Idxomer
Full Member
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2014
- Messages
- 15,302
Surprised he hasn't signed a new contract yet.
Mason Mount had been Vitesse player of the season, Eredevisie team of the season, one of the best players for a top 6 Championship side and already called up to the England senior side. Garner has had a poor spell at a top Championship side, had his loan cancelled and then a good half season at a bottom Championship side and not even made England u21s yet. Not even in the same ballpark of pedigree really.Excited to see Garner this year. Did well on loan last year. Maybe he could be our Mason Mount- very different players, but prem ready after a loan in the Championship.
Yeah, those are all very valid points tbf. From what I've seen he has some great attributes, we'll just have to wait and see I guess.Mason Mount had been Vitesse player of the season, Eredevisie team of the season, one of the best players for a top 6 Championship side and already called up to the England senior side. Garner has had a poor spell at a top Championship side, had his loan cancelled and then a good half season at a bottom Championship side and not even made England u21s yet. Not even in the same ballpark of pedigree really.
If he remains he'll just be another Axel Tuanzebe, two years later he'll have never played any meaningful minutes and suddenly he'll be 23 with only 70 appearances to his name and not progressed at all. We need to learn from the Axel mistake and make sure we get him another good loan. He needs to play and he isn't going to do that here.
He could, but that doesnt mean Southgate will pick him. England have better distributers than Phillips and Rice and dont play them. Against Italy Phillips was one of the main players to struggle for composure and keeping the ball, giving away the ball a lot. He still won the ball a bunch and he improved as time went on from bad to okay overall. But the point is England kept him on the pitch.Grealish didn't fit with Southgate's ultra-conservatism/pragmatism - rightly or wrongly.
If Garner becomes a substantial United first teamer/Squad Rotator and plays a deeper screening/forward-passing tempo role, he could really be more useful in a two of either Phillips or Rice.
Yes I agree with this, people obsessed with loans. I cant actually think of many successful loan spells with our players that then went on to be big players...Beckham was one, but who else has there been? Of coruse a lot of the ucrrent England side have been on loan spells, which seems to make it more prevelant than it should be to meThe thing to bear in mind is that while his experience outside of United is very limited, plenty of good players over the years have come straight from the reserves into the first team with no experience at all. Look at Rashford and McTominay. Does it have to be the case that once you get one loan spell you're automatically consigned to doing two more before you get a shot in the senior squad here?
Much rather see him given a go as our deep buildup player / DLP. If he isnt getting games in the 2nd half of the season send him out on loan, but I have a lot more hope for him than McTominay and Fred at helping us build up and keep the ball while progressing and getting the ball into Bruno, Pogba, Sancho etc as they approach the final thirdHe'll almost certainly go on loan again, but there's hope for the season after IMO
Do they? Seems to me England simply do not have any real playmakers for deeper midfield positions at all. And please for the love of god don't namecheck Henderson, the man is and has always been an awful footballer.He could, but that doesnt mean Southgate will pick him. England have better distributers than Phillips and Rice and dont play them. Against Italy Phillips was one of the main players to struggle for composure and keeping the ball, giving away the ball a lot. He still won the ball a bunch and he improved as time went on from bad to okay overall. But the point is England kept him on the pitch.
Rice and Phillips are in there to spoil against the other team's midfield. We might find that the only time players get in ahead of them its because they are better at spoiling than they are, not better at progressing with passing.
I would say every player is an individual case, but I think the talent level, physical development, position and also squad options are going to be the main considerations a manager looks at. I don't think it's automatic they have to be loaned out or need multiple loan spells, but it's one route that can definitely work - Mason Mount already being a good recent example that has been mentioned. Another loan for Garner would put him on a similar trajectory.The thing to bear in mind is that while his experience outside of United is very limited, plenty of good players over the years have come straight from the reserves into the first team with no experience at all. Look at Rashford and McTominay. Does it have to be the case that once you get one loan spell you're automatically consigned to doing two more before you get a shot in the senior squad here?
Loans are great, but when a player has gone out to the championship and done really well and he plays in a position where you can improve a lot with something he's good at (DM, distribution other than Pogba who is light defensively) sometimes you just have to pick a player and say you're going with him because he might develop quickly if you put him in the team to do what he's good at. He could come in and look like he's been playing central midfield for Manchester United for 5 years. And if he struggles its still okay to send him out on loan after that. But its worth giving him the chance to make his claim for the shirtYes I agree with this, people obsessed with loans. I cant actually think of many successful loan spells with our players that then went on to be big players...Beckham was one, but who else has there been? Of coruse a lot of the ucrrent England side have been on loan spells, which seems to make it more prevelant than it should be to me
Even Henderson is better. He gets Liverpool on the front foot with passes in behind for their front players to chase down and press. Something England's midfield were completely unable to do against Italy, never able to turn the high aged Italian defenders with runs in behind on the counter. Ward-Prowse is another one. Granted theres loads of players who should have been able to do better than Phillips Vs. Italy, his ball retention started really bad and never got good. Might not have won the ball as much as Phillips, but thats the trade off. All Phillips and Rice were able to provide going forward was Rice's dribbles up the pitch which he did really well. But other than that they were just in there to try to disrupt some Italian moves and they did a bit of that, but Italy had so much of the ball because we couldnt buildup anything that the ball just came backDo they? Seems to me England simply do not have any real playmakers for deeper midfield positions at all. And please for the love of god don't namecheck Henderson, the man is and has always been an awful footballer.
