I see national all the time. How is it national when they're beating their own stewards? They're just garbage I think.
England fans, what is wrong with England fans?
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I was thinking this too. Chiellini alluded to it in his post-match interview, and Bonucci I believe said they love playing in a hostile atmosphere. It can also have a counterproductive effect on the England players who might feel a little overwhelmed by the huge wave of hope and expectation literally surrounding them.
And yes I wouldn't feel safe going there with my family (Sol Campbell, take note hehe). Would feel alright going there alone though, seeing the footage of those one-punchers doesn't scare me. It's just animal like.
Don't know what's wrong with them but I think the images from yesterday will cost you next time you want to host an international tournament. Disgrace to see that in a final.
It's not really the English support which is problematic, but the England support. People who are fine when supporting English club teams turn into hooligans when supporting the national team.
Aye my little niece comes to club games and there’s usually an understanding with kids involved. It’s fecked up for them to get intimidated, it would probably put her off football for life if she was around yesterday
By national I mean national team supporters. England has done a great job stamping out the hooliganism culture in domestic football mainly, but there’s an element of it still there with the hardcore ones who follow the national team and they love to cause shit, like you said even on home turf!
Here's an outsider's perspective: I used to love English football in the 80s/90s when the atmosphere was also sometimes rough but fans mostly were busy with passionately supporting their team instead of hating the opponent. I remember travelling to England from Germany just to watch a football game and enjoy the atmosphere back then. I loved seeing grandpas in the stands next to their sons and grandsons (and, yes, it was usually only males), all absolutely buzzing for their sports. Since then, the main problem at first was unrelenting commercialisation and the prawn sandwich brigade that took over football, In England more than in any other country in Europe. This seems important to me now, because the whole structure of football fandom has changed since then and what we are seeing now ist the emergence of a deeply xenophobic, badly educated and politically misled (Brexit anyone?) fan culture that takes over in situations when passion overrules wealth. You are not alone with that, but English football is specifically prone for this scumbaggery because it has erradicated its cultural base and in situations when nationalism takes over it is now driven by right-wing idiots who truly believe that they have a divine right to feel superior because En-ger-land, Britannia rule the waves etc.
The scenes before the game were horrific. Add on the racial abuse of 3 young players.
Humiliated themeselves yet again. They won’t give a feck and it will happen again in the near future.
I’ve seen a video where a guy has jumped on a flat roof outside to have his 2 minutes of fun when cans get thrown at him ,he laughs it off until fans started throwing glass bottles at him . No words
Racism is rife here. There’s some United fans who won’t even celebrate Pogba or martial goals.
Think you're being quite sensitive
Well, I probably shouldn't have used the word 'British' there: I've only ever been to England in the UK so my experiences are predominantly of English people and English drinking culture. And yes, this is outside football. That's sort of my point: even without football - which does bring out the worst of some people for some reason - that drinking culture is a tad scary, at least to an outsider like me.
English football fans are thugs. It's a lot better than it used to be, but the violent element remain.
I was in the city centre with my kids at 3pm Sunday afternoon and there were drunken louts singing about "fecking pakis".
We lived near the baseball ground and as kids we weren't allowed out when Derby County were playing at home. So called fans (home and away) drunkenly chanting past our homes.
Loads of people I know are taxi drivers who will avoid working in the evening post match depending on the score, especially if its a local Derby.
I was in the city centre with my kids at 3pm Sunday afternoon and there were drunken louts singing about "fecking pakis".
We lived near the baseball ground and as kids we weren't allowed out when Derby County were playing at home. So called fans (home and away) drunkenly chanting past our homes.
Loads of people I know are taxi drivers who will avoid working in the evening post match depending on the score, especially if its a local Derby.
National team attracts a lot of racist types unfortunately.
I don't believe there is that much difference in the quality of people across any countries in the world. In general the population is going to be relatively similar, there are only a few that are particularly enlightened, then there are the average and then the people who are completely underdeveloped. I think football has always attracted a few boneheads, but realistically there will have been a cross section of society at the game.
I think what you get in England is far too much alcohol consumed and it tends to exacerbate character flaws and weakness within people. I think that cultural dependence on alcohol to have a good time is what creates a lot of these situations with fans, there is no reasoning with people swept along by the joint fever of operating as part of a group and by this drug. So if there is any inherent difference between countries I do believe this cultural phenomenon would be the main explanation. I think the reasons why people are so alcohol reliant has to be a concern.
