Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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united for life

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We all don’t have much to talk about today, we decided to argue whether we need to keep this thread or not :nervous:
 

Rightnr

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We all don’t have much to talk about today, we decided to argue whether we need to keep this thread or not :nervous:
It's not the first time. The top reds like to have this convo after every non-loss to show their loyalty to the cause.

They like to debate by shutting down debate because they know they'd lose the argument, apart from using their usual 'can't you see the progress', 'go support another club' or 'people disagreeing with me are stupid'.
 

Mainoldo

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It's a moderating team. Generally, all decisions are made mutually.
Stop explaining yourself to these insecure individuals.

Never in life have I seen so much talk about banning a thread which clearly has significance to how the fan base feel as a whole. There’s a big divide and this thread represents it.

When the atmosphere changes so will this.
 

Sultan

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Stop explaining yourself to these insecure individuals.

Never in life have I seen so much talk about banning a thread which clearly has significance to how the fan base feel as a whole. There’s a big divide and this thread represents it.

When the atmosphere changes so will this.
This is why I compared the thread to Brexit.
 

GwilDor

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Still troubled by this thread, but it is what it is.

Let’s keep the thread open, but how about closing and reopening the poll to see how many of us really want to sack Ole right now? It’s likely a lot of the yes votes are pretty old.
Since 22.december the following has happened:
Keep Ole: +34 votes
Sack Ole: - 17 votes
Total votes: + 17 votes
So, about 1.13% of the «sack Ole» voters have changed their vote the last 4 days. Change happens, but i’m sure some of the votes would never be changed even if we won the treble.
 

Saddy

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This was a massive statement match that we could have won and he starts James & a clearly injured Lindelof - if you replace these 2 players with Pogba & Tuanzebe IMO we win the match as we still had great options off the bench - Cavani, Greenwood and DVB.

Harvey Barnes was their main attacking threat and Lindelof was a dithering wreck at RB - he's been decent at CB but his mobility is clearly affected by his back and he needed a rest in this match.
 

Kag

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Nothing wrong with this thread staying up just like all the old ones of last few years. It works just as much in defense of him getting into a position of retaining his role than a call to sack him. It's right that it's a continuous discussion rather than new threads if we slip into poor form. Sensitive souls some of you.

Performances are starting to match results so if we can keep this up he'll be here next season.
It’s got less to do with being sensitive and more to do with not having a centralised place to discuss issues such as Ole starting James earlier today. Any opportunity for productive discussion is lost between two threads, one of which is seldom active.

It’s a no-brainer, really.
 
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Reddevildans

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We are starting to resemble Liverpool a year or two after Klopp took over. We are decent in midfield and attack at times but there are serious question marks in the defence. A lack of leadership, poor individual errors, naivety, and lapses of concentration plague the defence. Under any sort of pressure we give away stupid goals. Its incredibly frustrating. Ole is still making bizarre selections. Picking James today in front of Greenwood, mata and Vander beek was a huge mistake. You could see why he was useful against a naive Leeds team where there are huge gaps to run into but against a better Leicester team this wasnt going to work. Picking Lindelof at right back was also silly. How many times has he played there? surely Axel would have been a better and more natural fit there.

I would say we are 3 very good players short of seriously challenging for the premier league. A centre back, defensive midfielder and right attacking player. How good would we be if Martial, Bruno and Rashford had someone on their wavelength up the pitch. We have made progress, especially with the style of football played and signings, but we are still short. Im still to be convinced Ole's the right guy because of the in game management and team selections but should he seal top 4 he will remain in the job, but the problem will be Liverpool will win 20.
 

Leftback99

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Stop explaining yourself to these insecure individuals.

Never in life have I seen so much talk about banning a thread which clearly has significance to how the fan base feel as a whole. There’s a big divide and this thread represents it.

When the atmosphere changes so will this.
:lol: Says the person who has nearly twice as many posts as anyone else.
 

