Are standards too low in English football culture?

[VorZakone]

What else explains England's lack of international trophies?

It almost feels like a participation-trophy mentality at times, for a lack of better words. "We tried, we can hold our heads up high". "It just wasn't our moment", or whatever. Just happy to have participated in a semi-final or final.

I see a lack of ruthlessness, or however you want to call it. Too easily satisfied.

 

[Zlatan 7]

I don’t know about England, I think they just get a little over confident and pressure from fans buckle them.

here in Wales it may be true, we had a open top bus parade for reaching the semis... and I fecking loved it

 

[groovyalbert]

Yes, but this is what the project surrounding St George's Park is looking to target.

In fairness, following Euro 2012, I think the FA embarked on a cultural overhaul of English football across all levels. They targeted a semi final showing at Euro 2020 and a WC win in 2022.

Obviously not saying they'll win the world cup, but I think they're ahead of schedule.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Standards are high, English youth teams won trophies recently , the senior team reached SF in WC18 and final in EC20, lost in penalties, granted this isn't a dominant Spain 2008/2012, but this England side has high standards and is the only team since that 66 squad that is capable of winning a trophy.

 

[Lagger]

What else explains England's lack of international trophies?

It almost feels like a participation-trophy mentality at times, for a lack of better words. "We tried, we can hold our heads up high". "It just wasn't our moment", or whatever.

I see a lack of ruthlessness, or however you want to call it. Too easily satisfied.

When you spend a lot of cash to buy whatever EA's FIFA rates the highest instead of supporting your own youth, this is what happens. Youngsters getting paid millions to sit on the bench because some foreign guy from Europe gets bought, how is the NT going to improve?

Having said that, the English NT is not bad. They could have won this. It's just those damn penalty shootouts. It's a coin toss, can't blame the English NT for that. I think the attacks on individual players are disgraceful and don't reflect the accomplishments they made properly.

 

[devilish]

I live a spit away from Italy and had been going there for work and pleasure for more then 20 times in my life. I also lived in the UK for around half a decade as well. The difference is quite striking.

Italians truly understand football. Anyone who understand the Italian language and tend to listen to Italian punditry would acknowledge how tactical savvy they are as opposed to anyone in England really. They have high expectations but they are also very realistic. All they ask is for the team to do its very best, something that is done most of the time. This knowledge about football allows them to pinpoint whose the real culprits are and to expect their own FA to act on it. It also allow them to truly appreciate true talent and the worth of being professional at all times. The likes of Baggio, Totti and Del Piero are considered legends in Italy.

In England there seem to be that lack of understanding football. There's too much emphasis on grit and determination rather then talent and professionalism. The way the likes of Beckham, Scholes and now Grealish had been misused by the national team is beyond ridiculous. On the other hand the likes of Gazza would never have made it in Italy. Case in point is Di Canio who was never called with the Italian national team simply because he's a nutter.

Its a shame because this English side has ample potential.

 

[VorZakone]

I live a spit away from Italy and had been going there for work and pleasure for more then 20 times in my life. I also lived in the UK for around half a decade as well. The difference is quite striking.

Italians truly understand football. Anyone who understand the Italian language and tend to listen to Italian punditry would acknowledge how tactical savvy they are as opposed to anyone in England really. They have high expectations but they are also very realistic. All they ask is for the team to do its very best, something that is done most of the time. This knowledge about football allows them to pinpoint whose the real culprits are and to expect their own FA to act on it. It also allow them to truly appreciate true talent and the worth of being professional at all times. The likes of Baggio, Totti and Del Piero are considered legends in Italy.

In England there seem to be that lack of understanding football. There's too much emphasis on grit and determination rather then talent and professionalism. The way the likes of Beckham, Scholes and now Grealish had been misused by the national team is beyond ridiculous. On the other hand the likes of Gazza would never have made it in Italy. Case in point is Di Canio who was never called with the Italian national team simply because he's a nutter.

Its a shame because this English side has ample potential.

Thanks for this insight!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It all comes down to a total failure to understand international football. The fans think it works like club football and are never satisfied. Too many managers till now treated it like fantasy football.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I'm not sure culture was the issue in this tournament.