I think what you get in England is far too much alcohol consumed and it tends to exacerbate character flaws and weakness within people. I think that cultural dependence on alcohol to have a good time is what creates a lot of these situations with fans, there is no reasoning with people swept along by the joint fever of operating as part of a group and by this drug. So if there is any inherent difference between countries I do believe this cultural phenomenon would be the main explanation. I think the reasons why people are so alcohol reliant has to be a concern.
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Yes the worst. Doesn’t mean others aren’t bad
The sad fact is that the whataboutism (the others do it too) and fatalism (there is nothing that can be done) that, on evidence of this forum alone, is quite prevalent, is a passively supporting factor for it to continue.
If there was an appropriate amount of outrage, calls for action, and political will to act, this would have a significant effect. We know this because things improved noticeably in club football when such action was taken in the late 80s.
It doesn't really matter why people do it, unless it is pertinent to a proactive solution, whether others do it, unless it is pertinent to international collaboration to resolve it, or how much, except to measure how much there needs to be dealt with.
The bottomline is that it is too much, action is required and everybody ought to be on that same page instead of offering arguments for why it is better to shrug our shoulders and offer thoughts and prayers instead.
If there was an appropriate amount of outrage, calls for action, and political will to act, this would have a significant effect. We know this because things improved noticeably in club football when such action was taken in the late 80s.
It doesn't really matter why people do it, unless it is pertinent to a proactive solution, whether others do it, unless it is pertinent to international collaboration to resolve it, or how much, except to measure how much there needs to be dealt with.
The bottomline is that it is too much, action is required and everybody ought to be on that same page instead of offering arguments for why it is better to shrug our shoulders and offer thoughts and prayers instead.
Feck off. What a daft claim.Just like I don't need to go to Antarctica to know it's cold, I don't need to show hard figures to demonstrate England fans have too many idiots. You can see it for yourself - I was at the game yesterday and was disgusted with around 35% of them which is far too many of a minority relative to other fanbases. I saw 3 people chuck flares into crowds, I saw countless glass bottles being thrown, I saw racist Italian chants, I saw countless people disrespecting law and order.
It wasn't unique. We had fans breaking bus windows, climbing shop roofs and shouting "eng-er-land" after we beat Ukraine.
The biggest problem is certain fans refuse to acknowledge its a problem, with a lazy "oh it happens in all countries". I mean what the actual feck, can you not see the level of the problem here relative to other countries?
We always say that there's idiots everywhere but England seems to have a slightly bigger share than others.
Thinking about the dude filming himself with a flare up his butt, doing a handstand with his knob out, the multiples tatoos "Euro 2020 winners" and of course the digusting repetitive racism makes me happy you lost.
I don't think England is more racist than France or Germany or that their politics are worse. Alcohol culture is pretty strong in Germany too but you don't seem to see so much weird stuff coming from them. It's got to be a deeper education issue.
Thinking about the dude filming himself with a flare up his butt, doing a handstand with his knob out, the multiples tatoos "Euro 2020 winners" and of course the digusting repetitive racism makes me happy you lost.
I don't think England is more racist than France or Germany or that their politics are worse. Alcohol culture is pretty strong in Germany too but you don't seem to see so much weird stuff coming from them. It's got to be a deeper education issue.
One of the cocaine videos, where a guy on an elevated platform was being cheered by a huge group as he did lines as a sort of show, summed up the particular type of scumdom that rubs people up the wrong way
The difference is that that was a very much an outlier in Canadian sports history, something that rightly shocked the nation. So while a country like Canada has had a few regrettable instances (I believe there were riots in Montreal once over a hockey game,) they are nowhere near as frequent nor as predictable as what you would find in England or at events frequented by English fans (Euro 2016 springs to mind, as does World Cup 1998, Heysel, etc.) In Toronto, we had huge crowds congregating to watch the Raptors a few years ago in the finals, and nothing like this happened (there were shots fired at the Championship parade, but that was a very small minority of people at an event attended by hundreds of thousands.)
A lot of people point to excessive alcohol consumption, but its not really that, like the irish are one of the biggest drinking nations and are regarded as one of the best countries in terms of travelling fans being positive and decently behaved, while these english 'hooligan' fans are obviously not a representation of all english fans, there is a theme across the board regarding englands interpretation of england as a country and how they are percieved by other countries, which will often come up in various 'why dont people like the english or want england to lose' type threads. These hooligans are obviously at the extreme end of things, and behave awfully, but it is part of a general cultural confirmation bias of england as a country in relation to the rest of the world and their entitlement to be the best. It is a very interesting subject.....i had lived in london for many years and have no problems with any english people in general, you take everyone as they come, so please im not trying to be anti-english or anything like that.
I don't agree with the idea that all countries have this problem, think it has more to do with countries that take football a tad too seriously.
