Playing out from the back

[RDCR07]

Short goal kicks - Why do we do this? We are horrendous at it. We don’t have the personnel for it. Maguire is the only one out of the back four who is comfortable on the call.

Just boot it up once in a while. It adds so much pressure to the back line. How many mistakes are we going to make and how many goals are we going to concede before this decide to stop this?

 

[Mindhunter]

Exactly. And the irony is that clubs press us heavily when we do this and this creates the environment for mistakes around the edge of our box. Part of the reason is our lack of physicality in our forward line as we are second to almost all high balls so in effect every goal kick is equivalent to conceding possession to the opposition.

 

[reddevilchennai]

I don't know why Ole want to change the way in the semis. We clearly don't have the players to play out from the back especially the keeper. Can't rely on Bailly and AWB to play out from the back.

 

[SirScholes]

Agreed
I like the idea of passing out from the gk but not when you don’t really have the right players for it or the right movement in front of the defenders

 

[RDCR07]

Exactly. And the irony is that clubs press us heavily when we do this and this creates the environment for mistakes around the edge of our box. Part of the reason is our lack of physicality in our forward line as we are second to almost all high balls so in effect every goal kick is equivalent to conceding possession to the opposition.

I’d much rather lose possession in their half or the half way line rather than around our box. Also when you boot it out their defender heads it and there is a chance we could get possession back.

 

[RDCR07]

I don't know why Ole want to change the way in the semis. We clearly don't have the players to play out from the back especially the keeper. Can't rely on Bailly and AWB to play out from the back.

Yeah at least Bailly is okay but AWB shits his shorts every time he sees the ball come towards him.

 

[Devil81]

I think it's a myth that Maguire is good at bringing the ball out of defence, all I see is a lad giving the ball away constantly.

 

[Man-United]

Why sign Maguire if Ole want us to play out from the back?

 

[Red00012]

We aren’t very good at it and the opposition can see this which leads to pressing and giving away possession .

It’s fine bringing it into the club but when the keeper hates the ball at his feet and doesn’t like leaving his goal line, you’re not off to a very good start.

 

[Adnan]

Why sign Maguire if Ole want us to play out from the back?

This applies more to AWB..

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No, we have to finally get better at it. It's about time our football moved on from the 90s.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Why not?

We merely should get better at doing it.

We have the players.

Next is just (1) better coaches (ours at the moment are not good enough in instilling better possession team play nor better positioning of players nor better shape) and (2)better system to implement it.

 

[thepolice123]

Its really a combination of issues.

Personally, I think Maguire definitely an upgrade over Smalling at retaining the ball and carrying it out of the defence, however his passing is extremely limited. Takes way too many touches to release the ball and his long passing almost non-existent. He is better at carrying the ball than someone like Vidic but Vidic had a mean long ball and could pass accurately with both foot.

The right sided combination of Lindelof and AWB is a mess. Both of them lacks confidence on the ball. Lindelof has a decent pass but panics when pressured. AWB is extremely poor in tight spaces which doesn't bode well with our strategy.

The only defender who can be relied on is Shaw. His technical ability for a fullback is easily one of the best in the league.

I don't have the stats but I'm sure we attack predominantly down the left.

 

[E-mal]

I think the biggest issue with this is that we have AWB who is just not a real top footballer in terms of ability with the ball, a very slow Maguire and an immobile midfield with press resistance.
To begin with, if we must play from the back, AWB must improve his ability on the ball which is quite immense feat considering how bad he is currently at it.

 

[RDCR07]

I think the biggest issue with this is that we have AWB who is just not a real top footballer in terms of ability with the ball, a very slow Maguire and an immobile midfield with press resistance.
To begin with, if we must play from the back, AWB must improve his ability on the ball which is quite immense feat considering how bad he is currently at it.

I thought Matic was better on the ball too. But the slowness of his turn costs him and he loses possessions far too quickly these days.

 

[Bastian]

I'm not sure I fully subscribe to this tactic. As the OP says, we don't have the personnel for it. But, we don't have the personnel either for winning the aerial duels up the pitch. Though we can win second balls (with coaching, not least mental), winning the first ball dictates where we fight for the second, and of course the further up the pitch the better.

