Sports people!
To have a competition there has to be competitors and there can only be one winner.
Finishing second means there was only one better which isn't too shabby in the context of the elite level of sport
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To have a competition there has to be competitors and there can only be one winner.
Finishing second means there was only one better which isn't too shabby in the context of the elite level of sport
He's 21 and will turn 22 during the season, and has shown more than enough promise on loan. Bring him back, see what he's capable of in this squad, or move him on in the winter/next summer. Both him and the club need to decide in which direction they're going in soon. As far as United quality is concerned, the benchmarks are low enough for him to walk over them.
Unfortunately for MCt, his flaw is being a footballer.
Yes, that's why it's little surprise that our midfield is awful and gets outplayed every match
With or without McTominay our midfield and whole team gets outplayed most games. It's more to do with system and coach rather than just individual players.
I'd say the abysmal quality of the midfielders has a lot to do with it, seeing as they struggle with the basics which has nothing to do with a system.
Midfield has been our weakest area for over a decade, starting with Ferguson keeping hold of old players like Scholes and Giggs and footballer-turned-clown Anderson.
Ofcourse lack of quality plays it's part, biggest factor is how shit our set up is. That's why no matter what combination we play, we barely control games in any phase.
We are set up to soak up pressure and hit on counters or play direct passes, we wont be controlling games with set up like that. Some games everything clicks and we score lot of goals but we will always be inconsistent. We just can't pin it on one player.
Starts for England u21s against Czech Republic.
So if I've got it correctly, according to PL rules we can't loan more than one player to the same club? Which means given Henderson's loan to Forest, Garner won't be going back there.
Which to me is very short sighted, we're making the same mistake we made when we should've loaned Tuanzebe back to Villa after they went up, instead he sat on the bench and stagnated.
Forest will likely sign an alternative which will close the door to him having a starting position there in the future if this season at United doesn't pan out. There's no other club he would've been guaranteed 38 starting games in the league for.
And before anyone says he could start for United, he could but having watched a good amount of Forest games he's not ready for it.
Which to me is very short sighted, we're making the same mistake we made when we should've loaned Tuanzebe back to Villa after they went up, instead he sat on the bench and stagnated.
Forest will likely sign an alternative which will close the door to him having a starting position there in the future if this season at United doesn't pan out. There's no other club he would've been guaranteed 38 starting games in the league for.
And before anyone says he could start for United, he could but having watched a good amount of Forest games he's not ready for it.
You've watched too much of Forest by the looks of it and failed to see how prime McTom and Fred have been playing for Manchester United
Jokes aside, it is a pretty stupid decision to loan them Henderson if Garner is planned for a loan again. Or we could have just waited with the Hendo deal in order for Garner to be accessed. Imo Garner should be given game time over the 2 shit CM we have in McT and Fred, but then there are the potential FDJ and Eriksen arrivals which further complicate the CM situation.
Considering how shit we are at planning and managing the loan system of player it would not surprise me if we loan the kid somewhere where he will play 10 games all season.
Fred again being underrated and lumped in with McTominay.You've watched too much of Forest by the looks of it and failed to see how prime McTom and Fred have been playing for Manchester United
Jokes aside, it is a pretty stupid decision to loan them Henderson if Garner is planned for a loan again. Or we could have just waited with the Hendo deal in order for Garner to be accessed. Imo Garner should be given game time over the 2 shit CM we have in McT and Fred, but then there are the potential FDJ and Eriksen arrivals which further complicate the CM situation.
Considering how shit we are at planning and managing the loan system of player it would not surprise me if we loan the kid somewhere where he will play 10 games all season.
On the original topic. Forest are also aware that they can only loan one of our players - so we have either told them that we want to keep garner or they have chosen Henderson over him.
He'll likely be our 4th choice midfielder so he will get game time. I think it's a good chance for him to learn the system and if he impresses then he may well establish himself for the following season.
If the lad isn't looking at McTominay and thinking 'I can grab his place' then he probably doesn't have the confidence to play here.
If the lad isn't looking at McTominay and thinking 'I can grab his place' then he probably doesn't have the confidence to play here.
I reckon he will get alot of game time. We have Europa league, we can actually try start him every week in the Europa, if he does well there, he may get PL minutes too.
