Ousmane Dembele

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sayros

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
6,006
Supports
Paris Saint-Germain
The ifs and buts in this thread are indicative of a downtrodden and desperate fanbase who are so browbeaten they would accept anything roundabouts now.

Conditioning at its finest.

What's a genuine concern here is the strain only Dembele coming in puts on Rashford and Greenwood. He breaks down, and they will have to play more games than is healthy for either of them, otherwise we're left with players Ole doesn't even want to field as backups.

Strong squads can bear the brunt of Dembele whether he turns out to be a steal at the 'bargain' price, or not. For us, however, him breaking down has severe consequences across the season.

I rate the player, and have plenty of posts stating such, but we are not in the position where him being our only wing signing (loan or otherwise) makes sense. Is he better than getting nothing at all? Of course, but how has it come down to this? Dembele is by far, far the most talented player we can get in if it's not Sancho, but he is also by far the most unreliable and precarious, to the point him missing a huge portion of the season should be seen as a given and not blind hope and optimism that he can come to a harsher league and magically turn into a bastion of fitness.

The knock-on effect of Dembele breaking down here is Greenwood having to play more games whether fit to do so or not. Handling a teenager's playing time is a genuine thing, so burdening him, as we would be, is such bad diligence.

If any of this Dembele talk is true, we've gone in trying to strong arm another club and got the treatment back, making us look like fools, again. Because if we're buying Dembele instead of loaning him, we're taking on the burden of fixing him completely blindly. At least a loan would give us a chance to look at his physiology and response to certain treatments before then pulling the trigger; a straight purchase, even for the discount, palms a crock onto us with no out for a solid 2.5 years, at least. Falcao, Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, Jones... have we learned nothing?

To be clear, as part of two-wingers coming into the club, or with an already strong squad, Dembele is a player you try to get all day long, hence Liverpool and Juventus' attempts, but in our predicament, and as a straight, standalone purchase, it is negligence that compromises 1, if not 2 of our starters and also puts the spotlight straight back on players who shouldn't even be at the club as they then are back to being stand-ins, just as they were last season whilst Dembele is almost certainly out injured.

Whatever you think of Ole, the club have royally fecked him this window - and it's him that will be held accountable if anything happens to Greenwood, or Rashford goes down once again due to them not getting the downtime they would've with proper attacking reinforcement.
Great post, completely agree with it. Dembele alone (and VDB) is just not going to be enough depth for Rashford, Greenwood, and I'd even include Martial in that as well since Dembele can cover both wings, it gives Greenwood an opportunity to move to CF for some games as part of a rotation, but if Dembele is out injured, it definitely puts pressure on those guys as you mentioned.

The strange thing with Dembele is he didn't get hurt much prior to Barcelona, so you have to wonder if it's a neglect in their medical/training staff in the kind of training and drills they are putting him through compared to his playing and physical style of football. I don't know if the medical geniuses who botched Rashford last season at United would do any better with him, so it is worrisome if that's the big fish they are trying to land for this window.

And yes, Ole will unfortunately be the victim blamed for Ed Woodward's failures. He's not given the weapons needed to succeed when compared to the other top 4 prospects.
 

Organic Potatoes

Full Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
17,173
Location
85R723R2+R6
Supports
Colorado Rapids
Sometimes you have to take big risks, whether it is with players or just in business. Fergie definitely did. I’m all for adding to our French contingent if we don’t get Sancho.

Follow it up next summer with one of those French CB up and comers and we might be sitting pretty.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
Sometimes you have to take big risks, whether it is with players or just in business. Fergie definitely did. I’m all for adding to our French contingent if we don’t get Sancho.

Follow it up next summer with one of those French CB up and comers and we might be sitting pretty.
Yeah, getting him back to his best and getting Sancho next summer could be a real game changer for us.
Ole has to fancy it. Its there for us if he can.
 