In Russia against Croatica 100% was, we were basically taking it to the corner flag from about the 40th minute when we had the better team.

Last night I think it was more an issue with tactics and management, Southgate had a great plan A, but when that started to fall apart he didn't know what to do. Mancini simply out-thought him.

 

[kthanksbye]

Nope, quite the opposite, like Grealish removing his medal as soon as he was presented with it, like what the feck have you won? This is the biggest achievement of your career so far. Behave.

 

[VorZakone]

I'm not sure culture was the issue in this tournament.

In Russia against Croatica 100% was, we were basically taking it to the corner flag from about the 40th minute when we had the better team.

Last night I think it was more an issue with tactics and management, Southgate had a great plan A, but when that started to fall apart he didn't know what to do. Mancini simply out-thought him.

Did Southgate not know what to do or was he already eyeing penalties from the moment Italy equalized? Instead of using his deep squad to pin Italy back and use pace of Rashford/Sancho to target Chiellini and Bonucci? Hell, both Di Lorenzo and Emerson are nothing special yet England barely pressured them in ET.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

To be honest I don't think we have ever had the best squad at a tournament in my lifetime, potentially this year but I would not say so personally. I also think the only time we could have claimed to potentially have the best coach in international football was Bobby Robson.

When we were not qualifying for tournaments or going out in the group then it was fair to say there was a deeper issue.

 

[The Hilton]

Nope, quite the opposite, like Grealish removing his medal as soon as he was presented with it, like what the feck have you won? This is the biggest achievement of your career so far. Behave.

This is a ridiculously harsh take.

You're right that, looking at it in the cold light of day once the pain has gone, this will be a career high point.

At the time though, it'll be the lowest he's ever felt, losing a final at home on penalties. Until the pain is gone, that medal will just be a reminder of how close he was to glory, and it's gonna take some time for that wound to heal.

 

[redshaw]

Yes England are lacking a lot.

Italy have 4 World Cups and 2 Euros now. For England, last night was just our second time in a final as a nation. Our records compared to other nations like France, Italy Germany and Spain are really poor. We have a taking part mentality.

England doesn't produce good managers at club level who then might go on to manage the national team and the intelligence and tactical knowledge in players to managers is still lacking.

We have excellent people in other fields like F1 but the football culture is still stuck.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Did Southgate not know what to do or was he already eyeing penalties from the moment Italy equalized? Instead of using his deep squad to pin Italy back and use the pace of Rashford/Sancho to target Chiellini and Bonucci? Hell, both Di Lorenzo and Emerson are nothing special yet England barely pressured them in ET.

With this squad of players if you're eyeing penalties from the 67th minute then yes that's a terrible mentality issue.

Personally, I think considering it's been a theme that Southgate struggles to react and make changes it's likely that he simply doesn't know what to do.

 

[Zen86]

Standards too low?

Historically, the weight of expectation in this country has bordered on the deluded. Every player and manager scrutinised and vilified. And in any case, Jesus Christ we have a promising young team who literally just lost the European final on penalties.

 

[shaky]

Italy had a manager who has managed hundreds of top-level, high pressure, matches. Southgate has probably managed about a dozen or so. It was telling.

 

[Vialli_92]

England only got to the final from an easy draw and a dive in the semi-final. They were not tested all tournament until the final. They are a tier below Spain, France and Italy.

I don't think anyone expected England to win before a ball was kicked in the tournament just the path they had was an easy one which made it more of a possibility.

England's teams from the 90's - 2000's had the capability to win tournaments but in that 20 year stretch they couldn't.

 

[VorZakone]

Standards too low?

Historically, the weight of expectation in this country has bordered on the deluded. Every player and manager scrutinised and vilified. And in any case, Jesus Christ we have a promising young team who literally just lost the European final on penalties.

Fans may have high standards but do the English NT? Does the FA? I don't see it. England should have tried to kill the game off before penalties, the squad was deep enough to really trouble the Italians, especially their mediocre FB's.

 

[Zen86]

Fans may have high standards but do the English NT? Does the FA? I don't see it. England should have tried to kill the game off before penalties, the squad was deep enough to really trouble the Italians, especially their mediocre FB's.