I really would like to see us have a tactical option in the form of a powerful centre forward. Calwert-Lewin would be ideal, but realistically, Cavani is available though people on here seem to be averse to that idea.

If we're going to persist with playing out from the back (against the better high pressing sides - fine against others) we are quite a few players short at the back and in midfield.

 

[Foxbatt]

I'm not sure I fully subscribe to this tactic. As the OP says, we don't have the personnel for it. But, we don't have the personnel either for winning the aerial duels up the pitch. Though we can win second balls (with coaching, not least mental), winning the first ball dictates where we fight for the second, and of course the further up the pitch the better.

I really would like to see us have a tactical option in the form of a powerful centre forward. Calwert-Lewin would be ideal, but realistically, Cavani is available though people on here seem to be averse to that idea.

If we're going to persist with playing out from the back (against the better high pressing sides - fine against others) we are quite a few players short at the back and in midfield.

I think Pogba is tall enough to handle those long balls but I do agree that neither Rashford nor Martial or Greenwood even jumps for a 50/50 ball. Matic is tall enough too for that. The more I see of Martial in the CF position the more I think he is in the wrong position. I am not saying that because he is not a tall strong player but his style of play. I think we should go with two up front with Martial dropping deep and running with the ball.

 

[Obiorahking_]

"We don't have the personnel for it"

I'm so sorry, but if I can watch Brighton, Leeds, and literally any other mid table team successfully pass out the back under pressure 7/10 then there's 0 reason why we shouldn't. We have professional footballers under big contracts who should be capable to string together a couple of passes without completely shitting themselves. If we are poor at it then our players should be making the extra effort to get it right. Our big issue in my opinion is how long we take to move the ball.

 

[TwoSheds]

"We don't have the personnel for it"

I'm so sorry, but if I can watch Brighton, Leeds, and literally any other mid table team successfully pass out the back under pressure 7/10 then there's 0 reason why we shouldn't. We have professional footballers under big contracts who should be capable to string together a couple of passes without completely shitting themselves. If we are poor at it then our players should be making the extra effort to get it right. Our big issue in my opinion is how long we take to move the ball.

Brighton give up loads of goals by passing out the back when they don't have players good enough to beat the press. You just saw Arsenal have the same problem tonight. It's become a fashion but I honestly think most of the teams who try it just aren't good enough at it to make it a benefit. It's probably one of the reasons the current generation of defenders are frequently made to look like mugs compared to defenders of the past.

 

[Bastian]

I think Pogba is tall enough to handle those long balls but I do agree that neither Rashford nor Martial or Greenwood even jumps for a 50/50 ball. Matic is tall enough too for that. The more I see of Martial in the CF position the more I think he is in the wrong position. I am not saying that because he is not a tall strong player but his style of play. I think we should go with two up front with Martial dropping deep and running with the ball.

Yeah, it would be interesting to see us play two up top. Don't think we have the personnel for that either, at the moment. If it's a diamond we need the attacking full backs, and we'll hardly play 442 in this day and age, not least with view to our midfield options.

Pogba has the height, but that's definitely not his game. Lukaku (aside from not being good enough with his feet) should really have been capable of doing that, but his timing of his leaps and ability in aerial duals was way below what you'd expect.

As it is, it's either 4231 or 433 which looks most practical given our personnel and limitations of said personnel.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don't think we need our full backs to attack up to the byline. I would prefer them to cross early I to the space behind the opposing defense as soon as they get it.
I don't like the lack of off the ball movements we have. I feel with good movements even decent players become better.
One thing I noticed was that we rarely lift the ball in a square or a diagonal pass. It always goes from A to B to C. Never A to C.
At this level they should be able to get that executed without giving the ball away.
I think getting someone like Cavani would help a lot if he is willing to be accepted to be rotated.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Brighton give up loads of goals by passing out the back when they don't have players good enough to beat the press. You just saw Arsenal have the same problem tonight. It's become a fashion but I honestly think most of the teams who try it just aren't good enough at it to make it a benefit. It's probably one of the reasons the current generation of defenders are frequently made to look like mugs compared to defenders of the past.