Honestly if Fred played for Forest in the Championship he'd look the second coming of Kaka. Garner was good but had deficiencies in his game, at the top level they'll be even more pronounced. The kid would have a rough time of it if he started for us weekly. Which as you pointed out probably won't happen given our targets.You've watched too much of Forest by the looks of it and failed to see how prime McTom and Fred have been playing for Manchester United
Jokes aside, it is a pretty stupid decision to loan them Henderson if Garner is planned for a loan again. Or we could have just waited with the Hendo deal in order for Garner to be accessed. Imo Garner should be given game time over the 2 shit CM we have in McT and Fred, but then there are the potential FDJ and Eriksen arrivals which further complicate the CM situation.
Considering how shit we are at planning and managing the loan system of player it would not surprise me if we loan the kid somewhere where he will play 10 games all season.
Just poor player management all round once again. People saying he'll get game time probably said the same about Tuanzebe and look how that turned out. 30+ starts in the PL >>>> the random cup appearance.
Some very weird takes here. It is not a binary choice between going back to Forest and staying here, there are a number of PL clubs who have expressed interest in taking James on loan if he is available again and we have to trust ETH will make the right decision once pre season starts. I doubt he will keep him around if he does not intend to give him significant game time and a loan to a different club could happen and might be the best thing for him as the system at Forest meant the midfield was often bypassed.
And Fred again being excused because Scott is just as bad or had a worse season ending. Let’s not pretend Fred wasn’t awful the majority of the season.
He really wouldn’t, if he played for Fulham or some other club we would be talking about whether 15m is worth the investment. Jonjoe Shelvey is a better CM and he wouldn’t be Steven Gerrard if he played in the Championship.
re Garner, I think it would be very stupid to send him on loan to another team if Forrest were interested or we don’t plan to give him minutes.
Along with Donny I would think that Erik will be having a good look at Garner before the season starts and will take it from there
Who knows what player will be coming in and how they will compliment each other and then we have the maverick Bruno whom I am sure will be accommodated into our side.
Who knows what player will be coming in and how they will compliment each other and then we have the maverick Bruno whom I am sure will be accommodated into our side.
First half of the season he was as bad as his first seasonJesus Christ - he was far from awful
Thank you for proving my initial point.
Fred is the marmite of players. Hate him or love him, no in between. I see a player completely out of his depth and fecking up nearly every attack, lightweight like a child playing against men, and having the passing vision and game smarts of a cow. Others see a brilliant player who starts for Brazil. I think it says it all that not one other team rates him. My friends who support Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal just laugh their tits off that Fred starts for us.
I think this particular conversation is more than that though.
First half of the season was the bad touches and being pressed into mistakes and poor pass selection losing the ball in his own half for opponents to attack and punish us. Then he had his one really good game for the new manager, and several decent performances and he had good matches followed by bad matches up and down, but overall because of the good matches a much better second half of the season. It also helped that most of the matches with the new manager he played further up the pitch away from the pressing traps in his own half pouncing on his loose touches in dangerous positions.
He really went from being one of our worst players in the first half of the season to one of our better players under the new manager, while most players were bad. I think anyone who can't admit that course of events is simply dishonest.
Good and bad in the context of football is relative. Fred was one of the better players last season relative to the abysmal performances of most of the team, but that doesn't exactly make him a great player. He did nothing exceptional
I think you are forgetting the first part of the season mainly, but nonetheless, let’s not derail the Garner thread, Ed obvious have very different opinion about Fred.Jesus Christ - he was far from awful
Thank you for proving my initial point.
He went from awful to mediocre; that is improvement. He had a few good games. The entire team was bad for most of the season. I don’t see any contradictions, just spin. Fred further up the pitch is better than Fred further back, no question.
So he can't now return to Forest can he? Not unless it's a sale?
Correct, although personally I think he is going to see quite a bit of game time this year.
Why not?
Premier league rules state that you can't have more than one player on loan from the same premier league club.
With Dean Henderson moving there, Garner is now stopped from moving there.
Henderson is going on loan there. You can only loan one player from another PL club. I’d sell Garner with a very attractive buy back and see how he gets on next season. I don’t think being a squad player for us is going to get him enough experience
Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks guys.
Someone ought to let Brazil know they're playing a lad worse than Jonjo Shelvey in midfield.
Don't know why people resort to this kind of hyperbole. If he's not for you then okay but that is just total and utter tripe.
Shelvey is a Hollywood ball merchant, he has nothing like the qualities Fred does. Fred passes more, finds team mates more, pressures more, tackles more, intercepts more, clears more, last season scored more and assisted more. I'd love to know how you came to this "view"
I watched Newcastle a fair bit last season and i for the life of me can’t figure out how he starts at this level. People think McTominay is bad. Sure he scores a couple of good goals every season but so did Andreas P and McTominay
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