When do we cut our losses on Maguire?

[NJM78]

I don't really like Maguire, got caught up in the transfer when we signed him after first impressing me playing for Hull, but overall no better than Smalling, a player and I was glad to see the back of. Unfortunately no one will be buying him from us, not even for half of what we have paid so he will be staying. Just wish Ole would take captains arm band from him and give it to Bruno.

We really do have a bunch of misfits at CB. Never winning a title with them.

 

[simplyared]

The longer this thread goes on the more pathetic it gets! 10 pages ffs!

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

The longer this thread goes on the more pathetic it gets! 10 pages ffs!

It’s called diversity of opinion. Not everybody can think exactly how you do.

My standards for United are as a title challenger. Maguire isn’t a number one centre back for a title contender. I understand that having 2 world class CBs is rare & we were lucky to have Rio & Vidic together. Could Maguire be a Ronny Johnsen or a Joe Gomez or a Otamendi, and start as the centre back alongside the world class centre back? Yes. I’m not saying he’s shit. We’re never sniffing a title race if he’s our number one centre back, ever. I guarantee you ever. Never ever.

 

[lex talionis]

Still an absurd thread.

Ok, let's play along...who on the first team other than Fernandes deserves to be spared from "cutting our losses"?

Greenwood, the teenager. Donny, as he deserves to at least be given a chance before we cut our losses on him. That might be about it from a "let's cut our losses" perspective.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It’s called diversity of opinion. Not everybody can think exactly how you do.

My standards for United are as a title challenger. Maguire isn’t a number one centre back for a title contender. I understand that having 2 world class CBs is rare & we were lucky to have Rio & Vidic together. Could Maguire be a Ronny Johnsen or a Joe Gomez or a Otamendi, and start as the centre back alongside the world class centre back? Yes. I’m not saying he’s shit. We’re never sniffing a title race if he’s our number one centre back, ever. I guarantee you ever. Never ever.

I love this idea that you have these ‘standards’, and if people disagree with you, then they are settling for ‘mediocrity’.

Iv’e seen this a lot recently, and it’s used to belittle a poster that you disagree with, or that holds a player in better regard than you or someone else does.

it’s a stick to beat posters with. Look at me, I’m a better fan, because I don’t settle for mediocrity.. my standards. My standards.

sometimes you have to wait. This is the instant generation. If it’s not now, we need to throw everything out and start again. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Leftback99]

Still an absurd thread.

Ok, let's play along...who on the first team other than Fernandes deserves to be spared from "cutting our losses"?

Greenwood, the teenager. Donny, as he deserves to at least be given a chance before we cut our losses on him. That might be about it from a "let's cut our losses" perspective.

Bruno's not better than De Bruyne so we should cut our losses soon enough.

The argument that he's not good enough to be number 1 centre back for a 'title challenger' is ridiculous when this season basically the best of the rest is maybe Laporte.

We know we're not going to challenge for the title. By the same argument we don't have a 'title challenging' right wing (or even mid table), left wing, striker, centre mid, right back or left back.

 

[jem]

Id want my eyes back though so I could get back to being right

right...out of your mind!

 

[Volumiza]

right...out of your mind!

Touché

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Bruno's not better than De Bruyne so we should cut our losses soon enough.

The argument that he's not good enough to be number 1 centre back for a 'title challenger' is ridiculous when this season basically the best of the rest is maybe Laporte.

We know we're not going to challenge for the title. By the same argument we don't have a 'title challenging' right wing (or even mid table), left wing, striker, centre mid, right back or left back.

There is a chance that at some point in his career Maguire may be part of a Premier League winning defence but that all counts for nought if he doesn’t actually win one.

Rate him or not Laporte has played a role [I don’t watch City much so can’t say how big] in 2 Premier League winning sides; as of yet Maguire has improved our goals conceded versus the season Jose was actively seeking the sack but that’s it.

You assert he is good enough than someone who has actually won a league title because you prefer him which is absurd in itself.

Maguire is not a bad CB, & he is far from our biggest defensive issue imo but he has A LOT to prove which makes his reputation on here bemusing.

 

[GledTheRed]

Maguire is an excellent CB.

 

[TOMTOMTHERED]

Seriously? the modern day fan base is pathetic

 

[Leftback99]

There is a chance that at some point in his career Maguire may be part of a Premier League winning defence but that all counts for nought if he doesn’t actually win one.