The FA’s standards will be subject to those of fans and the media. Last night had nothing to do with the FA or standards, rather Southgate getting it very wrong.

 

[VorZakone]

England only got to the final from an easy draw and a dive in the semi-final. They were not tested all tournament until the final. They are a tier below Spain, France and Italy.

I don't think anyone expected England to win before a ball was kicked in the tournament just the path they had was an easy one which made it more of a possibility.

England's teams from the 90's - 2000's had the capability to win tournaments but in that 20 year stretch they couldn't.

Too much ego? The English players of those days should be ashamed of themselves. At least the Spanish, during those nasty Clasico days, set their disputes aside during 2008-2012 and won 3 tournaments in a row.

 

[VorZakone]

The FA’s standards will be subject to those of fans and the media. Last night had nothing to do with the FA or standards, rather Southgate getting it very wrong.

Why didn't Soutgate go for the kill before penalties? He was overly negative. Not ruthless enough.

 

[MO_Football92]

Too much ignorance amongst football supporters and pundits within English football.

The fact fans still underrated Saka but rate Grealish and Foden is reflective of the footballing problem in this country. Too much favouritism and a lack of football knowledge.

 

[Vialli_92]

Too much ego? The English players of those days should be ashamed of themselves. At least the Spanish, during those nasty Clasico days, set their disputes aside during 2008-2012 and won 3 tournaments in a row.

Spanish people are quite family orientated, so rivalries go out the window when they put the Spanish jersey on.

When I think of England they always look to lack that togetherness and heart that other nationalities have in tournament football.

Probably a culture thing more than anything which has held them back. That golden generation should be ashamed of themselves for not winning anything.

 

[TwoSheds]

England only got to the final from an easy draw and a dive in the semi-final. They were not tested all tournament until the final. They are a tier below Spain, France and Italy.

I don't think anyone expected England to win before a ball was kicked in the tournament just the path they had was an easy one which made it more of a possibility.

England's teams from the 90's - 2000's had the capability to win tournaments but in that 20 year stretch they couldn't.

I don't agree with this at all. I think they were the 2nd best team in a tournament where not many teams both had quality and actually turned up. I don't think we can expect the quality of international football to remain this low forever so we need to make it count very soon or it will be another wasted generation of talent hobbled by poor management and low standards at the FA.

 

[TwoSheds]

Too much ignorance amongst football supporters and pundits within English football.

The fact fans still underrated Saka but rate Grealish and Foden is reflective of the footballing problem in this country. Too much favouritism and a lack of football knowledge.

 

[Zen86]

Why didn't Soutgate go for the kill before penalties? He was overly negative. Not ruthless enough.

Because he was being overly cautious and didn’t want to take any risks. It’s nothing to do with institutional problems. If anything the NT setup is in the best shape it has been for a long time.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Too much ignorance amongst football supporters and pundits within English football.

The fact fans still underrated Saka but rate Grealish and Foden is reflective of the footballing problem in this country. Too much favouritism and a lack of football knowledge.

It's not pure hokum. Just look at the individual seasons both Grealish and Foden have had and compare them with Saka's. Don't get me wrong, Saka is a wonderful player. But you can't call a person asking for Grealish or Foden to replace Saka in the team as "ignorant".

 

[VorZakone]

Because he was being overly cautious and didn’t want to take any risks. It’s nothing to do with institutional problems. If anything the NT setup is in the best shape it has been for a long time.

I disagree. We clearly see it differently. No doubt we'll see the same stuff next World Cup.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

England are always trying to be like someone else, they were trying to out-Italian the old Italians there through this tournament with their catenaccio, they've tried to play like Spain, they've tried to play like other countries. I feel like they'll only really win a tournament when they truly unleash themselves and open up a bit. How many times have England been 'the team to watch' in the tournament? Very rarely, mostly play boring, risk averse football.

They have an idea of what is 'winning football' and are so embedded to that, rather than react to the situation. Case in point with last night, react to your great start, rather than think we'll win this 1-0. Embrace the moment, try to play without fear, rather than trying to hold on for an hour.