Redcy

Full Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,614
Yeah, getting him back to his best and getting Sancho next summer could be a real game changer for us.
Ole has to fancy it. Its there for us if he can.
we are not getting both, if we spend 50-60m on him, he better work or we will have another useless player on £250-275k a week. We won’t be going back for sancho next year, if dembele doesn’t work out then we will be playing Greenwood
 

Redcy

Full Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,614
Great post, completely agree with it. Dembele alone (and VDB) is just not going to be enough depth for Rashford, Greenwood, and I'd even include Martial in that as well since Dembele can cover both wings, it gives Greenwood an opportunity to move to CF for some games as part of a rotation, but if Dembele is out injured, it definitely puts pressure on those guys as you mentioned.

The strange thing with Dembele is he didn't get hurt much prior to Barcelona, so you have to wonder if it's a neglect in their medical/training staff in the kind of training and drills they are putting him through compared to his playing and physical style of football. I don't know if the medical geniuses who botched Rashford last season at United would do any better with him, so it is worrisome if that's the big fish they are trying to land for this window.

And yes, Ole will unfortunately be the victim blamed for Ed Woodward's failures. He's not given the weapons needed to succeed when compared to the other top 4 prospects.
Great post, completely agree with it. Dembele alone (and VDB) is just not going to be enough depth for Rashford, Greenwood, and I'd even include Martial in that as well since Dembele can cover both wings, it gives Greenwood an opportunity to move to CF for some games as part of a rotation, but if Dembele is out injured, it definitely puts pressure on those guys as you mentioned.

The strange thing with Dembele is he didn't get hurt much prior to Barcelona, so you have to wonder if it's a neglect in their medical/training staff in the kind of training and drills they are putting him through compared to his playing and physical style of football. I don't know if the medical geniuses who botched Rashford last season at United would do any better with him, so it is worrisome if that's the big fish they are trying to land for this window.

And yes, Ole will unfortunately be the victim blamed for Ed Woodward's failures. He's not given the weapons needed to succeed when compared to the other top 4 prospects.
or he was a kid who had played two years, went to a tougher league, got a bad injury and like most pacy players once you get bad hamstring injuries they stay forever. The only way around that usually is to change your game.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
we are not getting both, if we spend 50-60m on him, he better work or we will have another useless player on £250-275k a week. We won’t be going back for sancho next year, if dembele doesn’t work out then we will be playing Greenwood
Why wouldn't we be? Hes a long term target and we have been after him every summer since he left City.
 

londonredmaniac

I suffer delusions of grandeur
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
18,673
Location
Mid life crisis
Ozzie, United is great! Honestly, you can spend half the season injured, play one in three good games for the the other half you are fit for and some of these cnuts will STILL call you world class.

All for 300 grand a week. No Oz, I'm serious...
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
6,302
Sometimes you have to take big risks, whether it is with players or just in business. Fergie definitely did. I’m all for adding to our French contingent if we don’t get Sancho.

Follow it up next summer with one of those French CB up and comers and we might be sitting pretty.
Maybe Ole was wrong saying he wanted a British core, what he should have said is that he needed a French core. :angel:
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
14,395
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
80 mil.. they sure know how to deal with Woody :lol:
hahaha and it’s going up another 10 mil a day. Like where did this terrible idea come out Of? Let’s go chasing Dembele who has years left on his contract for the last few days of the window. He’s not for sale, he’s always injured and he wants to try and get his career going at Barca but who can resist when clever Eddie comes calling. We can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of, after all... you could only dream this shite up
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
6,302
WTF. How did it get to 80 million from 45? And that Barca's value if true is utterly delusional :lol:

Then again these are twitter talks and I'm sure barely 2% of whatever posted on twitter about transfers, rumors, etc, are true or accurate.
 

