England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

[RazorOz]

I can see him starting Grealish and maybe even Sancho in the next game but even if it goes well I expect him to revert to the familiar line up for the knockouts.

The formation is a big part of the problem, and clearly Kane isn't fully fit. I think Kane and Sterling will both start in the knockout rounds regardless of their form though sadly.

I hope and think he might actually make like 10 changes the last game. It's a low risk game in real terms, last night was unacceptable, there should be a chance for like anyone who has barely featured to shine, and if they do they should play the last 16. Like everyone who comes into the team should be motivated to shine, given you could argue no-one should be safe in the starting 11 for the last 16 game. I actually think Southgate will make these changes as it makes no sense really to keep ploughing on near the same 11 with games packed together so close, especially after last night, there's no point half the squad being there if they aren't going to get a look in after that.

I hope we field a team like this:

Pickford (you could change, but Pickford is obviously #1 so a bit pointless really)
Trippier/Walker Maguire ? (Could be anyone, maybe one area you want to try out the expected, as Maguire has just been missing through injury) Chilwell
Henderson Bellingham
Grealish
Sancho Rashford
Calvert-Lewin

I'd like to see something like that. It's a bit attacking in the midfield, but that's by virtue of the only real 2 DM's in the squad have played every minute so far, and there's no-one else to really play there in the squad. You wouldn't go quite that attacking in the last 16 of course, but it wouldn't surprise me if this team looks much better than the apparent first XI fielded so far. And anyone that shines should be straight into the team, as who on earth has shone so far?

Also England struggling to break teams down/create chances has been true nearly every game recently. It was the same vs Croatia, same both friendlies in warm up, same vs Poland in March. It's really alarming given the attacking talent in the squad, it's actually another reason to go with a lineup like the one above, Grealish can pick the ball up from a bit deeper and create from there rather than the wide areas where it's harder to impact the game if we have no control in midfield.

 

[sillwuka]

Positives - Pickford is looking very solid and he's without a doubt England's best keeper.

 

[saivet]

Really poor performance from us yesterday. I'd make a few changes in the Czech game, assuming we use the same system.

Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw
Rice
Bellingham, Mount
Sancho, Kane, Grealish​

 

[fergies coat]

The attacking talent in this squad is significantly better than what we had available in Euro 2004. We were so lacking in offensive depth that our best midfielder had to play left wing. Going forward we were hugely reliant on an 18 year old having his break out tournament, and outside of our first XI (who weren’t much cop going forward outside of Rooney) we were turning to Heskey and Darius Vassell to freshen things up. Personally rate Sancho and Rashford higher.

And dropping names with no context is a tad pointless. Joe Cole didn’t kick a ball at Euro 2004. Owen was already on the decline and not the player he’d been three years ago. Gerrard was in his early career CM incarnation playing a two-man holding midfield role and you wouldn’t include him when talking about our offensive options.

The Euro 96 squad had a good attack and is more comparable to the calibre we have here (not quite as good though IMO across the squad). Kane and Shearer are similar figure head number #9s. On the wings McManaman was of a comparable reputation to Sterling / Rashford, but Anderton a level below. Sheringham rounded off that front four, but again I would say that Grealish is just as good and he’s coming into the tournament with higher expectations. In terms of strength in depth the current squad is definitely ahead. A lot of the Euro 96 depth was focused in one position (Fowler and Ferdinand pushing for a starting berth but ultimately not required given Shearer’s form, Cole from your list wasn’t in the squad). On the flanks and in midfield there was less depth than this England team which is where it was needed.

This is definitely a young squad but there’s a huge amount of talent within it and you’re letting Southgate off the hook by using that as an excuse to underachieve. All teams are unproven until they actually win something, at which point they suddenly aren’t. Equally, prior success isn’t a guarantee of anything. And the majority of these players are more than proven at domestic and continental level, certainly proven enough to play a bit better against Scotland at home. This is England’s best chance at tournament success in a while and he needs to get more out of the side offensively. As an example we’ve got one of the most dangerous wingers in European football who still can’t get a kick despite our problems posing a consistent threat in attack, whilst he persists in playing two defensive midfielders to compound the problem (and who genuinely are pretty unproven, bizarrely).

