Absolutely it would have been more impressive, even if we were at the level those clubs were when we started.
Man City 2020/21 - General discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I didn't say it is that impressive, that's up to discussion. I'd argue that the way Guardiola has dealt with such resources is in any case impressive, but I won't get mad if someone states the opposite, especially not on a United forum.
Ake has played almost twice the minutes in the league so there is a big difference.
That’s because we have sold a few more expensive flops/deadwoods few years back (since Pep joined City), which doesn’t count to our current squad.
- Lukaku 80m
- Mkhitarian 30m
- Schneidelin 24m
- Depay 16m
- Blind 14m
- Rojo 16m
- Herrera 36m
That’s down to 100m difference.
Claiming their success is purely down to money is disingenuous and does our own club a disservice by giving the people managing our club and excuse for constant failure.
You were already considerably better than us when Pep took over but the extra 300 million you spent over Chelsea does help.
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Then read again. People have been slating the people managing our club all the time, in this and several other threads.
You miss my point. Their success is not purely down to money and we need to look at the other things they have done besides that so we can learn.
City have spent a lot of money but is anyone in this thread asking why most of their big money signings work out and achieve their full potential while ours' struggle?
Their success is Purely down to money.
This isn't a sporting achievement. This is what was planned by money men in 2008. Chelsea did the exact same thing in 2003.
This ain't special lads. It's grotesque
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A lot of that has to do with money.
Then they also spend it wisely and mostly have a plan while we mostly have made big signings in the past without any plan and some players not even wanting to be here.
Look at the difference between Di Maria and Bruno for example. One probably never wanted to come here, the other couldn’t be happier to be here.
Obviously having Pep helps, but they need him as much as he needs them (because there’s not another similar rich club left for him unless he wants to manage in France).
But as I said all the above has been discussed on this forum in several threads and Pep is obviously being recognised by most as top 3 managers in the world along with Klopp and Zidane.
So if we had Ole at the wheel we would have been doing the same? records, PL titles, Cl finals? That has all come under Pep so surely if it is just money then Mancinin coul;d have done it, and Pellers, Fat sam too.
You really believe that?
One!! And first semi in 5 years, no idea why you are writing finals.And to answer your question, no, Ole wouldn’t have won 3 league titles as he is not as good as Pep, but he would have probably won 1 or 2. Even Pellegrini won a title.
But then Pep would have not won 3 titles at United with our squad (like he has done at City).
And he would not have achieved Klopp‘s success at Liverpool with Klopp‘s spending.
So club structure and having owners who care about success on the pitch do matter a lot. Otherwise the manager has to get a lot of things right with small margin for error in order to compensate for the incompetence of the owners.
If you have some sort of algorhythm that determines managers's quality, you should sell it to clubs around Europe. That kind of sophisticated knowledge is priceless.
I did not know football started 5 years ago.
Arbitrarily?
I just looked for weekly salaries on sportrac, not ideal but an indication. Stones, Walker, Dias, Laporte, all on 5 figures and Ake on 92k with Mendy on 90k.
Liverpool only have VvD and Matip on 5 figures. Next it's Gomez and TAA on 75k. Robertson is on 50k, which is just 4k over of Steffen (since you arbitrarily brought him up
).And that's before we get into dodgy dealings.
Edit: and Utd have three defenders on 5 figures but they are bona fida a huge world wide brand.
If you had Sam maybe even earlier.
Thanks.
If anything, maintaining elite level of football with a stacked squad is less common than overachieving with (more or less relative) underdog for a limited period of time. Much less common.
I don't understand why people who don't recognize the impact Guardiola has on his teams watch football. It's so obvious how well he sets his teams up. The way they behave under pressure, how organized their positional game is, how great their runs in the final third are orchestrated, etc. Those are patterns of play that come down to a great manager and if you don't see them, football must be incredibly dull for you.
I'm not saying this is THE way of playing football, by the way. There are other coaches with a very remarkable handwriting as well. But you can't buy this stuff, it has to be coached into the players and personally, I only remember a select few coaches who have such an impact on how their team plays.
I'm not saying this is THE way of playing football, by the way. There are other coaches with a very remarkable handwriting as well. But you can't buy this stuff, it has to be coached into the players and personally, I only remember a select few coaches who have such an impact on how their team plays.
I am aware that people are mostly interested only in final result and banter, but it still amazes me that they can't see something so blatantly obvious.