Rate him or not Laporte has played a role [I don’t watch City much so can’t say how big] in 2 Premier League winning sides; as of yet Maguire has improved our goals conceded versus the season Jose was actively seeking the sack but that’s it.

You assert he is good enough than someone who has actually won a league title because you prefer him which is absurd in itself.

Maguire is not a bad CB, & he is far from our biggest defensive issue imo but he has A LOT to prove which makes his reputation on here bemusing.

Not sure what you point is? Where did I say I 'prefer him' to Laporte?

With VVD injured Laporte is probably the best CB in the league. Laporte doesn't even get a game for France. It's hardly massively over rating Maguire to say he's close to one of the best in the league. Which for nearly all of our other players you can't say the same.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

I think you're in for a lot of future disappointment if you use Rio and Vidic as the benchmark for a CB, no matter who we sign.

Why not?Shouldn’t that be our aim?Liverpool signed a CB a couple of years ago Whos as good as Ferdinand or Vidic....Our ambition should always be to have world class players in every position.Either we should be prepared to splash the cash(like we did with rio),or we should try to unearth hidden gems through good scouting(like we did with Vidic)

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Who feckin is these days? I agree. Based on the injury profile of our defenders we do need to get in quality defenders who can stay fit.

I'm not sure why getting rid of Maguire is a good idea when he's the only one capable of playing every game and is nowhere near our worst defender.

The issue with the partnership with Lindelof is that they are too similar. If we can't keep our pacy defenders, Bailly or Tuanzebe, fit then what's what we need to bring in but not while we sell Maguire and not for 40m.

VVD is probably as good as them....Kompany was as good as them a few years ago...Our aim should always be to have players of the highest caliber....,

 

[Withnail]

VVD is probably as good as them....Kompany was as good as them a few years ago...Our aim should always be to have players of the highest caliber....,

So one player who is still playing?

Well that's me told.

 

[RkkMan]

Why not?Shouldn’t that be our aim?Liverpool signed a CB a couple of years ago Whos as good as Ferdinand or Vidic....Our ambition should always be to have world class players in every position.Either we should be prepared to splash the cash(like we did with rio),or we should try to unearth hidden gems through good scouting(like we did with Vidic)

That CB LFC signed was nowhere near world class at that time and his transfer fee caused serious shock waves as a result. Despite how class Van Dijk was at Southampton nobody saw him as a tier 1 CB alongside Ramos, Thiago Silva etc Liverpool just got extremely fortunate how his game went up another level in a manner nobody/very very few people foresaw. Truth of the matter is there`s very very few top top tier CBs at the level of Vidic/Rio/Terry left in this era and your best gamble is either spending on potentially world class CBs ala Saliba/Sarr(the CB Chelsea signed) or making a similar gamble Liverpool made with VVD or us with Maguire hoping you get a gem

 

[Hammondo]

Not sure what you point is? Where did I say I 'prefer him' to Laporte?

With VVD injured Laporte is probably the best CB in the league. Laporte doesn't even get a game for France. It's hardly massively over rating Maguire to say he's close to one of the best in the league. Which for nearly all of our other players you can't say the same.

I think that's overrating him.

 

[Leftback99]

I think that's overrating him.

Fair enough. Who in your opinion are the top 5 CBs in the league?

 

[JPB]

Fair enough. Who in your opinion are the top 5 CBs in the league?

All I know is Smalling was top 3 before he left. No joke.

 

[Zen86]

Why not?Shouldn’t that be our aim?Liverpool signed a CB a couple of years ago Whos as good as Ferdinand or Vidic....Our ambition should always be to have world class players in every position.Either we should be prepared to splash the cash(like we did with rio),or we should try to unearth hidden gems through good scouting(like we did with Vidic)

VVD isn’t as good as Vidic and Ferdinand, and there aren’t many top class CBs around right now. As for “we should try to unearth hidden gems” like Vidic..

 

[Withnail]

All I know is Smalling was top 3 before he left. No joke.

What's this based on?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

All I know is Smalling was top 3 before he left. No joke.

This is a conversation the Caf isn’t ready for.

Given we had Smalling, Maguire was a horrendous distribution of such a fee but he’s here now so we may aswell vastly overstate his abilities like a lot of the Caf.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

He’s not good enough, but Ole’s zonal marking doesn’t help him. Why are Telles & Rashford on their centre backs?