The euro 96 squad was much better than this one, and Grealish much better than Sheringham? Are you having a laugh? He might become better but at the minute he isn't.

Seaman
Neville
Adams
Southgate
Pearce
Anderton
Gazza
Ince
Mcmanaman
Sheringham
Shearer

Then two years later going into France 98 we add Beckham, Scholes, Campbell and Owen.

We are just over hyping a young squad again who haven't achieved anything.

 

[InspiRED]

Other posters have said it. It is just cowardice from Southgate, these subs he’s making on 70 minutes are infuriating. I can’t believe we couldn’t get the ball off Scotland in the last ten minutes. Rashford as cf just no. Foden is getting too much criticism he played pretty well, leave him on and grealish. Phillips played a blinder in the last game but rice Phillips - maybe against a better team - but not against Scotland who needed points from this game. Sancho doesn’t get a kick. It’s actually horrifying watching this happen with the quality available for once.

at least Ole doesn’t have many better options.

 

[Matt851]

England were poor, the worry is that just switching personel at this stage wont be enough to make them less stodgy. I would do the following:

- ask kane to play further up the pitch as more of a classic no 9 and if that doesnt work play Calvert Lewin instead (not rashford who is a wide forward)
- start bellingham alongside rice or phillips in the next game (i found it mystifying he didnt come on yesterday)
- play grealish instead of foden in the left side of the attack with sterling on the right (with sancho to come on if sterling doesnt perform)
- pick a pair of full backs to use throughout the rest of the tournament. Southgate seems determined to rotate in this area but i don't think that helps anyone or allows them to develop an understanding with the rest of the defence and midfield

Ultimately southgate is a fairly average cautious manager who england may need to replace to progress. His decision making this tournament is becoming increasingly mystifying

 

[Theon]

The euro 96 squad was much better than this one, and Grealish much better than Sheringham? Are you having a laugh? He might become better but at the minute he isn't.

Yeah, I don’t really think you have a clue what you’re talking about, hence why a load of players you mentioned as being part of the squad either weren’t actually picked or didn’t kick a ball. As I explained you’re also just rattling of names with no context on those players or the stage of their careers. The original comment I made was also about the offensive depth and quality of this squad, and you’re trying to expand it out to the defence rather than engage on the actual point.

The Euro 2004 squad was miles below this one in terms of attacking depth. Euro 96 was comparable, but lacked any depth on the wings and midfield which is where it was needed. It was Redknapps slick passing in midfield that turned the tide against Scotland and we have better depth to turn to in this squad.

On the quoted part above, where did I say Grealish was “much better than Sheringham”? What I said was: “Sheringham rounded off that front four, but again I would say that Grealish is just as good and he’s coming into the tournament with higher expectations”. Which I stand behind, they’re players of comparable quality and Grealish is coming in with greater furore.

Southgate is getting no where near the quality he should be out of this team offensively and you’re just excusing mediocrity. As I said last night the point around being unproven doesn’t have much credence behind it. All teams are unproven at some point and if it was a barrier to future success the same team would win every year. This England squad is coming of the back of a World Cup semi-final and seven of them started the Champions League final a few weeks ago, so it’s a weird definition of unproven anyway.

 

[fergies coat]

Yeah, I don’t really think you have a clue what you’re talking about, hence why a load of players you mentioned as being part of the squad either weren’t actually picked or didn’t kick a ball. As I explained you’re also just rattling of names with no context on those players or the stage of their careers. The original comment I made was also about the offensive depth and quality of this squad, and you’re trying to expand it out to the defence rather than engage on the actual point.