Tribalism surely? City have had money since 2008, only since Pep (2016) has it been a major problem for the rest of the red teams, since then human rights, spending, Pep taking bungs, etc. I dont think he will ever be accepted in this country as talented. Which is fair enough, it is quite tribal in this country, thats just the way it goes.
Yeah, it never ceases to amaze me that people allow themselves to be that influenced in their judgment by something as trivial as the club they support. If you're so biased that you can't tell apart quality and mediocrity anymore, you've taken this whole support thing way too far.
If this is what you tell yourself, nothing I can do.
It's not just that. To this day, there are still people who will passionately argue how peak Barcelona was boring, overrated, and helped by referees. It's almost like a staunch preference for ugliness and cynicism im football.
Looks like you spend too much time on bluemoon and "Media hates us" threads.
Plenty of people have said they love the way Pep sets up to play. These comments fall on deaf ears to suit the other side's narrative. If Pep managed West Ham they would be great to watch and successful, not win the league or anything but successful.
His qualities are clearly more than just the immoral and illegal money. But when will we show us that? I don't mean manage West ham but an AC Milan, or an Arsenal. Or even Utd!?
I had a quick look on that Blue Moan forum to see how they were looking forward to the CL final, but all I could find were threads about us.
Even the threads that weren't about us to begin with, ended up being about us in the end. Even the Glazer protest, they have somehow attributed it to
being all about stopping them from winning the title!! Nothing to do with the maximum exposure of getting the PL's biggest global fixture called off, and spreading the message worldwide in one fell swoop. Nope, we wanted to stop Phil Foden from tweeting a picture of his eyebrows with a glass of champagne!! You've rumbled us, lads!!
There does seem to be a bizarre group of oddballs on there, who are like jilted ex-lovers who can't seem to let go of their bitterness. They have something that can only be described as "Rag Tourette's".
This is where everything that happens in their entire existence, funnels towards the same conclusion. My cat has died, "Rags!". My Tesco delivery was late, "Rags!" Nobody cares when we win a game, "Rags!" I lost my job, "Rags!"
The best tin foil hat conspiracy today was the one that our 79 year old, 8 years retired, ex manager was giving motivational speeches to PSG's foreign legion of hired mercenaries. Just think about that for a second. "Och, Neymar, make sure ye cut in on yer right, as ye cannee shoot with yer left."
Fergie and Pochettino happen to be friends going back a decade. The way these people's minds work is truly psychotic.
It must be so tiresome to be on that forum, it was for me and I was only on there for a few minutes. All threads merge into the same subject matter. Not only is it dull and repetitive, it is weird. Prestwich Blue and Karen need to seek professional help. Others too. I think they all get energy from each others miserable outlook on everything.
Instead of celebrating their new found fortune, they are still crying in the rain, watching their ex partner through the kitchen window.
"Look at me, I've been to the Gym. I've got muscles now, and I've dyed my hair (with a slightly blue tinge.) I have new teeth, and I don't cry wank anymore. Please give me some credit, please notice that I exist. Please....please...."
Even the threads that weren't about us to begin with, ended up being about us in the end. Even the Glazer protest, they have somehow attributed it to
being all about stopping them from winning the title!! Nothing to do with the maximum exposure of getting the PL's biggest global fixture called off, and spreading the message worldwide in one fell swoop. Nope, we wanted to stop Phil Foden from tweeting a picture of his eyebrows with a glass of champagne!! You've rumbled us, lads!!
There does seem to be a bizarre group of oddballs on there, who are like jilted ex-lovers who can't seem to let go of their bitterness. They have something that can only be described as "Rag Tourette's".
This is where everything that happens in their entire existence, funnels towards the same conclusion. My cat has died, "Rags!". My Tesco delivery was late, "Rags!" Nobody cares when we win a game, "Rags!" I lost my job, "Rags!"
The best tin foil hat conspiracy today was the one that our 79 year old, 8 years retired, ex manager was giving motivational speeches to PSG's foreign legion of hired mercenaries. Just think about that for a second. "Och, Neymar, make sure ye cut in on yer right, as ye cannee shoot with yer left."
Fergie and Pochettino happen to be friends going back a decade. The way these people's minds work is truly psychotic.