For example I don't think I have seen Asian countries like Japan, SK etc been accused of having hooligan fans. If anything they seem far too nice, it was reported that in the last WC that after matches the fans would stay and clean up the stadium of trash and litter in the game. Even the players did the same with their rooms and left a thank you note for the workers and staff at the stadium even when they were knocked out.
For example I don't think I have seen Asian countries like Japan, SK etc been accused of having hooligan fans. If anything they seem far too nice, it was reported that in the last WC that after matches the fans would stay and clean up the stadium of trash and litter in the game. Even the players did the same with their rooms and left a thank you note for the workers and staff at the stadium even when they were knocked out.
just my two cents without any statistical evidence: politics are far worse in England than in Germany (Brexit vs. AFD polling below 10%) and the alcohol culture is not comparable. Yes, German teenagers get wasted and fecked up, but they stop doing that when they turn 20.
Racist abuse has put me off as a match-goer. Sworn at once outside the ground by a couple of initimidating fellas, was enough for the wife to say never again. Had my 2 year old toddler with me.
I'll go to a saturday afternoon family-friendly-time kick off very occasionally but mostly stick to cricket for anything live.
We do have a problem, the drunks in A&E I've seen always save their worst for BAME staff and it's insane how many things we've had to use as spit shields over our patients.
I'll go to a saturday afternoon family-friendly-time kick off very occasionally but mostly stick to cricket for anything live.
We do have a problem, the drunks in A&E I've seen always save their worst for BAME staff and it's insane how many things we've had to use as spit shields over our patients.
England has an extra layer of yob culture you don't see or is very limited on the continent that people carry into middle age. I think it comes from a century or more of a large gap to the upper classes and the general working class and underclass. It's like a proud rebellion against the posher educated people. It's so pervasive I don't see anything changing in another century.
This is really interesting. It's a good point and certainly in Britain thuggish men behave like young lads long into life.
Yes its completely anecdotal but on any travels to France or Germany I've rarely seen a dressed up young woman absolutely struggling to stand, or a young guy missing his mouth with kebabs at 3am. The whole drinking just to get completely shit faced is very strange
Germans drink much - but it is much less binge drinking apart from some teenagers but much more casual. Alcohol is part of the culture here - and for a lot people their beer or wine is part of their dinner or leisure time in the evening - but binge drinking is not.
Theres definitely an unpleasant undercurrent to some of the England support and hangers on. I went to the 2006 world cup - mostly well away from England except in Cologne for a couple of days - and you could really sense the atmosphere change as England fans began to arrive in numbers.
Seeing people fighting was pretty common growing up on a night out (am over 40 now but there seems to be less of it these days) Add tribalism, nationalism and the very very big frustration of being the only major footballing nation that never wins anything and you have a potent mix.
Argentina Brazil France Germany Spain Italy have all won multiple titles in my lifetime and we have won zip because we always lose pen shootouts. I genuinely think if we had won a couple the atmosphere would be better
Seeing people fighting was pretty common growing up on a night out (am over 40 now but there seems to be less of it these days) Add tribalism, nationalism and the very very big frustration of being the only major footballing nation that never wins anything and you have a potent mix.
Argentina Brazil France Germany Spain Italy have all won multiple titles in my lifetime and we have won zip because we always lose pen shootouts. I genuinely think if we had won a couple the atmosphere would be better
I am inclined to agree with the age thing. I used to drink when I was in my late teens early 20's, but grew out of it. Being a mum changed that and responsibility. However I still witness people who just don't grow out of it, they have families, kids, grandchildren and are still drinking like they are 20 year olds. Drinking isn't a problem in itself if it doesn't change your personality in the process. Unfortunately I think a lot of yesterdays mob are the sort who turn into loud, racist thugs when drunk. The drink gives the courage to voice hidden views.
Did you just rewrote what i posted but used twice the words?
I am inclined to agree that we are stupid drinkers, when I was a bit younger you didn't drink during the week, because you were at work, but at the weekend you got wasted. As you say abroad, they have a drink with their meals, so it is maybe the same amount, but over a week, so the effects are not the same. I listen to Talksport more than I probably should and it is the land of laddish behaviour. Constantly chuckling about themselves getting drunk.
No its fine, there's a lot of good in this place too. Never had an issue otherwise. Just a particular small sub-section. I think maybe the next generation of fans might change that overall and won't be as big an issue. Different people have different thresholds for this kind of stuff. I have friends who are regulars who are south asian background and they've said its grand.That’s so sad to hear, mate
fecking wankers
Dumb fans. They obviously think this behaviour is ok