LJJT

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Can we not just call this the OGS thread and get rid of the vote now. Clearly it’s split between both sides of the fence with extreme agendas which swings one way or the other on the latest result and the odd sensible balanced approach in between. By the way I think how gutted we all are at dropping points today is yet another reason as to why we are progressing and the future is bright,
 

Leftback99

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There’s a point in your sentence I’m ignorant overlooking...:confused:
You confuse the minority who shout the loudest with 'how the fanbase feel as a whole'.

The top 3 posters (all OUT) represent more than 1 out of every 20 posts.
 

Mainoldo

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You confuse the minority who shout the loudest with 'how the fanbase feel as a whole'.
So this thread exists because so many people want Ole to stay they have to make it known in an Ole negative driven thread? Why not grow a 1k page of Let’a give Ole a new contract.

I bet it don’t last as long as this. There’s people who want him to stay, people who want him to go and people who just want to back there club. There’s no large majority either way.

Again. More insecurities...

What exactly does your last point prove?
 

Leftback99

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So this thread exists because so many people want Ole to stay they have to make it known in an Ole negative driven thread? Why not grow a 1k page of Let’a give Ole a new contract.

I bet it don’t last as long as this. There’s people who want him to stay, people who want him to go and people who just want to back there club. There’s no large majority either way.

Again. More insecurities...
Those two are the same. Hence the large majority.

Why would people post about something that they don't think needs changing? "I think things are OK as they are" isn't a talking point or something that needs voting on.
 

sammsky1

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Well sammsky there are many things a manager can do to create confident decision making. Make sure that in certain situations players only have one option to chose. Give the players clear instructions to;

a) pass the ball to your teammates preferred foot, if possible in front of his movement.

b) make movements so you make yourself available for passes

c) do not walk with the ball, do not walk without the ball when you are involved in a situation

d) don’t put your teammates in stressful situations with sloppy backward passes

e) don’t dribble in you own half

f) don’t pass the ball sloppy to the goalie when you’re inside the penalty area

g) only one touch when you have an opponent just behind you

This is only a few thing a manager can implement to his squad. Any decent manager tries to absolve his players from unnecessary decision making. Try to shorten any thinking process to a minimum. If a player only have one option it will give him time to focus on execution.

All these things are coachable and on the manager to implement. I do not put all the blame on Ole but it is his responsibility to address some of these problems if we repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over again.
What happens if a player does any of the things listed above anyway, despite being told not to or after months of ‘coaching’?

BTW the things you list would have been covered at youth level for players of this quality or calibre.
 

Andycoleno9

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Why we keep playing with 2 dmc? I get it that with McT and Fred our defence gets more protection. But we seriously lose creativity and possession. All this while having Pogba and VDB on the bench.

I understand to do this in bigger games but it basically became our first 11 setup. We start most of games with 2 dmc. Shouldn't be opposite? That teams like Leicester, Saints, Sheffield or Leipzig adapt their formation to us? Why we adapt our formation and style to weaker teams?
 

7even

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What happens if a player does any of the things listed above anyway, despite being told not to or after months of ‘coaching’?

BTW the things you list would have been covered at youth level for players of this quality or calibre.
You raise a difficult dilemma for any coach.

Different circumstances but NE Patriots HC (NFL) Bill Belichick and Chicago Bulls/LALakers (NBA) former coach Phil Jackson used their famous accountability method.

First mistake you get a shout, second you get a warning and third you’re out.

A football manager don’t have the same flexibility because you can only substitute three players but the principles should be the same. If I’m not mistaken Sir Alex was quite hard on players who repeatedly made the same unnecessary mistakes over and over again.

When Maguire and Lindelöf repeatedly pass the ball behind their teammates it’s ruin any sort of build up.It’s frustrating to see Pogba dribble as the last midfielder, Fred take a heavy touch or AWB get himself into trouble because of standing in the wrong position. Another huge problem is that most of our players except Bruno needs four five touches and 10-15 yards of strolling before they pass the ball.

When we press we don’t do it as a unit because some of our players bail out because they are lazy or maybe insecure.

I don’t think everything is on the manager but if we keep having these bad behavior over a longer period it’s definitely on the manager to correct.

From my perspective Ole needs to be more active on the sideline. Use his authority to stamp out things like I mention above. He needs to hold players accountable and let them pay when they not follow his instructions.