 

[VorZakone]

I don't agree with this at all. I think they were the 2nd best team in a tournament where not many teams both had quality and actually turned up. I don't think we can expect the quality of international football to remain this low forever so we need to make it count very soon or it will be another wasted generation of talent hobbled by poor management and low standards at the FA.

Indeed, low standards.

 

[Skills]

What else explains England's lack of international trophies?

It almost feels like a participation-trophy mentality at times, for a lack of better words. "We tried, we can hold our heads up high". "It just wasn't our moment", or whatever.

I see a lack of ruthlessness, or however you want to call it. Too easily satisfied.

I mean this attitude is best exemplified by English footballs biggest club.

 

[Glorio]

Too much ignorance amongst football supporters and pundits within English football.

The fact fans still underrated Saka but rate Grealish and Foden is reflective of the footballing problem in this country. Too much favouritism and a lack of football knowledge.

One could argue you're doing exactly the same. Given that you support Arsenal, surely you can see pointed comments like yours could be seen as the same issue you're decrying?

 

[MO_Football92]

It's not pure hokum. Just look at the individual seasons both Grealish and Foden have had and compare them with Saka's. Don't get me wrong, Saka is a wonderful player. But you can't call a person asking for Grealish or Foden to replace Saka in the team as "ignorant".

This answer just shows more ignorance. Saka had one of the best seasons for a 19 year old last year under possibly the worst managers I've genuinely ever seen. Fodens got talent but plays for a top team with a world class manager. Grealish is great and has improved a lot but Saka has way more potential and is six years younger.

If you can't see this then you're ignorant and here lies the problem with English football.

 

[Nickelodeon]

This answer just shows more ignorance. Saka had one of the best seasons for a 19 year old last year under one of the worst managers I've genuinely ever seen. Fodens got talent but plays for a top team with a world class manager. Grealish is great and has improved a lot but Saka has way more potential and is six years younger.

If you can't see this then you're ignorant and here lies the problem with English football.

Sure buddy. I'll live in my ignorant world.

 

[FootyGirl88]

I live a spit away from Italy and had been going there for work and pleasure for more then 20 times in my life. I also lived in the UK for around half a decade as well. The difference is quite striking.

Italians truly understand football. Anyone who understand the Italian language and tend to listen to Italian punditry would acknowledge how tactical savvy they are as opposed to anyone in England really. They have high expectations but they are also very realistic. All they ask is for the team to do its very best, something that is done most of the time. This knowledge about football allows them to pinpoint whose the real culprits are and to expect their own FA to act on it. It also allow them to truly appreciate true talent and the worth of being professional at all times. The likes of Baggio, Totti and Del Piero are considered legends in Italy.

In England there seem to be that lack of understanding football. There's too much emphasis on grit and determination rather then talent and professionalism. The way the likes of Beckham, Scholes and now Grealish had been misused by the national team is beyond ridiculous. On the other hand the likes of Gazza would never have made it in Italy. Case in point is Di Canio who was never called with the Italian national team simply because he's a nutter.

Its a shame because this English side has ample potential.

This is so true and it drives me nuts!!!! We accept medicority but if you show a bit of passion all is well!

 

[Adisa]

Many teams have a proud footballing history and produce top players. The Netherlands have never won the WC, Spain won their first one in 2010. I don't think it is about culture. Many factors combine but for me, the biggest are skill and luck.

 

[MO_Football92]

One could argue you're doing exactly the same. Given that you support Arsenal, surely you can see pointed comments like yours could be seen as the same issue you're decrying?

I'm not bias and watch many teams across Europe. I could say the same about non-arsenal players who aren't rated. People label the English arrogant but actually it's moreso ignorance

 

[MO_Football92]

Sure buddy. I'll live in my ignorant world.

This is why England will never win until such attitudes from pundits and fans change.

 

[VorZakone]

Many teams have a proud footballing history and produce top players. The Netherlands have never won the WC, Spain won their first one in 2010. I don't think it is about culture. Many factors combine but for me, the biggest are skill and luck.

Spain also won 2 Euro's. And I'd bet on Spain winning a tournament before England.