Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Greck

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Yeah and he’s delivered excellent returns on that investment. No complaints from vast majority of fans.
Wouldnt call it excellent. Jose spent 291m, came 2nd and won 2 trophies and was called a failure. All our previous managers now considered failures have matched or exceeded those returns (except moyes ofc)

Off to take a shower for saying anything nice about Jose
 

0161_UNITED

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Your charisma is like Ole.
Please, seek some help, mate. This is way beyond a forum discussion on Ole. You’ve done it two days in a row now. I could only hope someone would do the same for me. All the best and I hope you get it sorted.
 

Andi Latte

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Thanks for your reply. And its certainly not without some merit. Klopp is a great manager, more advanced than OGS right now, and I would love to have him leading our club. But we don't have him, and never will, so measuring up to his greatness is a moot point.

However there are a numbers of areas where I think you have vastly exaggerated his achievements.

Firstly, Klopp joined Liverpool in late 2015, after being courted, on a full contract, fully briefed on his exact task. Ole got a random call out of the blue in mid 2018, had only 48 hours to get to Manchester and was told he was appointed 'just for a few months and to only improve team and fan morale'. He only really had time to plan for his permanent job since May 2018. Klopp is now into his 5th year in the job whereas Ole has completed 1.5 seasons. So Klopp has had 3 more years to experiment, coach and mould his team according to his ideas.

Secondly, Klopp has brought in more than 25 first team squad level players into Liverpool at the cost of around £600m. He was also allowed to release over 30 'deadwood' first team squad level players. Some of those were players he bought, that didn't work out, and he was allowed to try again. Klopp didn't come up with his record breaking 1st XI at his first attempt, it took 4 years of trial and error. He has been allowed to totally change the entire squad so it fits his exact purposes, and credit to him, has produced an amazing team.

Thirdly, I really disagree with your assessment of the players Klopp signed. SAF thought Henderson was talented and scouted him, Milner is renowned world class water carrier, Robertson was very highly rated, Salah was loved at Roma, VVD and Alyson had many elite admirers, Redcafe had a lengthy discussion on Mane long before he joined. Sure, none of Klopp's signings were Galatico level like Varane, KdB or Kane, but all were known as good footballers and on the up. Klopp hasn't come close to 'doing a Leicester', which is what you are implying.

OGS inherited a completely disjointed and unbalanced squad. We still dont know the end result of this window but so far he has been allowed to bring in 4 or 5 players and managed to remove 7. In doing so, he has created a first XI that won the most points post lockdown, is capable of holding its own against all top 6 teams and is already one of the most prolific attacking units in world football. His managerial reputation was enough to attract players like Bruno, Maguire and hopefully Sancho to the club, and the vast majority of fans are very happy with his progress so far. our fans also recognise that our squad players are not good enough to rotate with the 1st XI and needs substantial overhaul.

Here's the thing: we all know all of this. All of it. But because some fans dislike Ole (I don't know why), they deliberately ignore it all, and make outlandish demands like Ole win the title now because ... well I'm really not sure why. Likewise OleOUT folk cant ever produce any quantitative facts that he has underperformed and so use unmeasurable and pretentious concepts like 'pattern of play' and blah blah as the rod to criticise him with.

In summary, Klopp is indeed a great manager but it has taken him plenty of cash, patience, trial and error to get to where he has. In comparative terms, Ole is ahead of where Klopp was after 1.5 seasons, and yet started from a more difficult place. But OleOUT wont ever admit his, for reasons they only know and instead indulge in moronic meltdowns every time he loses creating a toxic atmosphere. I mean it's now a meme that this thread gets bounced within seconds of Ole's team losing. I think that's a shame for them because they are missing out on alot of excitement and joy that fans who passionately support Ole are enjoying.
Fair enough, you're right in regards to Klopp's longer time at his club, as well as his mishits in the market, which he got to rectify.