I know this isn’t easy with a limited squad, I don’t expect miracle and a manager can only do so much but if Ole wants to be a long term manager for United he needs to sort things out. Getting rid of Pogba can be a good statement. Maybe strip the armband of Maguire if he don’t improve his leadership and accountability.

The thing is Sammsky that all of us expect this squad sooner or later to take the next step and challenge Liverpool and City. New and better players is one method but Ole also needs to grow as a authority a little bit. This is not a heavy criticism on him just an observation and something I think is necessary for Ole to take the last step to be a elite manager.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I think the next step for us is to get better at suffocating teams and controlling games.

Once Klopp got his Liverpool team better at this, they became serious title contenders.

We're kind of like Liverpool 2017-2018 at the moment before their Van Dijk signing.

Excellent at counter attack football. Defense is leaky and we struggle at times taking control of games.

I think Ole has done really well since the CL exit.
 

Dante

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When Ole took over, the 'standard' was to reach the Europa League places.

Then he raised the bar and the 'standard' became sneaking into top 4.

Then he raised the bar again and it became about consolidating top 4 and getting into the knockout phases of the CL.

And now the 'standard' has been raised once more and is almost back to where it used to be during the SAF days.

It's encouraging that so many fans today expect us to go toe-to-toe with Liverpool at the top of the table, whilst beating second placed Leicester away from home and breaking PL records for consecutive wins along the way. I also think it's telling that Solksjaer is now getting criticised for the things he would have been praised for 12 months ago. The progression under him has been fantastic, and some of the pelters he's getting this weekend are a positive sign of how far he's brought us.

The bar for Ole has been gradually rising for the last few months. The fact our 'standards' are so high again tells you what a good job he's done to get us back somewhere near to the top. Even our transfer rumours are returning to being about building the best team in the league, rather than simply one that's good enough to do a job. The squad itself is also seriously being compared to some of Fergie's squads and the players are talking amongst themselves like Roy Keane at his most demanding:


There's still a way to go, of course. But the direction of travel and pace of progress has been good. The last thing we should be doing right now is replacing the manager. Every time the board does that, it's like hitting the reset button and going back 5 stages in the rebuild. Our momentum has to be maintained for as long as it's taking us on an upward trajectory.

Whether or not Ole is the man who can win us the next PL or CL is up for debate. But I think it's pretty clear that he's capable of bringing us into contention whilst sticking to the club's philosophy and building for long term stability. We should keep him at the club until he's taken us as far as he can. That point has objectively not been reached yet.
 
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hobbers

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We just need our defence to stop being the 5th worst in the league. That'd help a lot.
 

el3mel

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When Ole took over, the 'standard' was to reach the Europa League places.

Then he raised the bar and the 'standard' became sneaking into top 4.

Then he raised the bar again and it became about consolidating top 4 and getting into the knockout phases of the CL.

And now the 'standard' has been raised once more and is almost back to where it used to be during the SAF days.

It's encouraging that so many fans today expect us to go toe-to-toe with Liverpool at the top of the table, whilst beating second placed Leicester away from home and breaking PL records for consecutive wins along the way. I also think it's telling that Solksjaer is now getting criticised for the things he would have been praised for 12 months ago. The progression under him has been fantastic, and some of the pelters he's getting this weekend are a positive sign of how far he's brought us.

The bar for Ole has been gradually rising for the last few months. The fact our 'standards' are so high again tells you what a good job he's done to get us back somewhere near to the top. Even our transfer rumours are returning to being about building the best team in the league, rather than simply one that's good enough to do a job. The squad itself is also seriously being compared to some of Fergie's squads and the players are talking amongst themselves like Roy Keane at his most demanding:


There's still a way to go, of course. But the direction of travel and pace of progress has been good. The last thing we should be doing right now is replacing the manager. Every time the board does that, it's like hitting the reset button and going back 5 stages in the rebuild. Our momentum has to be maintained for as long as it's taking us on an upward trajectory.