The Euro 2004 squad was miles below this one in terms of attacking depth. Euro 96 was comparable, but lacked any depth on the wings and midfield which is where it was needed. It was Redknapps slick passing in midfield that turned the tide against Scotland and we have better depth to turn to in this squad.

On the quoted part above, where did I say Grealish was “much better than Sheringham”? What I said was: “Sheringham rounded off that front four, but again I would say that Grealish is just as good and he’s coming into the tournament with higher expectations”. Which I stand behind, they’re players of comparable quality and Grealish is coming in with greater furore.

Southgate is getting no where near the quality he should be out of this team offensively and you’re just excusing mediocrity. As I said last night the point around being unproven doesn’t have much credence behind it. All teams are unproven at some point and if it was a barrier to future success the same team would win every year. This England squad is coming of the back of a World Cup semi-final and seven of them started the Champions League final a few weeks ago, so it’s a weird definition of unproven anyway.

I'm not excusing Southgate of anything. He's not good enough obviously.

Let's not pretend England haven't had great squads in the past. Your talking like we've never been blessed with great player's before. We have and we have still failed. We have been through this cycle over and over again.

you clearly don't know what your talking about if you think this team has better midfield players than Ince and Gazza.

 

[Buster15]

Anyone else think Shaw was quite a big improvement today? I don't understand what Southgate is doing with his selections he seems confused.

Yes, definitely Shaw had a good game. As did the Villa center back. Won all the big headers.

 

[Buster15]

Positives - Pickford is looking very solid and he's without a doubt England's best keeper.

Yep. No problems there.

 

[RazorOz]

The euro 96 squad was much better than this one, and Grealish much better than Sheringham? Are you having a laugh? He might become better but at the minute he isn't.

Seaman
Neville
Adams
Southgate
Pearce
Anderton
Gazza
Ince
Mcmanaman
Sheringham
Shearer

Then two years later going into France 98 we add Beckham, Scholes, Campbell and Owen.

We are just over hyping a young squad again who haven't achieved anything.

This argument doesn't really wash. Most this squad and team have won leagues, cups, Champions Leagues. Indeed I'm near certain the current squad has achieved much more than the 1996 squad despite being a much younger squad. If you mean they haven't achieved anything with England, it's true, but that argument could be pointed to every England side since 1966. The level of this squad is much higher than 1996.

 

[AshRK]

 

[fergies coat]

This argument doesn't really wash. Most this squad and team have won leagues, cups, Champions Leagues. If you mean they haven't achieved anything with England, it's true, but that argument could be pointed to every England side since 1966. The level of this squad is much higher than 1996.

Foreign players were only just coming into the PL in 96. The only reason players like Foden and Mount have won anything is because of the foreign players.

 

[Mb194dc]

Would be much more entertaining if we played 4 3 3 with Grealish, Rice (or Phillips) and Mount (or Foden) in midfield. Then you can have Sterling, Kane, Sancho as the front 3.

Would also probably be like Lampards Chelsea and concede nearly 2 goals every game. Very hard tactically to play expensive system like that and not get exposed a lot.

Given Southgate's really limited managerial ability going 4231 conservative with no real creativity in midfield is the best way he can get results. It's dull as and we'll probably go out to the first decent team we meet

Plus ca change for England at major tournaments I guess.

 

[Castia]

Less shots on goal that North Fecking Macedonia.

He's backing himself into a corner with his team selections as well it isn't working and players like Sancho and Grealish are barely getting a look in. There's no creativity (in both games, we were poor against Croatia as well) and it feels like im watching United with the double pivot, I think in these games against the likes of Scotland (no disrespect) we could be more expansive and play maybe Bellingham or even mount in the 2.

 

[Carl]

England fans and media alike doing what we always do I see. Build England up to unrealistic expectations and then slaughter them when they fail to live up to them, accusing them of lacking passion and being overrated, despite it being those same people rating them so highly to begin with.

We played Croatia and won. We then played a derby game and drew, which as good as guarantees qualification to the next round.