 

[Wade3]

He’s not good enough, but Ole’s zonal marking doesn’t help him. Why are Telles & Rashford on their centre backs?

Not good enough at what exactly and who are we gonna replace him with that is good enough?

 

[M Bison]

Think him and Lindelof have done fine, strange thread to bump at this point.

 

[Resch]

Today not the problem. Our problem is our coach.....

 

[M Bison]

VVD isn’t as good as Vidic and Ferdinand, and there aren’t many top class CBs around right now. As for “we should try to unearth hidden gems” like Vidic..

Love comments like that “we should unearth a hidden gem”, damn why didn’t we think of that sooner?!

 

[Machine Elements]

Not good enough at what exactly and who are we gonna replace him with that is good enough?

The very same excuse that's made for Ole by his deluded defenders.

 

[Hammondo]

Fair enough. Who in your opinion are the top 5 CBs in the league?

I do not think he was the best CB at Leicester, I do not think fans outside of united think he should be included in any talk about the best CB's in the prem.

 

[Zen86]

Love comments like that “we should unearth a hidden gem”, damn why didn’t we think of that sooner?!

@Nikelesh Reddy needs to tell Woodward this strategy. Hell, the whole PL could benefit from this crazy idea of buying world class players for peanuts.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Not good enough at what exactly and who are we gonna replace him with that is good enough?

Passing, marking, intelligence, speed, he’s also not a leader although the captaincy isn’t his fault. Somebody better. There’s plenty out there who can do more than head & tackle mate.

 

[harms]

That CB LFC signed was nowhere near world class at that time and his transfer fee caused serious shock waves as a result. Despite how class Van Dijk was at Southampton nobody saw him as a tier 1 CB alongside Ramos, Thiago Silva etc Liverpool just got extremely fortunate how his game went up another level in a manner nobody/very very few people foresaw. Truth of the matter is there`s very very few top top tier CBs at the level of Vidic/Rio/Terry left in this era and your best gamble is either spending on potentially world class CBs ala Saliba/Sarr(the CB Chelsea signed) or making a similar gamble Liverpool made with VVD or us with Maguire hoping you get a gem

He was not as good as them, obviously, but he was a defender without any obvious weaknesses & with a potential to improve. His fee was ridiculed, mind you, but barely anyone disagreed that they've signed the best option in the market. It just seemed inflated – turns out it wasn't. The thing is, we didn't sign the best option in the market even though we've spent a world record fee for a defender – in fact, a way better center back with a high ceiling changed the club in the same summer for a lesser sum. Transfers of van Dijk and Maguire aren't similar – and they weren't similar even without the advantage of hindsight.

 

[Stacks]

None of the goals were his fault so I dunno why it was bumped

 

[r3idy]

edit

 

[Yorkeontop]

I'm not sure we need to sell him but the club can't act like we've found the solution at CB. We made a mistake paying that much and I hope we're not beholden to him because of that.

 

[Sandikan]

He’s not good enough, but Ole’s zonal marking doesn’t help him. Why are Telles & Rashford on their centre backs?

It's zonal marking. You keep your best header where there's generally the biggest risk - middle of the goal.

If you play man for man there's the risk he's taken miles out of the way which with the rest of our players bar Cavani being fairly flimsy in the air creates huge risks.

 

[Sandikan]

None of the goals were his fault so I dunno why it was bumped

I saw someone on the matchday thread trying to suggest their second goal was Maguire's fault for not jumping.
Agenda is overused but that was beyond belief.

 

[Volumiza]

Agenda is overused but that was beyond belief.

Yep, another typically solid performance today.

 

[JadoreSox]

Regardless of what he cost he's our best defender, 'cutting our losses' would be cutting off the nose to spite the face.

 

[limerickcitykid]

It's zonal marking. You keep your best header where there's generally the biggest risk - middle of the goal.

If you play man for man there's the risk he's taken miles out of the way which with the rest of our players bar Cavani being fairly flimsy in the air creates huge risks.

It’s really that simple.

But he’ll get shit all over for it because the majority of people don’t understand basic tactics. The majority of people don’t even understand how zonal marking works and just rant about it because some stupid commentators, who also don’t understand basics, ranted about it.