Whether or not Ole is the man who can win us the next PL or CL is up for debate. But I think it's pretty clear that he's capable of bringing us into contention whilst sticking to the club's philosophy and building for long term stability. We should keep him at the club until he's taken us as far as he can. That point has objectively not been reached yet.
The standard of United post Fergie was always to at least finish top 4. When was the standard ever to reach Europe League places? To finish top 4 was the bare minimum expectation from both LVG and Mourinho. LVG was sacked for getting us into Europe League even though he won a cup.

And people here didn't like the 2nd spot in 2017/2018 because there was no title challenge.
 

LUC1f3R

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I believe the thread is good and it should stay.

There are 40+% who doubt Ole and this thread can be used to voice their opinion. A discussion can then occur based on their views, a healthy one. Just because 60% has another view doesn't mean the former's opinion should be ignored. I myself think that based on our current form Ole should be given the whole season and should be judged based on our performance at the end of it (Plus given a CB in Jan). Until then there is no problem with having a discussion on his work.

Yesterday was a reality check that Ole is still learning on the job (his selection of James and an injured Lindelof as RB). I am not criticizing him, he is doing good but still making few mistakes. He is not the best manager but learning all the same. End of this season will let us know whether the learnings are fast enough for us or we need someone new. Let us have a discussion on his performance here till then (I didn't find any central forum discussing this).

I don't understand why people are having an issue with this thread, just consider this as an area for discussion and if you don't like the idea of this thread itself, you can always choose to ignore it :D
 

mav_9me

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I have my doubts on how far or where Ole can take us but I wanted to acknowledge Ole has done a great job.

Most impressive for me has been his man management. Without too much drama he has bid goodbye to Lukaku and Sanchez. Rehabilitated Fred, Martial, Shaw and improved McT. Now he is bringing along Greenwood, Tuanzebe, gave time to Brandon Williams.
 

FatherWolff

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I believe the thread is good and it should stay.

There are 40+% who doubt Ole and this thread can be used to voice their opinion. A discussion can then occur based on their views, a healthy one. Just because 60% has another view doesn't mean the former's opinion should be ignored. I myself think that based on our current form Ole should be given the whole season and should be judged based on our performance at the end of it (Plus given a CB in Jan). Until then there is no problem with having a discussion on his work.

Yesterday was a reality check that Ole is still learning on the job (his selection of James and an injured Lindelof as RB). I am not criticizing him, he is doing good but still making few mistakes. He is not the best manager but learning all the same. End of this season will let us know whether the learnings are fast enough for us or we need someone new. Let us have a discussion on his performance here till then (I didn't find any central forum discussing this).

I don't understand why people are having an issue with this thread, just consider this as an area for discussion and if you don't like the idea of this thread itself, you can always choose to ignore it :D
No. It’s not 40% who doubt Ole. It’s 40% who wants to sack him today. It actually reflect more on the 40% than it does Ole.

Doubt is supporting him, the players and team, but not sure they are good enough. Doubt is giving them timeframes to show progress and prove themselves.

40% wants him out today. Don’t get confused, and a handful of posters will shit in every corner until he is gone.
 
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nokillingmoths

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Really confused by ole, not in a small part because I want him to succeed.

I also think that right now his stock is about as high as its ever been as United manager. The CL group was a bit of a shame, but that was a really tough group.

In the league we have been getting better and better and have a good shout for being the best of the rest considering we have played a game less. Yesterday we should have won but I don't think it's on ole that we didn't. In fact I'd say it was one of our best performances of the season and I think we've made genuine progress throughout the Premier league campaign.

I'd give him until he end of the season. Top 4 is an absolute must, with a better points total than last season and an improvement in our style of ay. So far all 3 look likely.

On reflection maybe I am not that confused. But in the past I have certainly hoped he would get sacked.
 

bdecuc

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There should be a performance thread for the manager. Can I suggest that this should not be it the thread for that? A thread and poll about whether we should sack or keep a manager is fine when there's an at least fairly reasonable debate to be had about it.

I think the 42% in the poll for sacking the manager obviously reflects a different time. Of course there are people who have legitimate criticisms of the manager but to have those in a thread which suggests there's still a mood among the fan base to sack Ole is wrong imo. It makes it look like the views of fans are more extreme than they are. And I think opening redcafe to see this thread still active reflects poorly on the site at this stage.