Where you are exaggerating (as of course we all do to get across our point in some way or the other) is the fact that Ole found harder circumstances than Klopp when they respectively took over. I don't need to remind you that Klopp's first squad when he took over included the likes of Lallana, Joe Allen, Benteke, Moreno, Kolo Toure, Skrtel among others. Only Firmino, Henderson and Milner from the current lot were present. The squad was at least as disjointed and unbalanced as ours when Ole took over, their only saving grace being Coutinho, who the managed to rob Barcelona for .

Ole on the other hand at least had Martial, Rashford, DDG, Pogba and Lukaku at his disposal from the start (I know, many don't rate Rom, but he still was a relatively young, proven goalscorer). Imo that squad was far better than what Klopp had to make do with initially.

Anyway, I didn't really want to start another Klopp vs Ole debate, just you mentioned Liverpool and for Klopp, as much as I hate the guy, his is the first name that comes to mind when I hear top manager. Which is what Man Utd should have in charge and I just don't see Ole as such.

And for your other point, I really enjoy it when we perform well, I love it that we went 20 games or so unbeaten and I am really happy that our first team is super talented atm. It's just games like Palace that highlight the flaws in our managerial approach and I can't begrudge anyone who comes to vent on here afterwards, seeing that those flaws seem present since Ole took over and he just doesn't seem able to rectify them. It makes me furious as well and I don't really think any amount of signings will solve those problems unfortunately.

I'm not even really Ole out btw, I wish him well I just think for "leaening on the job" there's not enough actual learning going on.

EDIT: I almost forgot, regarding Klopp's spending: Ole got to spend 200m already, plus, and that often gets forgotten on here, he got Greenwood and Henderson for free. We're talking at least 100m on top here were we forced to buy them. Imo that should really be enough to at least not get embarrassed by Palace at home.
 
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Karlos PFC

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I understand about your point comparing Henderson et al to Pogba but do you really blame Ole for how shite Pogba has been?? Pogba isn’t good enough to make a difference in our team and doesn’t have the mental attributes to ‘carry’ the team like I think he should
Yeah I totally blame Ole for how shite Pogba is and how shit Bruno will eventually be. As I said in my previous post there should be attacking patterns that players can turn to when the have an off day. Ole is basing his game around individual brilliance, that can't last for long. Cause players at some point will be tired and they won't have the clear thinking what the hell to do with the ball. Everyone saw that happening after the restart in June after the Southampton game if I'm not mistaken.
 

Giggsyking

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I think the younger fans need to realise he’s working with both hands and one leg tied behind his back because of our shitehole board and owners. Maybe he isn’t the right manager but changing manager will not service ou long term problems. If any of the post 92 fans had gone through what the rest of us went through circa 86-91 they would realise that success takes time to build. We need to see this period of time through
I will not repeat what many here said about SAF beginning period, but you cant compare SAF to Ole. SAF managed a small club like Aberdeen to break the dominans of giants like Rangers and Celtic, and went all the way with this small club to win a european trophy against a european giant like Madrid. Everybody was excited by his arrival. He also showed in his second year that he can challenge for the title.
 

K Stand Knut

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Yeah I totally blame Ole for how shite Pogba is and how shit Bruno will eventually be. As I said in my previous post there should be attacking patterns that players can turn to when the have an off day. Ole is basing his game around individual brilliance, that can't last for long. Cause players at some point will be tired and they won't have the clear thinking what the hell to do with the ball. Everyone saw that happening after the restart in June after the Southampton game if I'm not mistaken.
that’s a stupid thing to say.
I’m going to make the assumption that you watch all United games? Have you seen Pogba and his passing? His lethargic approach? His inability to keep the ball?
None of them can be attributed to Ole. It’s just not being good enough at the game.
off days are fine. Off years are not and Pogba is currently on his 3rd off year
 

Withnail

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Please, seek some help, mate. This is way beyond a forum discussion on Ole. You’ve done it two days in a row now. I could only hope someone would do the same for me. All the best and I hope you get it sorted.
I don't agree with @Mainoldo on Ole.
However he has his opinion, which has never changed, and he can be on a wind up with some of his responses but I don't know where you're going with this.
 