The cycle will be complete when we put in a decent performance on Tuesday and beat the Czechs, when the media hype will peak, only to be brought back down to reality by Portugal in the next round and go out on penalties. The England players will lack "pashun" again in that game too.

 

[SuperiorXI]

The problem is clearly Southgate. What other manager would stick their best player on the bench? He's a sausage.

 

[Lee565]

I saw in the build up to the scotland game a website showing euro 96 line up against scotland, I forgot how attacking it was and more like something you would expect to see in todays game from managers like pep. we played 352 but had neville (naturally a right back) playing central defence, mcmanaman and anderton playing as wing backs, gazza in a 2 man midfield alongside ince and sas up front.

Could you imagine if we tried something like that with the current squad against the Czech..

________pickford
_____stones_maguire_shaw
Sancho_philips_grealish_mount
____________kane
_____________lewin

 

[Kentonio]

Don't understand the calls for England to play for a draw so they could finish 2nd (or 3rd) against the Czechs. Yes they could end up facing Sweden in the last 16 but they would lose their home advantage for the two games in last 16/QF and would have to travel to Copenhagen for Sweden and then play France in St Petersburg and by finishing 3rd and would end up having to play either the Dutch, Belgium or Spain in Rome and then Portugal in the QF's in Glasgow.

Be careful what you wish for is what I would say for anyone saying which is the better route. Win your game and take care of the rest.

All that playing for a draw stuff is horseshit. One moment of genius or silliness and you could end up out of the tournament. No-one is taking a risk like that.

 

[Carl]

I saw in the build up to the scotland game a website showing euro 96 line up against scotland, I forgot how attacking it was and more like something you would expect to see in todays game from managers like pep. we played 352 but had neville (naturally a right back) playing central defence, mcmanaman and anderton playing as wing backs, gazza in a 2 man midfield alongside ince and sas up front.

Could you imagine if we tried something like that with the current squad against the Czech..

________pickford
_____stones_maguire_shaw
Sancho_philips_grealish_mount
____________kane
_____________lewin

Thanks for clarifying that Gary Neville usually played right back on a Man Utd forum pal

Though to be a pedent, he wasn't "naturally" a right back. He was actually a CB but converted to a right back as he got a bit older.

 

[Dec9003]

Still feel like the team selection is a poor one from Southgate. Foden, Mount and Kane all want to do the same job, and I don’t necessarily think taking Foden out for Grealish or Sancho changes that. All creative players who would love a player to make a run and break the lines, I think Vardy would’ve been excellent in this England team. I feel a bit for Sterling really, I feel like England fans give their struggling players more stick than maybe some of the other nations do.

 

[red4ever 79]

Thanks for clarifying that Gary Neville usually played right back on a Man Utd forum pal

Though to be a pedent, he wasn't "naturally" a right back. He was actually a CB but converted to a right back as he got a bit older.

SAF moved him to RB due to his lack of height

 

[Matthew84!]

Seems like Southgate might want to finish second so we get a easy game in the next round but I think the round after we'll probably get France,
He has said unless we get to a semi final it'll be a failure, on that performance we've got no chance at all,

Sancho should start instead of Sterling as he's had his 1 good game, Kane plays better when he's got lots of pace around him, perhaps Rashford on the left?

 

[djembatheking]

Do people really think this team is better than 96?

 

[GMoore23]

We were poor against Croatia which was masked by the media wank-fest in classic England style.

The amount of attacking talent in this squad is the highest I can ever remember, and yet we’re absolutely terrible offensively. Southgate is so out of his depth here.

The double-DM disaster needs to end next game. One of Philipps or Rice, with two offensive #8’s is the way we need to go. Sterling has been really poor in both games, time for Sancho.

You don't remember when you had Gascoigne, Shearer, Ferdinand, Sheringham, Cole, Fowler.

 

[Wilt]

Can’t think of an England manager having as much depth of squad as Southgate.

And there lies the problem ……..Southgate.

