2021 American Civil War

DOTA

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And what prevents this same thing from happening in 2 weeks time ?
I don't think causing it to happen now because it could happen anyway in two weeks time is a sensible plan.
 

calodo2003

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Your examples would still all be tragic, not sure they fit your point, ah well either way...
Why are they tragic? They are simply the result of poor decisions.

You can’t absolve people of their poor decision making. Poor decisions have consequences, even ultimate consequences.

It’s not like these results would have happened out of the blue.
 

Andrew~

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The most unsurprising and yet interesting thing about this is how loads of the participants are wearing very expensive tactical gear (armour, boots, gloves, helmets etc), and yet they were so disorganised. Shows you the real hardliners who are training consistently haven't shown up yet, and also that the death of that woman is going to raise the stakes in the future.

Interesting times.
 

calodo2003

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It’s disappointing that she was 16.

She wasn’t an innocent bystander in these proceedings, however.
 

Revan

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I think the protests will be larger and some protestors will open gunfire.
Why this won't happen two weeks from now when he gets removed?

Let's not forget that he (in a metaphorical way) has still the codes to the nuclear weapons. Among other things.
 

sullydnl

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A 16 year old getting swept up in this and getting shot is tragic. Dont mater who’s ‘side’ she’s on
100%. An adult with full agency is one thing but a 16 year old is a kid.
 

horsechoker

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It’s disappointing that she was 16.

She wasn’t an innocent bystander in these proceedings, however.
People do a lot of stupid shit at 16, now her life is over and she won't ever be able to make up for it.

Most likely she was radicalised by her family.
 

Rado_N

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Also wtf was a 16 year old doing there? If her parents were there they should be charged with endangerment.
 

DOTA

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Why this won't happen two weeks from now when he gets removed?

Let's not forget that he (in a metaphorical way) has still the codes to the nuclear weapons. Among other things.
Already responded to the first point above.

I don't believe there is any chance him ordering a nuclear strike would be followed, to be honest. What I do find quite possible is that they are unable to convince him not to address the nation calling for armed insurrection. That would be the moment Pence should bite the bullet, try the 25th thing, and immediately flee the country.
 

The Firestarter

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I don't think causing it to happen now because it could happen anyway in two weeks time is a sensible plan.
Dude, these people believe that dipshit won in a landslide, and just stormed the fecking capitol building. They do what he tells them. The reason for removing him is to prevent or at least delay any further destruction of democracy that he can do from office. And to actually have a functioning president for the next two weeks.
 

calodo2003

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People do a lot of stupid shit at 16, now her life is over and she won't ever be able to make up for it.

Most likely she was radicalised by her family.
Then they are as much to blame for the incident as she was.

Let’s not try to spin this solely on her age.

Again, if she wasn’t on the tip of the spear of the front line to this, she might not have been shot.
 

calodo2003

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Also wtf was a 16 year old doing there? If her parents were there they should be charged with endangerment.
Kyle Rittenhouse was 17.

Hopefully both sets of parents get charged if it is proven they enabled such behavior.
 

sullydnl

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People do a lot of stupid shit at 16, now her life is over and she won't ever be able to make up for it.

Most likely she was radicalised by her family.
Yep.

Can't say I'd have been stupid enough to be part of this sort of protest when I was 16 but if I had been I would definitely have been stupid enough to then follow the crowd of adult protestors as they entered the building. Especially in a situation where a lot of the police response around me suggested a less-than-life-threatening situation.

Adults should have the capacity not to get caught up in such reckless stupidity. We rightly don't hold 16 year olds to that same standard though.
 

Grinner

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Some Capitol policeman who normally deals with dumb tourists going in the wrong door is tonight dealing with the fact that he shot and killed a 16 year-old kid.

Ted Cruz and co. have a lot to answer for.
 

MTF

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Are there any reports on who fired the shot?
From the video I saw it looked like it could pretty much only have been Law Enforcement. She tries to jump in as the photo above shows, and at that instant you hear a gunshot and she falls back.
 

DOTA

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Dude, these people believe that dipshit won in a landslide, and just stormed the fecking capitol building. They do what he tells them. The reason for removing him is to prevent or at least delay any further destruction of democracy that he can do from office. And to actually have a functioning president for the next two weeks.
As I say, I think you'd be condemning that functioning president to dealing with far more turmoil than we've yet seen. When there remains a decent chance that tonight is as bad as things get in the short term.

EDIT - By short term I'm including Biden being sworn in. I don't think it's at all certain that things will be worse then than today.
 

The Firestarter

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As I say, I think you'd be condemning that functioning president to dealing with far more turmoil than we've yet seen. When there remains a decent chance that tonight is as bad as things get in the short term.
I do wonder how many times I've heard this the last four years.
 

calodo2003

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Yep.

Can't say I'd have been stupid enough to be part of this sort of protest when I was 16 but if I had been I would definitely have been stupid enough to then follow the crowd of adult protestors as they entered the building. Especially in a situation where a lot of the police response around me suggested a less-than-life-threatening situation.

Adults should have the capacity not to get caught up in such reckless stupidity. We rightly don't hold 16 year olds to that same standard though.
Yet, even at 16, one knows not to engage directly against an armed police officer while commuting a crime.

Especially in this day & age.
 

oates

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Then they are as much to blame for the incident as she was.

Let’s not try to spin this solely on her age.

Again, if she wasn’t on the tip of the spear of the front line to this, she might not have been shot.
Oh do give it a rest. Next you'll try and portray her as some kind of modern day Hitler Youth leader.

You all really need to find out how so many of you see each other as less than human. Trump is ultimately responsible but his supporters have been so ready to take up his cause. Why do they hate you all so much and vice versa? You need to find common ground and build on it otherwise it won't just end on the 20th January.
 

NinjaFletch

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Yet, even at 16, one knows not to engage directly against an armed police officer while commuting a crime.

Especially in this day & age.
In fairness, it's probably a bit confusing when the police have let you in and posed for selfies with you when one of them decides to shoot you in the face.
 

prateik

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Just 1 person dead is impressive .. I thought these guys were pretty trigger happy.
 

massi83

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Yet, even at 16, one knows not to engage directly against an armed police officer while commuting a crime.

Especially in this day & age.
You've said what you have to say multiple times. Can you shut it already.
 

The Firestarter

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I'm guessing we do at least agree that there's no chance Pence is actually gonna try it at this point?
In such black swan events you cant really assume a whole lot. Next 24 hours are pretty unpredictable.
 

4bars

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Yet, even at 16, one knows not to engage directly against an armed police officer while commuting a crime.

Especially in this day & age.
If you are lone maybe. If you are part of a mob that had been allowed to enter till that far inside the building, you don't think it will happen...actually she was the only one

She didn't deserve it bc her age, what her parents deserve is directly proportional to their resposability in her radicalization and dumbfeckery