In hindsight, was Wayne Rooney right to question the club’s ambitions?

[Ralph1386]

I still hold reservations over the fact that he chose to do it on a day where we had a CL game to play.

But in hindsight, has he been proven right over the years by questioning the club’s ambitions in the transfer market?

(Couldn’t find a thread on this but if there already is one, apologies)

 

[fps]

Yes.

 

[Falcow]

We have spent as much as anyone since and broken world transfers along the way. So no. He was doing that out of self interest.

 

[lilcurt]

I still hold reservations over the fact that he chose to do it on a day where we had a CL game to play.

But in hindsight, has he been proven right over the years by questioning the club’s ambitions in the transfer market?

(Couldn’t find a thread on this but if there already is one, apologies)

He probably was right but at the time we didn't know how dire it would get and he probably did do it prematurely. He then ironically stayed long after his expiry date and didn't rush out when it was clear he wasn't up to the task.

I don't think you can even question our ambition at this point. Questing it implies it can somehow be debated either way, there is no debate to be had. We simply do not have ambition to return to the top in Europe, let alone the league.

 

[Offside]

We’ve spent enough since then to build 2 separate title winning teams.

 

[lilcurt]

We have spent as much as anyone since and broken world transfers along the way. So no. He was doing that out of self interest.

Spend should be seen as relative to income not just the number spent. If you think where we were when Ronaldo left as a club and where we are now, it's hard to believe.

 

[Denis79]

He was right back then but since Moyes departure we have invested heavily. We were outspent by every other top team between 2005 (Glazer takeover) and 2014.

 

[Mickeza]

We’ve spent enough since then to build 2 separate title winning teams.

We had to spend that much due to the gradual decline of the squad from 2009 onwards which was due to no value in the market financing Glazer debt. Slightly ironic really - when we had the infrastructure in place (Fergie and his contacts) to spend we couldn’t and then when he left and we started to spend we had no infrastructure and totally wasted it on absolute dirge. A bit like now really - everyone we’re linked with seems sensible but we aren’t going to back the manager.

 

[Amadaeus]

We have spent as much as anyone since and broken world transfers along the way. So no. He was doing that out of self interest.

Yea, it is unbelievable that fans don’t recognize this. Give the the type of money we spent to a top manager like Klopp, Pep, Pochettino, and evening to a lesser extent Ancellotti, Conte, And Nagelsman, they will win the champions league. Jose won the Europa league and came in second due to the serious investment we made even though he no longer at the top of his game. Can you imagine what a top manager could do with our investment?? We have had really bad judgement in chosen the right manager, so I m not surprised we are not reaching the heights of where United should be.

 

[Offside]

We had to spend that much due to the gradual decline of the squad from 2009 onwards which was due to no value in the market financing Glazer debt. Slightly ironic really - when we had the infrastructure in place (Fergie and his contacts) to spend we couldn’t and then when he left and we started to spend we had no infrastructure and totally wasted it on absolute dirge. A bit like now really - everyone we’re linked with seems sensible but we aren’t going to back the manager.

I can agree with this to some extent. What I found bizarre was the neglect of the midfield.

We still lost the league on GD in 2012 then went and bought the best player in the league. Can’t really question the ambition there.

 

[He'sRaldo]

It's an interesting discussion, because on the one hand I do agree that we've spent fortunes, but on the other hand if we look at other teams which show ambition, we realize it's not all about spending.

If we were desperate, truly desperate to get the title and CL back in our hands, we'd make internal changes which are aside from spending. The fact that we seem to be so slow in doing so means to me that we're still comfortable resting on our laurels.

 

[TheNewEra]

Yes he was, and I think we knew it at the time

 

[Mickeza]

I can agree with this to some extent. What I found bizarre was the neglect of the midfield.

We still lost the league on GD in 2012 then went and bought the best player in the league. Can’t really question the ambition there.

Only because RVP was in the last year of his contract. It was a sticky plaster on a heavily declining squad. We had a negative net spend under the Glazers until Fergie went. The job he did post Ronaldo was insane really. I still think we might have won the Champions League if Nani hadn’t been wrongly sent off. Doing a league and CL double with that squad would have been a miracle

 

[rcoobc]

In private - Yes
In public - No

 

[ravi2]

Rooney was 100% correct, SAF's brilliance propelled that team to the titles that a lesser coach could not have achieved with them.

 

[Bebestation]

To be honest as amazing SAF was - we literally spent all his career on the class of 92.

So I can see why Rooney would have seen that even earlier.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

We have spent as much as anyone since and broken world transfers along the way. So no. He was doing that out of self interest.

Most of that was after SAF retired though. We definitely weren't spending like crazy at the time.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Yes, i was annoyed at him at the time. But in hindsight we was definaltey right.

 

[Jim Beam]

He was after the big feckin contract, ambitions was always an excuse. Still baffled that people think that was his main motive. Why didn't he made a sound after the contract?