Santoryo

ripping the reward
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
6,302
hahaha and it’s going up another 10 mil a day. Like where did this terrible idea come out Of? Let’s go chasing Dembele who has years left on his contract for the last few days of the window. He’s not for sale, he’s always injured and he wants to try and get his career going at Barca but who can resist when clever Eddie comes calling. We can do things in the transfer market that other clubs can only dream of, after all... you could only dream this shite up
Twitter ITKs and all these so called reporters, journos, etc exist and make a decent living because of the likes of you who gobble every single bs they spout on twitter.
 

UncleBob

New Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
6,330
WTF. How did it get to 80 million from 45? And that Barca's value if true is utterly delusional :lol:

Then again these are twitter talks and I'm sure barely 2% of whatever posted on twitter about transfers, rumors, etc, are true or accurate.
I'd be surprised if their valuation are closer to 45 than 80 given Barcelonas financial concerns.
 

GoldanoGraham

Full Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
1,303
Ozzie, United is great! Honestly, you can spend half the season injured, play one in three good games for the the other half you are fit for and some of these cnuts will STILL call you world class.

All for 300 grand a week. No Oz, I'm serious...
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 

LuckyScout78

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
999
No no this. There are so many better wingers out there. And you consider Dembele. The boy is not athletic and do not has top work rate at all.

Harvey Barnes from Leicester City and Pedro Netro from Wolves are easily a better full packet football players. Both of those two boys are athletic, working hard players and wingers. Aggressive and high winning mentality.

I have been impressed by Harvey Barnes in the last two year. Pedro Netro first year in premier league. I am keeping close eyes on those two. Both of those two are machine. They are athletic and run a lot. They have top guts.
Well deserve for Barnes first up call. And not the last.
And Harvey Barnes is clearly better than David Brooks too. For those who had suggested Brooks. You know what you will get from Barnes. He always give 100% . Same as Pedro Netro. I like those guys top guts and fighting mentality. No top guts, no glory.

If not Sancho and Chiesa. Then you have quality wingers in Barnes, Netro. And the new RW Ajax had bought from Brazil, in Anthony Santos.

 

Kasper

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
3,589
Supports
Hansa Rostock / Bradford City
I think Barca will have to pay the so far not fullfilled add-ons to Dortmund which are still about 20m€ and Dortmund might even have a sell-on percentage. So for Barca it makes sense to demand a lot money if they want to make any sort of reasonable profit.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
Can someone please explain to me what "option to buy" means? Why would they insist on the option when we can simply say "we choose the option of not buying" after the loan ends?
In case he's shit. Its like a free hit for the buyer and the selling club might think he would suit a different league / side and know he will be better there but you cant negotiate on that basis.
 

MalcolmTucker

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,810
No no this. There are so many better wingers out there. And you consider Dembele. The boy is not athletic and do not has top work rate at all.

Harvey Barnes from Leicester City and Pedro Netro from Wolves are easily a better full packet football players. Both of those two boys are athletic, working hard players and wingers. Aggressive and high winning mentality.

I have been impressed by Harvey Barnes in the last two year. Pedro Netro first year in premier league. I am keeping close eyes on those two. Both of those two are machine. They are athletic and run a lot. They have top guts.
Well deserve for Barnes first up call. And not the last.
And Harvey Barnes is clearly better than David Brooks too. For those who had suggested Brooks. You know what you will get from Barnes. He always give 100% . Same as Pedro Netro. I like those guys top guts and fighting mentality. No top guts, no glory.

If not Sancho and Chiesa. Then you have quality wingers in Barnes, Netro. And the new RW Ajax had bought from Brazil, in Anthony Santos.

Is this satire?
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
14,624
Can someone please explain to me what "option to buy" means? Why would they insist on the option when we can simply say "we choose the option of not buying" after the loan ends?
I agree, it doesnt make any sense. They need to think this through before making up such rumours.

The loanee wants the option to buy at a decent fee if he does well, it's better than just a loan. There is nothing in it for the club loaning him out.
 

beingshe7don

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
2,735
No no this. There are so many better wingers out there. And you consider Dembele. The boy is not athletic and do not has top work rate at all.

