Ed Woodward | Groundhog Day Edition

[TheLord]

Net spending: last 5 years


1. Man City – £601.98m
2. Man Utd – £484.88m
3. Arsenal – £267.88m
4. Everton – £225.42m
5. Brighton – £214.86m
6. Wolves – £205.22m
7. West Ham – £187.49m
8. Bournemouth – £176.95m
9. Aston Villa – £166.65m
10. Watford – £125.69m
11. Leicester City – £124.83m
12. Newcastle – £122.91m
13. Chelsea – £115.57m
14. Liverpool – £107.58m

These are damning stats.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Maybe the following is wishful thinking on my part but more and more I think about it, the more I believe we are just waiting for Edwin to come in.

He has stated in the past he would and apparently on very good terms with Ed. Also, more of a Bayern model being introduced to our club, whereby a lot of the ex players are more involved in the running of the club.

absolute fiction

has it ever occurred to anyone that a DOF wold have no effect on whether the Glazers spend on Sancho or not. He will be put in the same position as EW. He’ll just be told, like everyone before him that there is no money to buy this player that you need. Ed is the messenger boy. Yes, we know, in theory, a DOF will recruit players to suit the “United way” but then we’ll appoint a manager who doesn’t like/suit these same players. Just like Jose didn’t like Martial, Pogba and Ole doesn’t like Lukaku/Sanchez etc

 

[Adnan]

absolute fiction

has it ever occurred to anyone that a DOF wold have no effect on whether the Glazers spend on Sancho or not. He will be put in the same position as EW. He’ll just be told, like everyone before him that there is no money to buy this player that you need. Ed is the messenger boy. Yes, we know, in theory, a DOF will recruit players to suit the “United way” but then we’ll appoint a manager who doesn’t like/suit these same players. Just like Jose didn’t like Martial, Pogba and Ole doesn’t like Lukaku/Sanchez etc

Why not let the DoF have a significant input into selecting the head coach? If we're to have a head of football operations then it makes sense to let him select the trainer/coach.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Why not let the DoF have a significant input into selecting head coach? If we're to have a head of football operations then it makes sense to let him select the trainer/coach.

oh it makes sense mate, but the owners are not going to give somebody who is football-motivated, the power to hire and fire when their errand boy is there to do it with $$$$$$$$$ as his motivation. All they are interested in is profit and equity in the club.

 

[romufc]

oh it makes sense mate, but the owners are not going to give somebody who is football-motivated, the power to hire and fire when their errand boy is there to do it with $$$$$$$$$ as his motivation. All they are interested in is profit and equity in the club.

This is it. The reason the club does not have a DoF is because the owners will be found out. Ed is a commercial man so it works well for the Glazers. If we hired a football man, they would want to win titles, which is not the model of this business.

Manchester United can no longer be called a football club, we are a business entity.

Getting top 4 = £100m odd more revenue. - if we spend £100m in transfers, then there is no advantage of us getting top 4 for the owners, their profits will take a hit.

 

[red thru&thru]

absolute fiction

has it ever occurred to anyone that a DOF wold have no effect on whether the Glazers spend on Sancho or not. He will be put in the same position as EW. He’ll just be told, like everyone before him that there is no money to buy this player that you need. Ed is the messenger boy. Yes, we know, in theory, a DOF will recruit players to suit the “United way” but then we’ll appoint a manager who doesn’t like/suit these same players. Just like Jose didn’t like Martial, Pogba and Ole doesn’t like Lukaku/Sanchez etc

Well of course the DoF would have an impact on the club. The role is more than just spending money on Sancho.

If a Monchi, Rangnick, Campos etc were given the £1.2b Ed has spent, I can guarantee they would have more success than Ed.

 

[red thru&thru]

This is it. The reason the club does not have a DoF is because the owners will be found out. Ed is a commercial man so it works well for the Glazers. If we hired a football man, they would want to win titles, which is not the model of this business.

Manchester United can no longer be called a football club, we are a business entity.

Getting top 4 = £100m odd more revenue. - if we spend £100m in transfers, then there is no advantage of us getting top 4 for the owners, their profits will take a hit.

So why have they spent £1.2b on players since 2013?

 

[romufc]

So why have they spent £1.2b on players since 2013?