Ironically, he was the one to be replaced with van Persie.

 

[clarkydaz]

the timing of it was a real bonehead move, may have been less wrath if he played it different

 

[L1nk]

Yes he was correct, but I think this is only correct with hindsight, because at the time I don't think we realised how it was going to fully go.

There was a really weird time where we were just adamant not to sign a Central Midfielder despite the obvious need for maybe 2, instead we were playing Rafael etc there, it was crazy as hell. I remember on this forum we were absolutelysaying why the hell aren't we signing a CM??

 

[united_99]

Yea, it is unbelievable that fans don’t recognize this. Give the the type of money we spent to a top manager like Klopp, Pep, Pochettino, and evening to a lesser extent Ancellotti, Conte, And Nagelsman, they will win the champions league. Jose won the Europa league and came in second due to the serious investment we made even though he no longer at the top of his game. Can you imagine what a top manager could do with our investment?? We have had really bad judgement in chosen the right manager, so I m not surprised we are not reaching the heights of where United should be.

Only you could put Poch into the same category as Klopp and Pep And now don’t tell me Poch would be as good if he had the money - but I am sure you will do exactly that.

 

[2 man midfield]

I think so, I mean he was there when Ronaldo and Tevez walked out one door and Owen and Obertan came in the other. People say he’s daft but his eyes work.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

The answer is clear.

Have to mention that he didn't have problem with LVG's first season and Mourinho's first two seasons. I think he also don't have problem with RVP and Kagawa. The other seasons are reasonably spot-on.

 

[Scarecrow]

I thought he was right at the time. After Ronaldo was sold we bought Valencia, Diouf, Owen, Chicharito, Bebe, Smalling. Highest price paid 18 million.

Didn't Keane feel the same after the treble? That we got complacent and didn't invest enough. He was right. Have to keep improving even at the top.

 

[elnorte]

Maybe was right be accident.

 

[Amadaeus]

Only you could put Poch into the same category as Klopp and Pep And now don’t tell me Poch would be as good if he had the money - but I am sure you will do exactly that.

Klopp and Pep wouldn’t be as successful as they were if they only managed club at the level of Southampton, Spurs and Espaynol. Poch has overachieved at that level and if he can do it at such a low level, then it is a no brained that he could do it at the highest level with club with a much higher ambition. Last season, Spurs was celebrating getting into Europa league . That is how far they have fallen already.

 

[Jim Beam]

Yea, it is unbelievable that fans don’t recognize this. Give the the type of money we spent to a top manager like Klopp, Pep, Pochettino, and evening to a lesser extent Ancellotti, Conte, And Nagelsman, they will win the champions league. Jose won the Europa league and came in second due to the serious investment we made even though he no longer at the top of his game. Can you imagine what a top manager could do with our investment?? We have had really bad judgement in chosen the right manager, so I m not surprised we are not reaching the heights of where United should be.

Only 25,00 $ USD!

 

[Adnan]

He was right.

Post SAF we did spend but that was mostly due to us trying to buy a new defence and midfield after years of neglect. And in the present time we need to spend to catch up to teams who are significantly ahead of us due to our needs being greater than City or Liverpool's. We can't say oh look, they haven't spent much in the window (Liverpool&City) and give the board a pass because the onus is on us to take the initiative and bring in the required players if we want to close the gap. But currently it seems those clubs are making moves to get further ahead of us. I just hope we can sign a few quality players in the time remaining in the window because otherwise it'll be a very long season with Ole possibly losing his job by the end of it.

 

[Member 90887]

Com'on people, don't rewrite history. He did that because he was after another contract and more money otherwise he would have done that privately.

 

[BlueHaze]

Klopp and Pep wouldn’t be as successful as they were if they only managed club at the level of Southampton, Spurs and Espaynol. Poch has overachieved at that level and if he can do it at such a low level, then it is a no brained that he could do it at the highest level with club with a much higher ambition. Last season, Spurs was celebrating getting into Europa league . That is how far they have fallen already.

Klopp was pretty damn succesful at Dortmund so that literally kills your argument right there. They've not even been close to winning the league since he left and it could be argued offensively they have even better players now. Poch ain't even close to Klopp.

 

[Jim Beam]

He was right.

Post SAF we did spend but that was mostly due to us trying to buy a new defence and midfield after years of neglect. And in the present time we need to spend to catch up to teams who are significantly ahead of us due to our needs being greater than City or Liverpool's. We can't say oh look, they haven't spent much in the window (Liverpool&City) and give the board a pass because the onus is on us to take the initiative and bring in the required players if we want to close the gap. But currently it seems those clubs are making moves to get further ahead of us. I just hope we can sign a few quality players in the time remaining in the window because otherwise it'll be a very long season with Ole possibly losing his job by the end of it.