 

[MU655]

Foreign players were only just coming into the PL in 96. The only reason players like Foden and Mount have won anything is because of the foreign players.

That is such a stupid take, considering Mount created the goal that won the Champion's League.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Stick Phillips as the pivot and put Bellingham in the position he's been playing. Phillips provides at least comparable cover to Rice and has a greater range of passing but he's poor on the turn and needs to have his face to goal in possession. From the admittedly little I've seen Bellingham is just a better offensive player.

 

[Buster15]

Do people really think this team is better than 96?

Venables was a much more adventurous manager than Southgate. And we have to remember that England made a very slow start.
Let's see how things develop as the tournament progresses.

 

[Buster15]

Stick Phillips as the pivot and put Bellingham in the position he's been playing. Phillips provides at least comparable cover to Rice and has a greater range of passing but he's poor on the turn and needs to have his face to goal in possession. From the admittedly little I've seen Bellingham is just a better offensive player.

I would agree with that. I keep looking at Rice and asking myself what he actually does.
I can probably accept that he a lot of work which is not too obvious, particularly protecting the defence. But England needs more than that.

 

[Theon]

You don't remember when you had Gascoigne, Shearer, Ferdinand, Sheringham, Cole, Fowler.

Think I’ve covered that in the posts which followed. Feel free to respond to them.

Yes I do remember. It was another great attack, but five of those players played in the same position (and the majority were #9s of which you’d only want to play one) which wasn’t needed with Shearer as the figure head up front. Cole wasn’t even picked in the squad. Where depth was required England were lighter than they are now. I do think it’s close, but it’s kind of irrelevant anyway. The point is we should be getting more out of our side offensively.

 

[djembatheking]

Venables was a much more adventurous manager than Southgate. And we have to remember that England made a very slow start.
Let's see how things develop as the tournament progresses.

It just doesn`t compare to me , Seaman was much better than Pickford and Neville,Southgate, Adams and Pearce was a much better back 4. You can`t compare Rice and Phillips to Gazza and Ince same as Kane to Shearer who was backed up by Sheringham and Fowler. Maybe the current wide players are better than Anderton and Macmanaman . I also agree with Venables being more adventurous but he had better players to work with.

 

[MU655]

Southgate has been a bit arrogant I feel with Sterling. He seems to think he knows more than Guardiola in this matter.

Instead of taking indirect advice from one of the best managers ever, Southgate decided to play Sterling on the left over Foden. It seems mad that he is moving Foden out of position to make room for the player he displaced on the left for City. People praise it as loyalty, but I call favouritism or bias. Sterling was dreadful all season and somehow he is getting rewarded with a first-team place for England. Foden, Grealish, and Rashford should be ahead of him.

We have a great team of attackers, but Southgate has failed to utilise them. We are playing to the strengths of our worst players rather than to the strengths of our best. It is so stupid.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

As usual the media hypes you lot up and the fans expectations go through the roof.

England have great individual talent, but they are not as good a team as they are made out to be. If the expectations of the team were lowered like at the last WC, the pressure on the team would be lower and you lot would go further imo.

Second game in and you were out fought, out ran by a Scotland side most had written off. England looked tired last night.
Why he continues to play Foden on the wrong side is baffling, hes been unplayable anytime ive seen him on the left. This is probably the most talented side yous have had in a while shame you have Southgate as manager.

Just hoping yous hammer the Czechs in the next game and Scotland take care of the Croats to go through to the next round.

 

[Buster15]

It just doesn`t compare to me , Seaman was much better than Pickford and Neville,Southgate, Adams and Pearce was a much better back 4. You can`t compare Rice and Phillips to Gazza and Ince same as Kane to Shearer who was backed up by Sheringham and Fowler. Maybe the current wide players are better than Anderton and Macmanaman . I also agree with Venables being more adventurous but he had better players to work with.

Yes indeed. I cannot argue with that, although they really did make a slow start.

 

[djembatheking]

As usual the media hypes you lot up and the fans expectations go through the roof.