To get into the CL.

 

[Wumminator]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

That’s literally never happened.

 

[red thru&thru]

To get into the CL.

So they spent £1.2b to be in top 4 but purposely stopped at winning the league?

 

[Wumminator]

Net spending: last 5 years


1. Man City – £601.98m
2. Man Utd – £484.88m
3. Arsenal – £267.88m
4. Everton – £225.42m
5. Brighton – £214.86m
6. Wolves – £205.22m
7. West Ham – £187.49m
8. Bournemouth – £176.95m
9. Aston Villa – £166.65m
10. Watford – £125.69m
11. Leicester City – £124.83m
12. Newcastle – £122.91m
13. Chelsea – £115.57m
14. Liverpool – £107.58m

These are damning stats.

Yep.

Absolutely horrendous stats there. A lot of that can be blamed on the managers making awful signings.

 

[romufc]

So they spent £1.2b to be in top 4 but purposely stopped at winning the league?

If you look at it, LVG for backed then it stopped. Jose got backed then it stopped as soon as CL was obtained.

Same with Ole, CL and then there are signs that he wont be backed.

We spend alot of money to react when we are 6th, so we have to spend alot to build back up, we look like we are building and there is a halt.. next season again if we finish 6th they'll want to spend money to get back into top 4 with a new manager.

It's not like we cannot see what is going to happen.. Ole is 6th in November/ December sacked due to fan pressure and a new manager appointed, brings 2/3 of his players in the summer.

 

[Wumminator]

If you look at it, LVG for backed then it stopped. Jose got backed then it stopped as soon as CL was obtained.

Same with Ole, CL and then there are signs that he wont be backed.

We spend alot of money to react when we are 6th, so we have to spend alot to build back up, we look like we are building and there is a halt.. next season again if we finish 6th they'll want to spend money to get back into top 4 with a new manager.

It's not like we cannot see what is going to happen.. Ole is 6th in November/ December sacked due to fan pressure and a new manager appointed, brings 2/3 of his players in the summer.

There are no signs that Ole won’t be backed.

Mourinho signed Lukaku, Lindelof, Matic and Sanchez the year after he got CL.

LVG signed Martial, Depay and Schniderlin.

 

[Matriac]

So they spent £1.2b to be in top 4 but purposely stopped at winning the league?

There isn't a huge gap of difference in money to be made from 1st to top4 as long as you are an already established brand like we are.

Now I don't personally buy that Glazers don't care about winning, I bet they would love to. But I believe they will never overpay to have it happen. Any investment from their side is to retain our position in Europe, to be in QF or better, and then make "sound" investments to try and bring us to the top.

This can potentially work better with a more patient manager like Ole, compared to Mou. But it's also no guarantee for success when our opponents are investing more heavily even in top 4.

I don't like that it is this way, but it's what makes sense when our club is run as a business first.

I still think they consider Jadon to be a potential sound investment, but they want it on better terms for it to be a safer bet for them.

 

[romufc]

There are no signs that Ole won’t be backed.

Are there signs that Ole will be backed?

 

[red thru&thru]

If you look at it, LVG for backed then it stopped. Jose got backed then it stopped as soon as CL was obtained.

Same with Ole, CL and then there are signs that he wont be backed.

We spend alot of money to react when we are 6th, so we have to spend alot to build back up, we look like we are building and there is a halt.. next season again if we finish 6th they'll want to spend money to get back into top 4 with a new manager.

It's not like we cannot see what is going to happen.. Ole is 6th in November/ December sacked due to fan pressure and a new manager appointed, brings 2/3 of his players in the summer.

Lvg's last season...

Anthony Martial
Morgan Schneiderlin
Bastian Schweinsteiger
Memphis Depay
Matteo Darmian

Roughly £100m spent.

Clearly see Jose was trying spend silly by selling the likes of Martial etc. He went into a sulk.

 

[Wumminator]

Are there signs that Ole will be backed?

There are literally no signs of anything. As there is still plenty of time left for the season to start.

I wish these posters would just come out and say what they’re thinking. Stop fecking behind net spend and all that shit and say. “It’s not fair I want a lot of shiny new players and I’m not getting them.”

