a top player, but when KDB was having a rough patch nobody even mentions it.
Pogba is definitely held to a different standard by pundits, opposition fans and more imporantly our own.
The only people who seem to judge him fairly are actual footballers and coaches/managers.
Well his fellow contemporaries in the league who watch him up close and personal every week voted him into the best XI for the season and he quite literally led the team in every major statistical category.I think specsavers have an offer on and that you should take advantage of it.
Guaranteed the same lot would complain about a lack of quality and ambition in the squad if he were tearing it up somewhere in Spain or back in Italy after leaving usSometimes we don’t realised what an absolute star and quality player we have on our hands. Use him properly and we will receive the rewards. You lot better treasure him while he’s still here. The recently concluded season without him playing was absolute dross until Bruno came in and provided abit of spark
Bruno has played 20 games for us and he's getting no less than 8/10 based on his performances.Bruno was awful in his last 4 games. He’s had other average games that Pogba isn’t allowed to have, outside of that 4. And he played about 15 games in total, I don’t know what catalogue of consistency he has apparently built up in that time.
Also, if you want to take the player’s opinion as gospel, it is clear they think he’s a lot better than some blinkered interneter does. And he was voted in the team of the season by the whole country, not just his mates at the club.