Mods should do their job here and close this thread to further replies.
 

Polar

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40% wants him out today.
Think the number is considerably lower if the poll was updated today. My gut feeling is that 20%want to sack him now. 60% want to evaluate after the season, and 20% want Ole next couple of years. The majority off course represents the most unbiased perspective :D

Any way I think the vast majority is positive regarding the results and the development. We are on the right track; it’s progress step by step even tough the steps are small. The incremental development is probably the best long term approach. That’s why we have to be patient :) Feel safe the majority of us are reasonable and and responsible.
 
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GwilDor

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I think a lot of people are doubting the validity of the poll as it stands. A lot of old votes are not reevaluated one way or the other in a long time. Maybe its an option to reset the vote? Dunno what has been done tge other times the thread has been locked/reopened, but imo it would give the vote more legitimacy if it was «reset» every now and then.
 

Ole'sattheWheel

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A draw away at Leicester (who are 3rd right now btw, 1 point ahead of us while with a game in hand) isn't a bad result in the grand scheme of things.
Of course we could've done with the win but congested winter fixture list, lindelof at RB, knackered Bruno, out of form martial and Rashford 9 changes since our last game....

I don't think we were realistically gonna challenge for the league with our defensive issues this season (which couldnt really be addressed due to covid, however we did improve overall squad depth which is probably the better call overall imo).
If we finish 3-5 points behind the winners this season there are more obvious games to look at that cost us than yesterday (see every game at home bar Leeds and maybe City).

We move on
 

TheGame

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There should be a performance thread for the manager. Can I suggest that this should not be it the thread for that? A thread and poll about whether we should sack or keep a manager is fine when there's an at least fairly reasonable debate to be had about it.

I think the 42% in the poll for sacking the manager obviously reflects a different time. Of course there are people who have legitimate criticisms of the manager but to have those in a thread which suggests there's still a mood among the fan base to sack Ole is wrong imo. It makes it look like the views of fans are more extreme than they are. And I think opening redcafe to see this thread still active reflects poorly on the site at this stage.

Mods should do their job here and close this thread to further replies.
There is, in the performance forum. The fact we have a 'Should we sack the manager' thread considering our current form and position is an embarrassment.
 

Giggsyking

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It's not the first time. The top reds like to have this convo after every non-loss to show their loyalty to the cause.

They like to debate by shutting down debate because they know they'd lose the argument, apart from using their usual 'can't you see the progress', 'go support another club' or 'people disagreeing with me are stupid'.
This
 

TheGame

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Rather than shutting down the debate or whatever other conspiracy theory the Ole out crew like to believe, a number of people have pointed out that there is already a performance thread which can be used for such discussion.
 

Mickson

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I have my doubts on how far or where Ole can take us but I wanted to acknowledge Ole has done a great job.

Most impressive for me has been his man management. Without too much drama he has bid goodbye to Lukaku and Sanchez. Rehabilitated Fred, Martial, Shaw and improved McT. Now he is bringing along Greenwood, Tuanzebe, gave time to Brandon Williams.
Are you seriously giving him credit for Shaw, what has he done with Shaw? And Tuanzebe? He never plays Williams either.
 

Judas

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Why we keep playing with 2 dmc? I get it that with McT and Fred our defence gets more protection. But we seriously lose creativity and possession. All this while having Pogba and VDB on the bench.

I understand to do this in bigger games but it basically became our first 11 setup. We start most of games with 2 dmc. Shouldn't be opposite? That teams like Leicester, Saints, Sheffield or Leipzig adapt their formation to us? Why we adapt our formation and style to weaker teams?
Because neither Fred or McT provide the protection on their own to shield our weak defence. It's true it hampers our creative output massively, which is why a proper DM is so important.
 

Niall

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It’s time to close this thread, it has run its course and morphed into a mega thread dumping ground for too many topics.

From now on, please use the Ole Performance Thread for post match discussions.

CLOSE SHUTTERS
 
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