It must be so tiresome to be on that forum, it was for me and I was only on there for a few minutes. All threads merge into the same subject matter. Not only is it dull and repetitive, it is weird. Prestwich Blue and Karen need to seek professional help. Others too. I think they all get energy from each others miserable outlook on everything.
Instead of celebrating their new found fortune, they are still crying in the rain, watching their ex partner through the kitchen window.
"Look at me, I've been to the Gym. I've got muscles now, and I've dyed my hair (with a slightly blue tinge.) I have new teeth, and I don't cry wank anymore. Please give me some credit, please notice that I exist. Please....please...."
Think this is a reaction to a perceived "holier than thou" attitude. It's a counter movement to what they see as overcomplication of football because they don't want to accept that the sport might be more complex than they understand.
Moreover, this might also come down to tribalism. Many United fans see it as a affront against Ferguson if you rate Guardiola as one or possible the best manager of all time. Ferguson never played systems as complex as the ones played by Pep and for them, praising him probably takes something away from their idol.
Pep has taken five years to get to the final and to be fair to Mancini and Pellegrini, they weren’t around for five years. He’s clearly superior to both but you lot reaching the CL final was the most inevitable thing in football.
Yes, a lot of people (armchair managers, we need to be very specific about the people we are speaking of) genuinely believe that Big Sam with a similar amount of spending, could do what Pep has done.
Strangely enough, they seem to believe that someone who's been lauded by many (of his peers, as opposed to armchair managers) as one of the great tacticians in the sport, would somehow struggle, given a relative lack of resources. Like long ball brexit football is beyond his comprehension, or Bielsa hasn't shown with a squad of average players what is possible.
I think its quite easily to regard Pep as a great coach, top 3 in the world right now, who is responsible for a lot of City`s success in recent years while at the same time assessing that the reason they`ve reached the CL final is also a lot down to being able to spend endless amount of cash. They wouldn`t be where they are right now with their pre 2008 budget, Pep or not.
Bringing up United as a reason why money apparently doesn`t count because they "almost" spent as much as City is just a strawmen because that is just one club with bad management while there are multiple other clubs that are not taken into the equation.
Bringing up United as a reason why money apparently doesn`t count because they "almost" spent as much as City is just a strawmen because that is just one club with bad management while there are multiple other clubs that are not taken into the equation.
I had a quick look on that Blue Moan forum to see how they were looking forward to the CL final, but all I could find were threads about us.
Even the threads that weren't about us to begin with, ended up being about us in the end. Even the Glazer protest, they have somehow attributed it to
being all about stopping them from winning the title!! Nothing to do with the maximum exposure of getting the PL's biggest global fixture called off, and spreading the message worldwide in one fell swoop. Nope, we wanted to stop Phil Foden from tweeting a picture of his eyebrows with a glass of champagne!! You've rumbled us, lads!!
There does seem to be a bizarre group of oddballs on there, who are like jilted ex-lovers who can't seem to let go of their bitterness. They have something that can only be described as "Rag Tourette's".
This is where everything that happens in their entire existence, funnels towards the same conclusion. My cat has died, "Rags!". My Tesco delivery was late, "Rags!" Nobody cares when we win a game, "Rags!" I lost my job, "Rags!"
The best tin foil hat conspiracy today was the one that our 79 year old, 8 years retired, ex manager was giving motivational speeches to PSG's foreign legion of hired mercenaries. Just think about that for a second. "Och, Neymar, make sure ye cut in on yer right, as ye cannee shoot with yer left."
Fergie and Pochettino happen to be friends going back a decade. The way these people's minds work is truly psychotic.
It must be so tiresome to be on that forum, it was for me and I was only on there for a few minutes. All threads merge into the same subject matter. Not only is it dull and repetitive, it is weird. Prestwich Blue and Karen need to seek professional help. Others too. I think they all get energy from each others miserable outlook on everything.
Instead of celebrating their new found fortune, they are still crying in the rain, watching their ex partner through the kitchen window.
"Look at me, I've been to the Gym. I've got muscles now, and I've dyed my hair (with a slightly blue tinge.) I have new teeth, and I don't cry wank anymore. Please give me some credit, please notice that I exist. Please....please...."
haha it is shite, there used to be some good city forums, wookieslair, Blue View etc, but bluemoon does have loads of nutters, I see the same in lots of people in this thread mind, I think it's more a childish football thing for some people who just can't grow up
Sorry to say, but the City squad today is probably the best squad in PL the last 10y, maybe 20y. Almost all players have incredible technical skills; able to control the ball and get out of very tight situations.