Karlos PFC

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that’s a stupid thing to say.
I’m going to make the assumption that you watch all United games? Have you seen Pogba and his passing? His lethargic approach? His inability to keep the ball?
None of them can be attributed to Ole. It’s just not being good enough at the game.
off days are fine. Off years are not and Pogba is currently on his 3rd off year
Yeah I watch all United games, and thank God Buno came in January cause it was feeling like the Moyes season up to that point. Terrible football and excuses from Ole flying left, right and center.

That's what I'm trying to explain. That Pogba may be physically or mentally tired and when a player is like this you can't expect him to have a clear mind to see the move by another player. So there should be attacking patterns and automations. The Van Gaal era maybe was terrible football-wise but the players knew exactly where their teammates were and when they did their runs. There was a freaking plan, either good or bad. There would be a certain level of performance by the team and a clear plan whoever played. Why do we see a different player in Pogba with his national team?
 

K Stand Knut

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Yeah I watch all United games, and thank God Buno came in January cause it was feeling like the Moyes season up to that point. Terrible football and excuses from Ole flying left, right and center.

That's what I'm trying to explain. That Pogba may be physically or mentally tired and when a player is like this you can't expect him to have a clear mind to see the move by another player. So there should be attacking patterns and automations. The Van Gaal era maybe was terrible football-wise but the players knew exactly where their teammates were and when they did their runs. There was a freaking plan, either good or bad. There would be a certain level of performance by the team and a clear plan whoever played. Why do we see a different player in Pogba with his national team?
because he cares and wants to be there!!!
It’s simple, Pogba thought he’d get a move this summer and he (his agent) was constantly talking to the media and little comments coming out here, there and everywhere.
When it became clear nobody was going to be able to buy him, the new contract talks started again.
It’s going off track talking about Pogba in this thread and I hear what you’re saying about Ole tactic wise. I think I also agree but at the present moment, I think it would be unfair to get rid of him.
like the summer when we should have backed José and didn’t, we should be backing Ole now and it appears that we might not be, for whatever reason.
I do not think Ole will be here long-term (move than 5 years) but the question is would i get rid now and the answer is categorically NO!
comparing Ole to LVG is an awful comparison. Everyone knew where everyone was because they were all stood in front of the defences that amassed in front of us and players just passed sideways unchallenged
 

Verminator

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Oh come on. He has spent 270m on players since hes arrived that will be 400m if we sign Sancho, broke the world record for a defender already had one of the worlds best midfielders on top of world-class talent with the likes of Greenwood, hands and one leg tied behind his back.. people saying he shouldn't be expected to make top 4 if he don't get anymore transfers with a squad like that.. come on man, really?
Can you please give a breakdown of the £270m you say he has spent? Seems a little high, and definitely doesn't factor in players sold.
Also, it would require us to pay more than Dortmund wants, to go from 270 to 400.

"One of the world's best midfielders" Pogba? Yeah. He started 13 leagues games for us, in a very disjointed season.
 
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AC1689

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It all seems too much of a hit and hope style of management. Just throws a bunch of talented players on a pitch with no clue of how to set the play up, in the hope they play well.

It’s like there is literally zero system from zero coaching. But with a hope that individual brilliance from certain players will be enough to pull us through. Sometimes it comes together, albeit by luck rather than tactically, but a lot of the time it’s stale and tumescent whereby we can’t beat even mediocre opponents.

You cannot manage in this way and expect success and silverware I’m afraid.
 

FatherWolff

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Football doesn't work like that anymore. In the past you had time to put aside results for few seasons. Today you don't. Big clubs don't at least.
With lack of results you lose reputation. Without reputation you lose money. Without money you lose best players. Without money and good players in squad you can't buy new best players. Because best players choose clubs who can pay them and "promise" them titles. And then you become Arsenal or Everton. Today when you fall down, it is hard to get up.
Sounds like a recipe of being stupid! You either reach your goals or you don’t. But never go to sleep on a Monday thinking you will be a millionaire on Tuesday. Y
It all seems too much of a hit and hope style of management. Just throws a bunch of talented players on a pitch with no clue of how to set the play up, in the hope they play well.