Or Fergie's fledglings. Other than Beckham I don't recall anyone else going on loan.The thing to bear in mind is that while his experience outside of United is very limited, plenty of good players over the years have come straight from the reserves into the first team with no experience at all. Look at Rashford and McTominay. Does it have to be the case that once you get one loan spell you're automatically consigned to doing two more before you get a shot in the senior squad here?
I was just looking at the team of the Championship from last year and saw that Nick Powell and a teenager I have never heard of make the midfield so while I think it is the perfect stepping stone to have a loan in the League I think it is a huge step up to Premier League.Or Fergie's fledglings. Other than Beckham I don't recall anyone else going on loan.
2 years of top division experience as a starter is the differenceHe's two years older than Camavinga and has more experience of the English game.
If Camavinga is ready to stake a claim in United's first team, so is Garner. I don't get the insistence that Garner HAS TO go out on loan.
The teenager you havent heard of has signed for Palace and will be playing in the premier league next season.I was just looking at the team of the Championship from last year and saw that Nick Powell and a teenager I have never heard of make the midfield so while I think it is the perfect stepping stone to have a loan in the League I think it is a huge step up to Premier League.
I think if a loan deal to a prem side is possible then that would be best just to get used to the intensity of the game.
He was a lot better for Forrest to be honest. Like night and dayI watched him a bit at Watford and he was alright. Some good, some bad, but nothing like what we need at the top of the PL. I didn't watch him so much at Forest but there's a big step up in levels from a poor Championship team to us. I hope he has a good pre season and earns himself a few games this year. He needs PL games now at all costs.
I think people at the club were saying he needs to play PL football this year for his development to continue at the rate it is. So they want to assess if he's good enough to get game time at United this pre-season, if not they will loan him to a PL club, or at least that was the plan for him.He's two years older than Camavinga and has more experience of the English game.
If Camavinga is ready to stake a claim in United's first team, so is Garner. I don't get the insistence that Garner HAS TO go out on loan.
No?Anyone else worried about his contract situation?
Oh! OKThe teenager you havent heard of has signed for Palace and will be playing in the premier league next season.
Stats suggest there wasnt much between them other than Olise playing twice as many games, not being out on loan to 2 different clubs for the season
He was. And Olise might still have been better even if we take that into account, but perhaps both of them have done well enough to justify being given a chance against players like Fred and McTominay who both leave something to be desired in central midfield. Bellingham wasnt in the team of the season then Dortmund signed him and he went to the Euros and got some game time for a finalistOh! OK
Thanks for that, Garner was not far off then and as you say..he was disadvantaged by having to settle at two clubs
Just seems a bit weird he’s only got a year left and there’s absolutely no talk of a new contract, it’s not like we haven’t been here before with talented youngsters. I’d obviously be surprised if it came to that given he’s a local lad, still a tad worrying though.
To be fair the Watford coach had a mare with Garner. He was playing him off the main striker and games were just passing him by. He’s clearly suited playing much deeper and at Forest he excelled there showing excellent vision, passing range and surprisingly breaking up play really well tooI watched him a bit at Watford and he was alright. Some good, some bad, but nothing like what we need at the top of the PL. I didn't watch him so much at Forest but there's a big step up in levels from a poor Championship team to us. I hope he has a good pre season and earns himself a few games this year. He needs PL games now at all costs.
He's probably waiting to see what the future holds. If we're going to loan him and then give him a bit part role in the squad he'll leave on a free. Game time is crucial for player development at this stage.Surprised he hasn't signed a new contract yet.
Disagree. He'd fit in perfectly. A midfield of Bruno, Fred and Garner is the perfect combo between passing, creativity, steel, dynamism, mobility and goal threat.If Ole's switching to 433, then there's no room for Garner this season. I think he'll be loaned out.
You make some good points and I think he has as much if not more of a chance to adapt to the Premier League than an 18yo from another country.He was. And Olise might still have been better even if we take that into account, but perhaps both of them have done well enough to justify being given a chance against players like Fred and McTominay who both leave something to be desired in central midfield. Bellingham wasnt in the team of the season then Dortmund signed him and he went to the Euros and got some game time for a finalist
Agreed, I'd like to see this trio. I think the other poster means that a midfield trio of Pogba - Garner - Bruno wouldn't work, but honestly there are very few DMs in world football who could make that work anyway.Disagree. He'd fit in perfectly. A midfield of Bruno, Fred and Garner is the perfect combo between passing, creativity, steel, dynamism, mobility and goal threat.
There's little chance of him getting the games he needs at this stage of his career. McTominay and Fred are ahead of him. VDB will most likely play a bigger role next season.He's probably waiting to see what the future holds. If we're going to loan him and then give him a bit part role in the squad he'll leave on a free. Game time is crucial for player development at this stage.
Disagree. He'd fit in perfectly. A midfield of Bruno, Fred and Garner is the perfect combo between passing, creativity, steel, dynamism, mobility and goal threat.
Now that's a name I haven't heard of in a while. Think I saw him tip up on MUTV a while back.I stopped trying to predict this stuff when David Jones was sold to Derby