I still don't believe that Ole is good enough. It's not exactly as yesterday was impressive in any way. The reason I'm quiet? No reason to moan when we win, is it? You seem very angry, that's kind of scary reasoning in life.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I don’t think Ole is good enough either. I still haven’t forgiven him for not taking Fred off in the UCL which then resulted in Fred getting a red card and we didn’t win and got kicked out the UCL. A competent manager would have made the sub. Since then whenever I view Ole my view is tarnished by that moment. I will give Ole one thing though, I feel that his recruitment has been a lot better than the previous managers and I do believe he tries his best. Do I think he is tactically brilliant ? No. Do I think the players are playing for him? Yes I do. I hope Ole can change my mind I really do.
Last season Solskjaer literally had the BEST points tally in the Big Six league.
IE: He got more points from the big games than Klopp, Guardiola etc.
Did you just forget about that.... or?
Top of the league.
That's now 9 wins a 2 draws since our defeat to Arsenal. 29 points from a possible 33. Ridiculously good form.
Take a few days off while we’re top of the league
That's exactly what I said? There's no reason to moan about the same thing when we win. He asked where we were, and I answered. We don't base our opinion on a short number of games. A month ago more than half of our supporters turned on Ole. I stand by that Ole is not good enough in the long run, he has done some things well and we are in a good position so just enjoy it.
I think this says more about you and other posters than anyone else. This is really odd behaviour. I said it before and I'll say it again - you aren't soldiers and you haven't fought a war.
That said, its fecking great to be top. Up until 5 or 6 weeks ago, I had next to 0 faith in Ole but now I do. A lot of us were crying about some consistency and we've finally got it.
If some of you are reacting like the above, you really should take some time away - some random internet persons opinion shouldn't affect you so much.
Am I Ole out? Nope. Do I trust Ole? I do now. And with each game, the trust gets stronger.
'The long run' has been thrown around since Ole first became permanent manager in 2019 (caretaker was in December 2018) that's 2 years ago. Clearly he is good enough in 'the long run' as he has got us to the top of the league. If we win it remains to be seen. But why is he not good enough right now? Will his good fortunes run out? Are you claiming that the reason that we're top is pure luck? COVID? Weird Season? If so why are they the reasons as to why we are top and not Liverpool's title win?
We're playing good football, we're consistent and not losing that many games in the league and have won the most games out of every other club in the league. Why is Ole not good enough? Is he not as fancy and as hipster as a Klopp or the CAF's lovechild Poch? The pure disrespect to Ole is ridiculous even when United are top there is still fans basically saying oh it's good but the good fortunes won't last and he'll turn cr*p again, basically he's lucky where he is and it'll all come crumbling down.
Why can't we all see the good that he's doing for the club, the players clearly LOVE playing for Ole, look at the reactions of the players at the end of the Villa game, Pogba's comments last night. Ole is the right man for the club it would be a travesty if he were to get sacked now or in the near future. We're back to where we belong and have a great chance to go 6 points clear at the weekend. What's not to like? Even if we in #21 fans would still poop on it.
The easy and short answer, as I don't have time and energy right now to take a big discussion, is this: His style of play, he relies on individual players rather than some sort of pattern, tactics in general (still can't make a working defense, set-pieces, and basic positional play), he hasn't won anything and despite spending over 200 million pounds the excuse is still that he needs more money and players, which exemplifies my point that he relies on good individual players rather than style. Also the fact that he bought James and especially AWB, I can't see the logic behind such money for such limited players if your ambition is to be the leading team in Europe. Would Pep or Klopp but or even play AWB No way. If he can't play his best player, the team is very poor. You can even argue that we are not very good even if just Bruno is missing. Yes, we are in a good position and as I have said, he has done some good things and I know that the next manager will have an easier job. Ole has done a better job building the squad than LvG, Moyes, and Jose. But just because he has done that, doesn't say that he's the right man for United to win PL and CL. I don't think Ole will win PL or CL during his lifetime. Hope I'm wrong!
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Yes and alot will still bring up Cardiff , and Call him out of his depth, say he is a PE Teacher etc. Well done to Ole and all the players and Coaching Staff , I think the football has not been nearly as bad as some make out and alot of it I really enjoy , & Some of it is brilliant . It does make me question some of the posters on here and wether they were around when Fergie was in Charge ? Because I have been supporting United since the start of the 80s and I can assure you during the Glory years Not every game United played Scintillating football . Quite a few games were ground out by Wearing teams down . Where do you think the term "Fergie time " came from ? winning games in Stoppage time when we struggled to break teams down in 90 minutes. Ole has United the team again and they look like they are willing to fight and Im loving it . while Im sure the football will improve and I think its clear it has improved since he took over we need to enjoy these small moments on Our way back to the top . Well done Lads A big step forward last night.
You could use that argument for any team
Are Spurs the same team without Son & Kane - No. If one of them is out the team is still worse off.
Are Barcelonda the same team without Messi - No
Are PSG the same team without Mbappe - No
Are Liverpool the same team without VVD - No.