They passed pretty well around us. My main point is that the only way to beat a good high press to by teaching players to move the ball quickly and effectively. Playing the ball long as a main tactic allows teams to win the ball which was the whole point of the high press. I agree that our personel could be better but right now I think its a matter of mentality and how our players go about doing it.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Teams like Spurs (under Poch) and Liverpool often hoof the ball up the pitch for a throw in, and then win the 2nd ball high up the pitch and continue their attack.

I wonder why more teams don't do this instead of the intricate passing out of the back which not every coach is able to perfect. Of course the key is making sure your players can win the 2nd ball, which isn't always the case.

 

[pratyush_utd]

It's cute seeing us try to play from the back. I feel it's one of the most stupid new fashion in football that now every team wants to do.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

The solution isn't hoofing it up the pitch, it's being able to move and create triangles along with having press resistant players. We tend to be really stagnant when playing out of the back, and often just set up 2 blocks of players with Matic and Pogba in front of our two CB's respectively. It creates th

They passed pretty well around us. My main point is that the only way to beat a good high press to by teaching players to move the ball quickly and effectively. Playing the ball long as a main tactic allows teams to win the ball which was the whole point of the high press. I agree that our personel could be better but right now I think its a matter of mentality and how our players go about doing it.

Yeah it's about movement and creating proper triangles to pass out of. As well as having press resistant players, which is something we need more of.

 

[calodo2003]

It's cute seeing us try to play from the back. I feel it's one of the most stupid new fashion in football that now every team wants to do.

With AWB & Lindelöf on one side of the defense, I just cannot see how we persist with this tactic. We have some height up front, launch a few balls occasionally. Don’t do one thing all the time.

 

[gerdm07]

I'm not sure a team can consistently fight for major titles and not play from the back. If you want MU to be forever in the fight for 4th and never challenger in the CL, than by all means let's hoof it.

 

[Foxbatt]

It's cute seeing us try to play from the back. I feel it's one of the most stupid new fashion in football that now every team wants to do.

Absolutely correct. It is fashionable to do this. Managers are put under pressure by pundits and fans to do that and they oblige. It is madness to play a system when you do not have the players and more importantly you cannot execute it.
If Big Sam is managing now even he will be forced to play this way now.

 

[#07]

With AWB & Lindelöf on one side of the defense, I just cannot see how we persist with this tactic. We have some height up front, launch a few balls occasionally. Don’t do one thing all the time.

Absolutely. Opposing teams wait for Lindelof to get the ball, because all he does is dawdle and demand people come short. Then when they apply even gentle pressure he will panic and square it to Wan Bissaka, who just doesn't have the skill to bring it out, inviting the full press. With the height we have with Matic and Pogba we'd be better off going over the press straight into midfield and trying to win the second ball.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I'm not sure a team can consistently fight for major titles and not play from the back. If you want MU to be forever in the fight for 4th and never challenger in the CL, than by all means let's hoof it.

Liverpool hoofed a lot en route to the title.

It's less about not doing something, and more about flexibility. Liverpool or Bayern for example are very flexible in the ways they are able to play, hence being able to pull wins out of anywhere.

If you have the flexibility to play longballs and press high, as well as play out of the back, the opposition will be less able to prepare for you and your buildup play won't be easily nullified.

 

[calodo2003]

Amazing to see some on here completely backing the short pass out of the back. It is a very new phenomenon. If anything, we are trying to force a square peg into a round hole by trying to act like other teams & consistently pass out of the back. Just because the new rule allows for short passes to happen inside the penalty box doesn’t mean we have to do it every time.

 

[sammsky1]

I don't think we need our full backs to attack up to the byline. I would prefer them to cross early I to the space behind the opposing defense as soon as they get it.
I don't like the lack of off the ball movements we have. I feel with good movements even decent players become better.
One thing I noticed was that we rarely lift the ball in a square or a diagonal pass. It always goes from A to B to C. Never A to C.
At this level they should be able to get that executed without giving the ball away.
I think getting someone like Cavani would help a lot if he is willing to be accepted to be rotated.