It’s like there is literally zero system from zero coaching. But with a hope that individual brilliance from certain players will be enough to pull us through. Sometimes it comes together, albeit by luck rather than tactically, but a lot of the time it’s stale and tumescent whereby we can’t beat even mediocre opponents.

You cannot manage in this way and expect success and silverware I’m afraid.
Well. For me its not difficult to se how we want to play, press or build up. And it’s not difficult identifying missed and bad passes, missed runs and so on. But people see what they want to see, I guess.
 

Adisa

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Can't understand how others aren't seeing it.
If you think this man will compete with Pep and Klopp, you're being delusional.
Feck the results, look at the performances for large periods of his time here.
 

DRM

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It was obvious last season he wasn't the man for the job, heck I'd argue it was obvious after that shite run we had after psg two years ago.

Whatever, it doesn't really matter now. We're a mess of a club from the owners to the board to the management to the players. Dark dark times ahead for Manchester United football club!
 

NinjaFletch

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He'd really, really help himself getting Pogba off the pitch and giving Fred a run.

Arguably, Fred is a better player in the role that we are asking the two of them to play, but especially when Pogba is in this mood/this unfit it's like playing with 1 midfielder.
 

VP

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If the primary duty of the manager is to coach a team, Ole's failing miserably
 

VP89

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It's clear he's done feck all in coaching. Depending on just players attacking and working it out themselves.
 

Pyro19

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He was always a placeholder manager until someone who can actually manage takes over. This is the perfect time for going after someone like Pochettino or Nagelsman
 

DRM

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He was always a placeholder manager until someone who can actually manage takes over. This is the perfect time for going after someone like Pochettino or Nagelsman
But but but according to some people poch hasnt won anything :rolleyes:
 

Idxomer

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The lack of coaching has been visible for over 3 years now since Mourinho's 2nd season, something needs to be done and it won't happen under the current setup.
 

Roboc7

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He’s gone at some point this season, this is the sort of game that will determine whether it’s sooner rather than later.

These slumps and clueless performances have been too consistent under Ole and he can’t afford another one. We can’t expect him to compete for title but can’t excuse this either.
 

Yagami

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He was always a placeholder manager until someone who can actually manage takes over. This is the perfect time for going after someone like Pochettino or Nagelsman
Said at the end of last season we'd be wasting another year keeping him. After achieving CL, it was the perfect time to hire a progressive manager.

Instead, we keep him, waste another season, and probably miss out on CL footy again next year which probably hinders the new man in charge.
 

TommiHelm

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If Bruno and Pogba were subbed for VdB and Fred at half time here, I'd maybe just maybe regain a little bit of confidence, but he's so bloody stubborn, nothing is going to change. We'll probably scrape a win here somehow though, once 2-3 of our top quality attacking players decide to just switch on and be individually brilliant together for a couple of minutes.
 

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It worries me how he never sacrifices any of the attack for a bit more control in midfield
 

Levenstein

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Sack. Even if he is shit coach, he should at least push the team - the way he sits there is awful to watch.
Bad line-up choice also. Pogba should play higher up the pitch (should not play anywhere at the moment), there are much better options at the moment (Fred, Van de Beek). Let's see if he has the balls to drop him second half.
 

soapythecat

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Brighton showing what a well drilled side they are. Imagine if we had that kind of management with these players.
Ole is getting found out massively, as is the lack of quality in coaching staff.
Take out our penalties last season and this is exactly how we performed for large amounts yet we managed 3rd.
Shite to watch.
 

Desert Eagle

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If Bruno and Pogba were subbed for VdB and Fred at half time here, I'd maybe just maybe regain a little bit of confidence, but he's so bloody stubborn, nothing is going to change. We'll probably scrape a win here somehow though, once 2-3 of our top quality attacking players decide to just switch on and be individually brilliant together for a couple of minutes.
thats the best case scenario against brighton. Fluke a win. fecks sake
 
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