Ole definitely has a style of play and it changes depending on who we play, if after 2 years you cannot see what Ole is trying to do with the squad then I don't know what you want to see from him?
Not at all, you've taken a comment that wasn't about you and applied it to yourself as if I was attacking you when that was never the case. You're entitled to your opinion and are clearly able to think rationally and critically, however, there are about 3 posters (all of which we all know and have seen in action) in this forum who has consistently derailed threads with a barrage of negativity, moving of goalposts and absolute bollocks for the best part of a year. Said posters seem to have vanished from the forum in the last month or so if you check their login and posting activity, and I was just giving one of them a polite reminder that I haven't forgotten about the absolute scraping of the barrel postings I, and many others, have had to endure.
So don't worry @Mickson, this isn't about you.
His overall record is still good-great against the big teams and even in this season where we've dipped, we've beaten PSG and Leipzig in Europe.
See my reply to @Mickson. This isn't about you or anyone else that's been on the fence or has felt Solskjaer wasn't up to the job. Debate is healthy but there are a couple of posters who've vanished now we're winning and that's because they've posted nothing but vitriol for the best part of a year. As a famous philosopher once said:
No, Mourinho has the exact same problem, and that was one of the reasons he wasn't very successful here. Mourinho is not one of the best managers in the world anymore.
No, Barcelona is not the same team, again their manager is not very good.
PSG, no idea, but from what I've seen, they are not particularly impressive this season so probably not.
Liverpool is definitely the same team without VVD, they haven't changed their style or changed anything in particular. Obviously, they miss him, but their form hasn't changed very much since his injury (they were on their way down even last season). Liverpool is probably the greatest example of a clear style of play. I seem to remember they absolutely destroyed Arsenal with a B-team filled with no names a couple of seasons ago. They are really good despite some limited players because they have a clear style of play and everyone knows what they are doing.
I don't know, but if I was looking and found the right fit, I would probably change even though it would be harsh on Ole. Plenty of top clubs have changed their manager despite winning big titles even, so it's not against the norm.
Deary me. We literally play with very well trained, well coached, well practiced and proven patterns every game. We're the most consistent team in the league. Since Bruno signed (which enabled us to execute our style of play with confidence) we're the best team in England, with more points than the next best team, in Liverpool. Are you clinging on to the memory of caretaker manager Ole, who perhaps was finding his feet and working out his tactics with a miss mash of players? Because 2020 and so far, 2021 has been consistent, with a solid style of play.
How can't you see our patterns? We have our plan A- dominate games v's inferior, low block teams, slowly unlocking the door to 3 points, just like everybody else, even Pep and Klopp. We then have our plan B - counter superior teams with pace, power and quality, then we have our Plan C - throw the kitchen sink at teams when we're chasing a game.
And what's wrong with relying on individual brilliance? What is wrong with relying on a Pogba volley last night? Or the world class ability of Bruno, or the pace of Rashford/Martial forcing defenders to swing a leg at them and win a penalty? Isn't that exactly the reason top teams sign top players?
Don't you see most teams in world football rely on individual brilliance to win games?
Don't you see Liverpool are exactly the same - they knock the ball 50 yards up the pitch and press like maniacs and rely on individual brilliance from Salah or Mane?
Spurs - rely on Kane or Son on the counter?
City - rely on KDB to unlock doors and run their attacks?
Messi - consistently dragging Barca through games with individual brilliance every week?
Christ, would you prefer we were a team of bang average players like Burnley, who have no star players but a team of 11 hard working, top professionals?
I guess Fergies team of 2008 relied on Ronaldo & Rooney?
Lots of managers don't win trophies straight away. He's been rebuilding this team for 2 years, it needed major surgery. Yes he's spent £200m but he's also shipped out about £100m of players that were damaging for the club. So he's not spent £200m has he, he's spent £100m to improve the team dramatically. We were about 6th and now we're 3 points clear at the top of the league mate. Not bad for £50m net spend per year.
AWB has helped form one of the best defences in the PL whether you like it or not. Last season, no team in Europe had as many clean sheets as AWB, Maguire and the rest of the United defence. More clean sheets than Liverpool containing Van Dyck.
AWB is an excellent defensive RB. You can bet your hat that Klopp wishes he had AWB at his disposal when Trent AA was hooked off V's Southampton. There's no requirement to have an attacking fullback. Our style of play wins games differently to that of Liverpool and one or two other teams that play with attacking fullbacks. That doesn't mean that every fullback NEEDS to be attacking.
Dan James came in for peanuts and has assisted us as an impact player before, and may do so again. He's a squad player that wants to work hard and play for Ole and the badge. Liverpool have signed similar low risk players (Minamao, Tsimikas) who have arguably had less of an impact than Dan James. Do you criticise Klopp? Where's the logic behind signing those players? The exact same logic, they're adequate back-ups, and young, with low transfer fees. Just like Dan James.
I also doubt that Ole will win the PL this season, City will win the league. They're better than us. That's not the issue though is it. Optimistic fans, like myself wanted us to close the gap on the elite teams, with our young and learning squad. We're doing that. I don't understand how can you ignore the upward trajectory? Can't you see where he is taking us?