Annoys the hell out of me. Especially when we have a free man out on a wing.

Has it been banned by Ole or are our players just too scared to try?

 

[Foxbatt]

Annoys the hell out of me. Especially when we have a free man out on a wing.

Has it been banned by Ole or are our players just too scared to try?

I do not think Ole will ban it. I think players are too scared to try it. The more I see the way we play the more I feel that Ole made a mistake in appointing two inexperienced coaches at this level. Mike Phelan was never going to do it and Carrick and Mckenna are too inexperienced at this level. I think Rene may have been the better choice. When Robson was appointed as the Manager of Boro and he started struggling they brought Terry Venables to assist Robson who very gracefully accepted it. Ole should replace or get someone to help him as head coach, or first team coach.

 

[TwoSheds]

They passed pretty well around us. My main point is that the only way to beat a good high press to by teaching players to move the ball quickly and effectively. Playing the ball long as a main tactic allows teams to win the ball which was the whole point of the high press. I agree that our personel could be better but right now I think its a matter of mentality and how our players go about doing it.

They passed well around us because we're shit at pressing.

 

[UmbroDays]

We have some players but I don’t think we have the training and tactics down.

I’ve sat there and watched players not move an inch and ask for the ball. They get the ball and no one moves. Always happens with Rashford on the wing waiting for a ball then starts to dribble and no one to pass to.

Watch Math of the Day 2 where Leicester played City and watch how they broke down how Tillermans and his midfield partner broke the high press. Pass and move. Pass and move. Look how midfield players move in and out of position to make space or a passing lane for the ball carrier.

The offside goal for Greenwood was a perfect example of pass and move but we don’t do it all the time. We’re way too static and I think we should bin this tactic. It’s terrible.

We need better coaching. We need people experienced with training teams about off the ball movement. Carrick was a statue in midfield and I see that tactic still running though our team.

 

[Foxbatt]

It is not only the press. It is the movement off the ball that is crucial. It is right space at the right time. Players have to be at the right space at the right time. This is why many other smaller teams play well. And we don't. Our players are too static and also they play as individuals and that is why when they get the ball they run with it instead of quick passing and moving.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

We have centrebacks and a GK that is good enough on the ball for relatively safe short passing. And we have attackers that poses a threat in behind if a team pushes a high line under a high press. The big issues are that our fullbacks are far from good enough on the ball, we play with one midfielder that makes risky actions far too often and in bad situations and we do not have a cohesive understanding of how to move and pass through pressure.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Brighton give up loads of goals by passing out the back when they don't have players good enough to beat the press. You just saw Arsenal have the same problem tonight. It's become a fashion but I honestly think most of the teams who try it just aren't good enough at it to make it a benefit. It's probably one of the reasons the current generation of defenders are frequently made to look like mugs compared to defenders of the past.

It is, teams simply haven't adjusted to how to deal with this high intensity football and think they have to eesort to foolish tactics to hang around and get a foothold in games. These coaches aren't paying attention and it's costing them.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Mind you, teams and their coaches still don't understand that the most important player in passing out from the back is the holding mid and not anyone else. Yet the likes of Arsenal will try to do so with Xhaka in a holding mid spot which is madness.

 

[snowkarl]

"We don't have the personnel for it"

I'm so sorry, but if I can watch Brighton, Leeds, and literally any other mid table team successfully pass out the back under pressure 7/10 then there's 0 reason why we shouldn't. We have professional footballers under big contracts who should be capable to string together a couple of passes without completely shitting themselves. If we are poor at it then our players should be making the extra effort to get it right. Our big issue in my opinion is how long we take to move the ball.

Let's compare back 4's when it comes exclusively to passing and technique.
Lamptey >>>>> AWB
Dunk > Maguire
Webster > Lindelöf
White > Bailly
March = Shaw

Oh and De Gea is the last keeper in the entire league you want passing out from the back. He's seriously ATROCIOUS at it, always makes the wrong decision.

We simply keep buying below par defenders when it comes to passing, technique and vision. They will get slaughtered if they try. It also requires good positional coaching and deeply ingrained passing patterns to work, something Ole doesn't believe in, let alone is able to implement.