"Big Data" in football...

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
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Has made it worse. Think about it, when was the last time you saw a manager make a second half tactical substitution before the 70th minute? It's so rare now. Do you know why they don't? I think it's because statistically most goals occur after the 70th minute so having high intensity fresh legs in that period gives you the most theoretical advantage in terms of forcing the tired opposition defence into a mistake.

However, winning games isn't just about how much you run, whether you're in the red zone, how many mistakes you can force the opposition into with a high press. It's about combining talent and desire, it's about having players run through brick walls to get on the end of the winner, it's about psychology. Or at least it used to be.

If as a player you've had a shit first half, the manager gives you a bollocking at half time and tells you what you need to do better in the 2nd, you need both the carrot of enjoying playing better / winning in the 2nd half, combined with the stick of fearing getting the hook after 55 minutes if you don't start doing better what the manager has told you to.

But with this cowardly data driven style of football we see now, you'll never get the hook on 55 minutes, the manager will wait until the 75th minute to do something anyway. It's all about the negative tactic of finding the best odds of forcing a mistake from the opposition, rather than the positive narrative of constructing a better way of playing for your own team.

Or to look at it another way, would Riquelme have ever been signed to a European side if people looked at his Opta data? Here's a memorable, special player that people still talk about 20 years later, but he barely broke out into a jog once a game, no chance anybody would have taken a gamble on the guy.

Data can't quantify the stories, the drama, the mercurial genius, the psychological battles that are a key part of what has always made football special. It's making the game (and the wider world but that's another story) more boring. Can we ever go back? Will there ever again be a manager brave / great enough to break away from boring big data and still win?
 

OleBoiii

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God damn nerds ruining everything! I miss the days when footballers were ugly, unfit and unshaven. The Three U's.
 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
Has made it worse. Think about it, when was the last time you saw a manager make a second half tactical substitution before the 70th minute? It's so rare now. Do you know why they don't? I think it's because statistically most goals occur after the 70th minute so having high intensity fresh legs in that period gives you the most theoretical advantage in terms of forcing the tired opposition defence into a mistake.

However, winning games isn't just about how much you run, whether you're in the red zone, how many mistakes you can force the opposition into with a high press. It's about combining talent and desire, it's about having players run through brick walls to get on the end of the winner, it's about psychology. Or at least it used to be.

If as a player you've had a shit first half, the manager gives you a bollocking at half time and tells you what you need to do better in the 2nd, you need both the carrot of enjoying playing better / winning in the 2nd half, combined with the stick of fearing getting the hook after 55 minutes if you don't start doing better what the manager has told you to.

But with this cowardly data driven style of football we see now, you'll never get the hook on 55 minutes, the manager will wait until the 75th minute to do something anyway. It's all about the negative tactic of finding the best odds of forcing a mistake from the opposition, rather than the positive narrative of constructing a better way of playing for your own team.

Or to look at it another way, would Riquelme have ever been signed to a European side if people looked at his Opta data? Here's a memorable, special player that people still talk about 20 years later, but he barely broke out into a jog once a game, no chance anybody would have taken a gamble on the guy.

Data can't quantify the stories, the drama, the mercurial genius, the psychological battles that are a key part of what has always made football special. It's making the game (and the wider world but that's another story) more boring. Can we ever go back? Will there ever again be a manager brave / great enough to break away from boring big data and still win?
Tuchel did against us last Sunday.
 

Wumminator

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I was thinking the other day that football is missing flair players more than ever. Too many teams can’t risk losing the ball so we get repetitive fixtures constantly.
 

Bobade

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All of the points in your opening post could reasonably be analysed if football clubs were using big data to the extent you say. Everything can be analysed by data on a aggregate scale.

The demise of flair players will happen when people are obsessed with "the system" though. Styles change as well. The footballing zeitgeist gets found out, then it changes, just like everything else.
 

bosnian_red

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Or to look at it another way, would Riquelme have ever been signed to a European side if people looked at his Opta data? Here's a memorable, special player that people still talk about 20 years later, but he barely broke out into a jog once a game, no chance anybody would have taken a gamble on the guy.
They probably would, as the data is quite good at picking up progressive passing and the direct role players have in the build up to good positions or chances. If anything, it'll be easier to see who is just neat and tidy on the ball but effectively just someone who makes safe passes, to someone who knows how to push the ball into dangerous areas effectively.
 

tomaldinho1

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I was thinking the other day that football is missing flair players more than ever. Too many teams can’t risk losing the ball so we get repetitive fixtures constantly.
This is a wider theme in football to do with sports science in my opinion. Players are that little more even physically and full backs have massively evolved in the last 10 years or so - it's much harder to take players on and it's very rare to see a player actually take someone on if there is a pass available. There's lots of long balls or recycling of possession and way less man vs man individual battles.

Greenwood does try it for us and Rashford had a spell where he was doing a lot of tricks - remember that glorious goal he created for Pogba with the skill versus B'mouth but it's such a rarity for us now. It will only keep becoming more and more robotic as more and more money comes in because it's become about risk mitigation whilst pursuing points rather than entertainment for fans. Which, in fairness, links to the OP because every coach is now shit scared of losing the ball and being countered.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Has made it worse. Think about it, when was the last time you saw a manager make a second half tactical substitution before the 70th minute? It's so rare now. Do you know why they don't? I think it's because statistically most goals occur after the 70th minute so having high intensity fresh legs in that period gives you the most theoretical advantage in terms of forcing the tired opposition defence into a mistake.

However, winning games isn't just about how much you run, whether you're in the red zone, how many mistakes you can force the opposition into with a high press. It's about combining talent and desire, it's about having players run through brick walls to get on the end of the winner, it's about psychology. Or at least it used to be.

If as a player you've had a shit first half, the manager gives you a bollocking at half time and tells you what you need to do better in the 2nd, you need both the carrot of enjoying playing better / winning in the 2nd half, combined with the stick of fearing getting the hook after 55 minutes if you don't start doing better what the manager has told you to.

But with this cowardly data driven style of football we see now, you'll never get the hook on 55 minutes, the manager will wait until the 75th minute to do something anyway. It's all about the negative tactic of finding the best odds of forcing a mistake from the opposition, rather than the positive narrative of constructing a better way of playing for your own team.

Or to look at it another way, would Riquelme have ever been signed to a European side if people looked at his Opta data? Here's a memorable, special player that people still talk about 20 years later, but he barely broke out into a jog once a game, no chance anybody would have taken a gamble on the guy.

Data can't quantify the stories, the drama, the mercurial genius, the psychological battles that are a key part of what has always made football special. It's making the game (and the wider world but that's another story) more boring. Can we ever go back? Will there ever again be a manager brave / great enough to break away from boring big data and still win?
Actually, the analytics suggest that most managers are too conservative with their substitutions and should regularly be taking players off at half-time, like Tuchel has been doing regularly as a for instance.