Some fans get offended when they don't get instant success. Like it's their divine right. Ole is slowly building something special here and long may it continue.
This is a really good characteristic of Ole’s team, they are capable of going on 10 game winning runs after a defeat.
I would be very interested to see them go clear at the top, they could surprise a lot of fans.
Listen Martia - you have clearly put LFC in your name aka Liverpool Football Club, so it’s obvious you’re a Liverpool fan. Why even pretend?
Nah im not giving him credit for PSG or leipzig considering he lost to them when it really mattered and all he needed was a draw in either game. If he got out of the group i'd give him credit for the wins.
The difference in performance between the first and second half has to go down as credit to Ole. Goes to show that the “in game management “ he gets crucified for is about more than just substitutions.
Whats wrong with our style? We score a lot of goals and a lot of good goals. We score some goals on the break, but its not like we are just lumping it up to a big striker and hope that the second ball bounces our way.
This whole patterns/individual brilliance argument is lazy as feck imo. There is not a single top team on the planet that does not rely on good players in some shape or form. And this "patterns of play" thing has become nothing more than a redcafe meme at this point. What does it even mean? Do Liverpool have set patterns? Spurs? I'd imagine if you attempted the same type of play every other attack you'd become incredibly predictable and thus easy to snuff out
Are you suggesting the team he inherited was capable of challenging for the title? Some spending was in order anyways and unlike his predecessors he has actually spent it well AWB might be shite going forward compared to TAA, but his twice the defender and then some and James was a low risk gamble
I can promise you that OGS knows a lot more about decision making in the final third than Klopp and Guardiola ever will.
If you have seen any U23-matches this season - you would not ask that question.
I think his point is just that he's living in the present, not last season...
Ole needs to attack this Pool team, genuinely they look very vulnerable and if Matip is out they literally have no CBs with any experience & means they lose Fabinho from DM which weakens them greatly. I will be so disappointed if we go there and play 5 at the back, they are out of form and this is a genuine 6 pointer.
yes this “pattern of play” is beyond a joke.
I actually heard Hoddle mention is against Watford.
it means nothing, and posters who continue to use it as a stick to beat the team with are ridiculous.
Honestly, some people just aren't worth arguing with. Last season, we were never making top 4 apparently, but we finished 3rd. Then suddenly that was still not good enough. This season, we had to make top 4, or he needed to go, yet here we are, top of the table, with more league points over the past year than managerial behemoths Klopp or Pep, with their squads of world superstars, and yet somehow it's still not good enough. If we win the league, some clowns will still be suggesting he quits while he's ahead, before his incompetence at the job rears its ugly head again.
People keep banging on about individual brilliance and patterns of play blah blah blah.
But the truth is, Ole has suffered from individual mistakes just as much as he's benefitted from individual brilliance during his tenure.
But the truth is, Ole has suffered from individual mistakes just as much as he's benefitted from individual brilliance during his tenure.
Exactly the same point I was coming here to make. 21 of our 34 league goals this season were scored after half time. We frequently look a better side in the second half.
Now the counter argument to that is 'he should have set us up better to begin with' and that argument has some merit, but its always going to be easier to make informed adjustments at the midway point rather than before. There are more 'knowns' to work with at half time.
Stats actually show that Ole's 'in game management' is pretty strong.
But that's very black and white way of thinking. So if we beat Liverpool this weekend but lose out the league to city, you won't give him credit for beating Liverpool.
As a player himself, probably. As a manager and coaching players to excelling there... eh... Pep is probably the best attacking manager of all time.
I mean a lot of that is patently untrue. Ever since the aberration against spurs we've conceded less than a goal per game in the league, so we have been doing something right defensively. The tactics again, are such a subjective and circular argument because I can show you goals and games where we've clearly worked on something and implemented it in the match (Cavani's goal v Everton, Bruno's against Leicester are two particular stand outs with a striker dropping deep and collecting off a defender's ball through the lines). Also, the money argument is stupid because of the 270m he spent, 100m at a minimum came from player sales. Also AWB was linked strongly to City at the same time as the initial links with Utd came about, so Pep obviously saw something in him as well.
When we win: individual brilliance
When we lose : Ole is a PE teacher who cannot coach these worldclass players
The system might change but the fundamentals are always there. The people who can't see it, aren't genuine in their appraisals, IMO.
Sitting in the dark waiting to start shouting when we lose again
Must be so much fun.And still crying about subs
Exactly this.
He does try set us up like that, I saw him in the first half telling the players, play our game, play football which means he did set them up to play the way he wanted however; Burnley came out aggressive and we played into their hands giving away free kicks and getting involved with the physical side.
The players are paid all this money to find solutions on the pitch themselves too. We can all have a go at the manager, players need to take more responsibility which is what Ole is doing.
You can see that now, players are taking it upon themselves to change things, this is a mentality shift.
Last season, we would not have won against Brighton, Wolves, Burnley.
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