England have great individual talent, but they are not as good a team as they are made out to be. If the expectations of the team were lowered like at the last WC, the pressure on the team would be lower and you lot would go further imo.

Second game in and you were out fought, out ran by a Scotland side most had written off. England looked tired last night.
Why he continues to play Foden on the wrong side is baffling, hes been unplayable anytime ive seen him on the left. This is probably the most talented side yous have had in a while shame you have Southgate as manager.

Just hoping yous hammer the Czechs in the next game and Scotland take care of the Croats to go through to the next round.

England were out fought and out ran by the Scots but crucially got the point which qualifies them for the next round whatever happens in the last game.
Scotland out fought and out ran a dreadful England side but only managed a point leaving them having to beat Croatia, who also need to win, in their final game to qualify.
It`s a funny old game.

 

[bosnian_red]

Stick Phillips as the pivot and put Bellingham in the position he's been playing. Phillips provides at least comparable cover to Rice and has a greater range of passing but he's poor on the turn and needs to have his face to goal in possession. From the admittedly little I've seen Bellingham is just a better offensive player.

Yeah, Bellingham in midfield next to Rice or Phillips would offer the best balance. I've Rice and think he should be the deepest guy but Phillips is good too. But a midfield 3 with Bellingham and Mount definitely provides the most balance.

Then to balance the attack you need a creator on one side and wide forward on the other side of Kane. For me, has to be one of Grealish or Sancho starting on one side, with Rashford if fit the perfect partner to Kane, and if not, then either Sterling or Foden. At a stretch could use Grealish instead of Mount, but Mount has done well and Grealish would provide less balance in the midfield 3, so you gotta use him in the front 3. If you use Grealish, then I'd say Foden or Sterling on the right. If you use Sancho, then Rashford or Foden on the left. But first choice team for me would be:

Pickford (meh)
James Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice
Mount Bellingham
Sancho Kane Rashford​

You have the runs off the left wing in behind from Rashford, but you also have the all around brilliance and creativity from Sancho, along with excellent ball progression from midfield from Mount and Bellingham while staying balanced with hard workers and not just picking all the #10's and hoping it works in midfield (you don't have Pep as a coach, so let's not pretend that Grealish with Foden can work in midfield). And then I'd rotate Grealish with Sancho exclusively, and Rashford with Foden or Sterling. Rice with Phillips, Trippier with James, Chilwell with Shaw... the only areas where there isn't any decent cover to rotate is the midfield 2 ahead of the DM (since he left JWP at home), and the CB's, and striker as there is a big gap between Kane and DCL (though it could be argued that DCL would be better for England as he's a lot more dynamic physically these days).

A lot of options who can all have a realistic shout at starting, but you have to do it like this to get the balance in each area of the pitch.

 

[djembatheking]

Yes indeed. I cannot argue with that, although they really did make a slow start.

It was great fun though . Gazza was a magical player to watch . As much as last night was a poor performance I think Southgate will be quite happy with the point and qualification as he didn`t want to get drawn into the hype of the old enemy rivallry and risk a defeat. He now has the luxury of a free match .

 

[GMoore23]

Think I’ve covered that in the posts which followed. Feel free to respond to them.

Yes I do remember. It was another great attack, but five of those players played in the same position (and the majority were #9s of which you’d only want to play one) which wasn’t needed with Shearer as the figure head up front. Cole wasn’t even picked in the squad. Where depth was required England were lighter than they are now. I do think it’s close, but it’s kind of irrelevant anyway. The point is we should be getting more out of our side offensively.

Fair Enough

 

[Buster15]

It was great fun though . Gazza was a magical player to watch . As much as last night was a poor performance I think Southgate will be quite happy with the point and qualification as he didn`t want to get drawn into the hype of the old enemy rivallry and risk a defeat. He now has the luxury of a free match .

That's it really.
He needs to get the confidence up in the next match and move on to the next stage.