He was right, but did he did it for the benefit of the club? Why didn't he say anything after, for example, the following year we signed Phil Jones, Ashley Young and brilliantly talented but hugely inexperienced GK.

 

[HabeasC]

Interesting question - as others have said, think he was ultimately right then as the board were happy to spend the bare minimum and rely on Fergie's brilliance to win titles. From a business perspective, can see why they would do this (why spend loads when you are continuing to win), but ultimately was a very short sighted approach.

However, since Fergie we have spent a fortune and we are where we are in many ways because we have spent that money so poorly and chosen managers so poorly. As @He'sRaldo said, the lack of ambition is more of an organisational rather than spending point now. Clearly the team in charge of transfers needs an overhaul. Some form of DoF should be considered for continuity between managers.

Perhaps the one shining light has been the successes of a number of academy players, but more investment in the academy should definitely be made to build on these.

 

[Scarecrow]

Rooney was a transfer muppet.

Rooney was unhappy about Cristiano Ronaldo’s departure to Real Madrid, unconvinced by the arrival of Chris Smalling and reluctant to stick around if City, two years into their Abu Dhabi ownership, were the future of English football. He was in the midst of new contract negotiations at the time and when he took part in Gary Neville’s Soccerbox on Sky Sports last year he made no bones about the fact he had openly questioned the manager.

“I was gutted when he (Ronaldo) left. I went in to see Alex Ferguson. I said to him, ‘What’s going on? We’ve sold Tevez, we’ve sold Ronaldo, who’s coming in?’ No disrespect, but we had bought Smalling not knowing whether (he was) good enough. If I was going to commit myself for another five years, I didn’t really want to be waiting to be part of Alex Ferguson building a team to get there in five years’ time.”

Rooney certainly had some front: he also asked Ferguson for an explanation about why United had not challenged Real Madrid for the signing of Mesut Ozil from Werder Bremen. “My reply was that it was none of his business,” Ferguson clarified in his book. “I told him it was his job to play and perform. My job was to pick the correct teams. And so far I had been getting it right.”

https://theathletic.co.uk/1643838/2020/03/04/wayne-rooney-alex-ferguson-derby-manchester-united/

 

[Pexbo]

Rooney was a transfer muppet.


https://theathletic.co.uk/1643838/2020/03/04/wayne-rooney-alex-ferguson-derby-manchester-united/

Mad really that Ruud made the same complaint 6/7 years before this when referring to Rooney and Ronaldo.

 

[Adnan]

He was right, but did he did it for the benefit of the club? Why didn't he say anything after, for example, the following year we signed Phil Jones, Ashley Young and brilliantly talented but hugely inexperienced GK.

He likely did it for his own benefit first of course. But it highlighted our passiveness in the market.

We signed a average winger in Ashley Young. Phil Jones was a highly rated young CB but that's as far as it went for him. And the keeper i've never rated myself and completely agree with Roy Keane's opinion on him. Now compare that to what City did whilst we sat back trotting the no value in the market line while they bought players unchallenged.

 

[King7Eric]

Whenever I read comments like Rooney was wrong to do it publicly, I often wonder how differently is a player supposed to do it? As I remember, news had first broken out that he has refused to sign a new contract, now that is a personal action ( refusing a new contract) that is becoming public due to the nature of the job. Next had come the questions why is he refusing to sign a contract? It was to this that his agent had put out the word that he did not believe the club was matching his ambition or whatever. But then if questions are being asked why you aren't signing, what other reason is he supposed to give?

For the record, I am not defending him or weighing in as to whether he was right or not, I simply wonder what do people expect an internationally recognized footballer to say when the whole world wants to know why he isn't signing a new contract? Especially as SAF had come out and said the next night that it is not a matter of money, because we can offer him as good a deal as anybody else (which we did in the end).

 

[Jim Beam]

We signed a average winger in Ashley Young. Phil Jones was a highly rated young CB but that's as far as it went for him.

Tbf, I was also delighted with Jones at that time. But, he was playing the card which he got, passiveness of the club, no investment, only to shut up after the contract. It doesn't hold any weight if you do so.

 

[patty123]

To be honest as amazing SAF was - we literally spent all his career on the class of 92.

You really do talk out you're arse. Beckham 8 yrs, Phil 10 as a bit part for the most, Butt 10 yrs and like Neville the back up, Gary of the 18 seasons since he made he EPL debut, he only played more than 24 epl games 7 times, AF was here for 26 yrs.

So there we have 2 players who were not even first team players for even half his tenure, so hardly depending on them now was he, just like the infamous myth of the 95/96 season, as the way some of our fans talk, its like we only won the double because of them that season when nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[RUCK4444]

Yes. I thought most agreed with the principle of what he did but just didn’t like the fact he flirted with City.

He was right, many could see the penny pinching going on with SAF making up for the lack of investment.

There’s nobody as influential or as good as he was in the current squad otherwise I would like them to do the same if this window finishes like this for us.