Harvey Barnes from Leicester City and Pedro Netro from Wolves are easily a better full packet football players. Both of those two boys are athletic, working hard players and wingers. Aggressive and high winning mentality.

I have been impressed by Harvey Barnes in the last two year. Pedro Netro first year in premier league. I am keeping close eyes on those two. Both of those two are machine. They are athletic and run a lot. They have top guts.
Well deserve for Barnes first up call. And not the last.
And Harvey Barnes is clearly better than David Brooks too. For those who had suggested Brooks. You know what you will get from Barnes. He always give 100% . Same as Pedro Netro. I like those guys top guts and fighting mentality. No top guts, no glory.

If not Sancho and Chiesa. Then you have quality wingers in Barnes, Netro. And the new RW Ajax had bought from Brazil, in Anthony Santos.

If we are lower our standards to getting Harvey Barnes, I would rather not get anyone. The question you need to ask yourself is Harvey Barnes good enough to displace Greenwood. For that matter is any incoming RW good enough to displace Greenwood, if not, I wouldn't buy them at all. We shouldn't be buying players just for the sake of it. We need to improve our starting 11 first.
 

Dominos

Full Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
7,016
Location
Manchester
Can someone please explain to me what "option to buy" means? Why would they insist on the option when we can simply say "we choose the option of not buying" after the loan ends?
The tweet is wrong, Barca want obligation to buy.

In terms of why there would ever be an option to buy clause, it would be an option to buy for a set price (presumably discounted from real market value?) - which generally would favour the buying club so not sure what the incentive is for the selling club to include this when loaning out their players, unless they're desperate to get rid of a player and can't do so otherwise.
 

beingshe7don

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
2,735
Can someone please explain to me what "option to buy" means? Why would they insist on the option when we can simply say "we choose the option of not buying" after the loan ends?
There are three options in total
1. No option to buy
2. Option to buy (whereby the loanee club decides on activating the buy option or not at the end of the loan. Eg. When SAF decided against the idea of buying Tevez after his 2-year loan as opposed to the Sanchez deal which Inter activated to buy him upon completion of his loan )
3. Obligation to buy (whereby the loanee club has to buy the player regardless of how the player actually performed. This is usually the case when the loanee club does not have the money to utilize in this window and therefore strikes some sort of deal to appease the parent club. Eg. Mbappe was loaned by PSG before actually buying him the year after from Monaco)
 

Redcy

Full Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
2,614
I agree, it doesnt make any sense. They need to think this through before making up such rumours.

The loanee wants the option to buy at a decent fee if he does well, it's better than just a loan. There is nothing in it for the club loaning him out.
As has been mentioned Barca will want an obligation to buy, you could probably negotiate a trigger say if he completes 15 games this season.

Barca would want the trigger to be low, any idea we insist on him completing 45 games, is fanciful as Barca are well aware of his injury problems
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
14,624
As has been mentioned Barca will want an obligation to buy, you could probably negotiate a trigger say if he completes 15 games this season.

Barca would want the trigger to be low, any idea we insist on him completing 45 games, is fanciful as Barca are well aware of his injury problems
Obligation maybe, but option is no benefit to them which is what I was referring to.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

Full Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2015
Messages
6,946
Location
"Martial...He's isolated Skrtel here..."
Can someone please explain to me what "option to buy" means? Why would they insist on the option when we can simply say "we choose the option of not buying" after the loan ends?
Its gotta be bad wording, because the option would only benefit us if Dembele was really good we would basically get him drama free at a solid price. "Obligation" on the other hand would mean we would have to purchase if Dembele accomplished certain criteria, such as appearances or goals.
 

peridigm

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
13,916
Great. Pay 80 million to buy a player who spends more time injured than playing
Barca paid a lot more and want to get as much as possible if they sell. Fair enough. Just doesn’t need to be us. They’ll need to prove he can stay fit for at least a season before justifying that kind of fee.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.