That's in line with what I'm thinking. Some people seem to be allergic to 'fancy stuff' in football and will always try to devalue it.
This.
If you can't recognise the impact that manager has had on that club and how well organised the football sides of things are, then I have nothing for you.
I am 100% confident, that club wouldn't be this dominant over 5 years under any other manager.
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Can't blame the best for wanting to work with the best. This has always been the case, footballers and managers alike.
I'd also love if he joins a smaller club and leads it to glory but it won't happen and I can't blame him.
Well said sir. This should be stickied in the bluemoon goes into meltdown thread.I had a quick look on that Blue Moan forum to see how they were looking forward to the CL final, but all I could find were threads about us.
Even the threads that weren't about us to begin with, ended up being about us in the end. Even the Glazer protest, they have somehow attributed it to
being all about stopping them from winning the title!! Nothing to do with the maximum exposure of getting the PL's biggest global fixture called off, and spreading the message worldwide in one fell swoop. Nope, we wanted to stop Phil Foden from tweeting a picture of his eyebrows with a glass of champagne!! You've rumbled us, lads!!
There does seem to be a bizarre group of oddballs on there, who are like jilted ex-lovers who can't seem to let go of their bitterness. They have something that can only be described as "Rag Tourette's".
This is where everything that happens in their entire existence, funnels towards the same conclusion. My cat has died, "Rags!". My Tesco delivery was late, "Rags!" Nobody cares when we win a game, "Rags!" I lost my job, "Rags!"
The best tin foil hat conspiracy today was the one that our 79 year old, 8 years retired, ex manager was giving motivational speeches to PSG's foreign legion of hired mercenaries. Just think about that for a second. "Och, Neymar, make sure ye cut in on yer right, as ye cannee shoot with yer left."
Fergie and Pochettino happen to be friends going back a decade. The way these people's minds work is truly psychotic.
It must be so tiresome to be on that forum, it was for me and I was only on there for a few minutes. All threads merge into the same subject matter. Not only is it dull and repetitive, it is weird. Prestwich Blue and Karen need to seek professional help. Others too. I think they all get energy from each others miserable outlook on everything.
Instead of celebrating their new found fortune, they are still crying in the rain, watching their ex partner through the kitchen window.
"Look at me, I've been to the Gym. I've got muscles now, and I've dyed my hair (with a slightly blue tinge.) I have new teeth, and I don't cry wank anymore. Please give me some credit, please notice that I exist. Please....please...."
I must admit I enjoy the forum. I love how obsessed with us they are.
Pep is the best of the bunch, IMO, but I don't know, there are quite a bunch of great managers out there nowadays who perform under less ideal circumstances and might be a bit underrated. Tuchel e. g. He was seen as a second class manager but he really has transformed Chelsea for the better in the few months. The work he did at Mainz, Dortmund and PSG never really earned him the (international) reputation he deserved. Klopp is also very successful over sustained periods of time - yes, he has the occasional crisis ridden season but to be fair to him, mostly these are result crises when they severely underperform their xG.
But that shall take nothing away from Guardiola. People take City's dominance for granted but it is by no means.
This will be the 8th time in 12 seasons his team is getting a 90+ points, his win ratio in over a decade of football is about 70%. He is the best manager in the world and that's our biggest problem.
How many of City's players were the caf clamouring for before they signed for City? All of a sudden they are a squad full of "amazing players". You guys should come off it. I hate their success as much as the next guy but I believe I am reasonable and objective enough to recognise good work?
He has a habit of getting the best out of his players consistently. That's what nobody wants to admit here. City's owners have been here since 2008. They didn't just appear. Yes money is a factor but let's not be blinkered here.
Saying that, feck em and I won't be watching the final.
How many of City's players were the caf clamouring for before they signed for City? All of a sudden they are a squad full of "amazing players". You guys should come off it. I hate their success as much as the next guy but I believe I am reasonable and objective enough to recognise good work?
He has a habit of getting the best out of his players consistently. That's what nobody wants to admit here. City's owners have been here since 2008. They didn't just appear. Yes money is a factor but let's not be blinkered here.
Saying that, feck em and I won't be watching the final.
You’re over thinking it mate. City were purely phenomenal in taking control after being dominated. They’re looking untouchable like Peps Barca team unfortunately. All without a striker..