 

[red thru&thru]

There isn't a huge gap of difference in money to be made from 1st to top4 as long as you are an already established brand like we are.

Now I don't personally buy that Glazers don't care about winning, I bet they would love to. But I believe they will never overpay to have it happen. Any investment from their side is to retain our position in Europe, to be in QF or better, and then make "sound" investments to try and bring us to the top.

This can potentially work better with a more patient manager like Ole, compared to Mou. But it's also no guarantee for success when our opponents are investing more heavily even in top 4.

I don't like that it is this way, but it's what makes sense when our club is run as a business first.

I still think they consider Jadon to be a potential sound investment, but they want it on better terms for it to be a safer bet for them.

I agree. And by the way, the club should be run as a sound investment. It always was even before Glazers. That is why they were doing well being on the stock market. People seem to forget this.

 

[red thru&thru]

There are literally no signs of anything. As there is still plenty of time left for the season to start.

I wish these posters would just come out and say what they’re thinking. Stop fecking behind net spend and all that shit and say. “It’s not fair I want a lot of shiny new players and I’m not getting them.”

Hahaha, bang on.

 

[romufc]

There are literally no signs of anything. As there is still plenty of time left for the season to start.

I wish these posters would just come out and say what they’re thinking. Stop fecking behind net spend and all that shit and say. “It’s not fair I want a lot of shiny new players and I’m not getting them.”

I don't want alot of players actually. I know people have different opinions and all but I would like 2 signings. A RW and either a backup LB / CB / CDM.

I understand that you cannot sign all 4 in one window, hence 2 should improve us.

 

[red thru&thru]

The frugal spending has kept all employees at the club in a job. I know it won't affect many in here but the club should and have done the right thing with their spending.

But like I've said, £1.2b should have been enough to get us better results on the pitch. Glazers have messed up by not appointing the correct football people sooner.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Surely there'll be some news soon.

 

[Matriac]

The frugal spending has kept all employees at the club in a job. I know it won't affect many in here but the club should and have done the right thing with their spending.

But like I've said, £1.2b should have been enough to get us better results on the pitch. Glazers have messed up by not appointing the correct football people sooner.

I believe they realize this, and it's why we've since 2018(?) have had this transfer veto committee, where Head Scout, CEO, Manager and some others can veto a transfer if it seems to be the wrong direction for the club. Before that we seemed to have more blind trust in the manager alone.

Now this might not be enough football competency in the long term, but I believe it has been a step in the right direction at least.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

Glazers have also spent £1.2b on transfers, post saf. The net spend is £900m.

Imagine them not taking another £1.2bn from the club. 1.2bn!!!!!

 

[red thru&thru]

I believe they realize this, and it's why we've since 2018(?) have had this transfer veto committee, where Head Scout, CEO, Manager and some others can veto a transfer if it seems to be the wrong direction for the club. Before that we seemed to have more blind trust in the manager alone.

Now this might not be enough football competency in the long term, but I believe it has been a step in the right direction at least.

Absolutely agree. In the long run, the short sight post saf, cost them more than was needed.

 

[red thru&thru]

Imagine them not taking another £1.2bn from the club. 1.2bn!!!!!

You do realise Glazers have also doubled the clubs revenue since they took over?

Also, club was paying dividends before the Glazers took over them.

 

[romufc]

Lvg's last season...

Anthony Martial
Morgan Schneiderlin
Bastian Schweinsteiger
Memphis Depay
Matteo Darmian

Roughly £100m spent.

Clearly see Jose was trying spend silly by selling the likes of Martial etc. He went into a sulk.

Out of those.. only Martial is at the club.

We will spend money but we will do it in dribs. We clearly do not spend well.

Something needs to change on how business is carried out.

 

[romufc]

You do realise Glazers have also doubled the clubs revenue since they took over?

Also, club was paying dividends before the Glazers took over them.

No one is disputing their ability to make commercial deals, the problem is we need to have the same focus on the football elements too.

They have made great commercial decisions, imagine where we would be with great footballing decisions?

EDIT: PS The glazers cannot take all the credit for the revenue doubling... TV money has increased considerably... which has nothing to do with the glazers.

 

[Matriac]

Out of those.. only Martial is at the club.

We will spend money but we will do it in dribs. We clearly do not spend well.

Something needs to change on how business is carried out.

It already has since summer 2018. At least it looks that way to me.
They can still improve of course, and I'm sure they will.

 

[red thru&thru]

Out of those.. only Martial is at the club.

We will spend money but we will do it in dribs. We clearly do not spend well.

Something needs to change on how business is carried out.

But the original argument was that he was not given any investment, which he was.

And agree, something needed to change on the front of transfer business. I believe this is now happening. It's easy to go and spend money that isn't needed. Lfc did the same last year and won the league. Spurs the year before and reached CL.

 

[romufc]

It already has since summer 2018. At least it looks that way to me.
They can still improve of course, and I'm sure they will.

What has changed? over pay and take ages to negotiate?

 

[Matriac]

What has changed? over pay and take ages to negotiate?

We no longer near blindly trust the manager alone on which players to buy and sell. It's a more collective decision to ensure more continuity if the one person making the decisions leaves/gets fired.

 

[NinjaFletch]

There are literally no signs of anything. As there is still plenty of time left for the season to start.

I wish these posters would just come out and say what they’re thinking. Stop fecking behind net spend and all that shit and say. “It’s not fair I want a lot of shiny new players and I’m not getting them.”

I appreciate your optimism but I can't help be depressed looking at teams like that Bayern side last night and thinking how big the gulf still is.

Ultimately, everyone's on the same page on wanting United back at the top level and demanding 'shiny new players' is a pretty important part of closing that gap, not just spoilt fans whinging for the sake of it.

 

[laughtersassassin]

But the original argument was that he was not given any investment, which he was.

And agree, something needed to change on the front of transfer business. I believe this is now happening. It's easy to go and spend money that isn't needed. Lfc did the same last year and won the league. Spurs the year before and reached CL.

He lost a lot of players too though. Di Maria, RVP etc

 

[red thru&thru]

What has changed? over pay and take ages to negotiate?

How many signings in Ed's time before this can you say were a success in its first year? Martial.

Ole's first window you can say all of his signings have been a success, with only James questionable, but this signing was always for the long term.

 

[red thru&thru]

He lost a lot of players too though. Di Maria, RVP etc

The argument was about the manager being backed and he was.

Also the players you mention were lvg's choices to leave.

 

[M4YON]

I appreciate your optimism but I can't help be depressed looking at teams like that Bayern side last night and thinking how big the gulf still is.

Ultimately, everyone's on the same page on wanting United back at the top level and demanding 'shiny new players' is a pretty important part of closing that gap, not just spoilt fans whinging for the sake of it.

The critical part is ensuring those 'shiny new players' are

A) Joining United for the right reasons and aren't entirely motivated by a bigger pay packet.

B) Up to standard in terms of quality and improving on what we already have whether that be a Starting XI player or a squad player.

I think these are the new criterias that have now been introduced under Ole particularly A and its working fantastically so far.

The question is if the club are going to continue to allow him to do this on players that cost £108 million, i think from what we've seen so far this summer the answer is no.

 

[romufc]

How many signings in Ed's time before this can you say were a success in its first year? Martial.

Ole's first window you can say all of his signings have been a success, with only James questionable, but this signing was always for the long term.

Exactly, only Martial.

I would say yes, all of his have been a success which is why I am trying to say, we need someone at the club who can carry out this role and not leave it to the manager.

The manager shouldn't have to call up to find out about players, our scouts and the structure should be targeting players that suit the club and the team. This way you can have a consistent signings.

 

[red thru&thru]

Exactly, only Martial.

I would say yes, all of his have been a success which is why I am trying to say, we need someone at the club who can carry out this role and not leave it to the manager.

The manager shouldn't have to call up to find out about players, our scouts and the structure should be targeting players that suit the club and the team. This way you can have a consistent signings.

Agreed. But I fear they are going down the Saf model for now, which is fine for the moment but we could come unstuck.

What I mean is, Ole seems to be the man doing all the player recruitment analysis etc, whilst the coaches are left to coach the team. Under the 3 previous managers, I feel they were trying to do everything, including coaching in training.

 

[Russky14]

Forget Sancho games. Grealiish, Alcantara or Coman & a centre back.