How so. He’s a better passer which again is the main requirement. Bissouma for example is just a water carrier.
Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)
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Brozovic is a better passer overall. Neves is mainly an occasional long pass behind the defence for someone to run onto, hes good at those. In terms of controlling a match, finding passes along the floor to open teams up etc. its not really his thing. Wolves dont often have the majority of the ball, he doesnt often have loads of touches or passes. Sometimes he's just breaking up play, a good long pass and a good shot.
But is that not more to do with the fact he has played for one of the most negative teams in the league, rather than his lack of ability to do it? When Neves first broke though he was hailed for his immense passing and technical ability. At a top team he’d see more of the ball and be expected to do more with it which I think he could be capable of showing.
Oooh I'd love to have Neves. Then again, I was one of the many who wanted Schneiderlin so what do I know.
I dont know, do you think Xavi would suddenly not be controlling the tempo with short passes if he had signed from Barcelona to Wolves in his prime? Isnt it more likely that he just isnt that kind of player, because there'd be evidence of it if he was?
There isn't a single controlling CM in current football, not even one similar to Xavi/Scholes and you're imagining taking a player from 15 years ago into back then's Wolves team to use it as a comparison?
If he would've signed from Barcelona to Wolves in his prime he would've played in the Championship where he wouldn't control jack shit.
I'm not one to argue but you're just spitting out random shit to win an argument.
I’m not saying he’s Xavi good to be fair! But someone like Carrick didn’t really showcase his brilliant passing at Spurs and even then only got really good once he matured at Utd. I don’t think it’s beyond the realms of possibility he could do that at a top club. For what it’s worth I think this story is nonsense paper talk and we won’t sign him but at £30 million he’s a decent gamble for someone I reckon.
I feel that ever since we were stung by Schneiderlin, we’ve been reluctant to go for PL midfielders.
Hang on he can ping it all over the pitch but can't pass sideways?
There is a difference. Take Gerrard - how many times have you seen Gerrard play a short-pass or two and find space to receive the ball again - something Scholes was an expert at. Or making that brilliant pass in a tight space ? Not often. But give Gerrard room and he could hit a 50 yard cross practically landing at the players foot.
It's not so much the passing ability as the movement and vision. And this was why I always felt Scholes was better than Gerrard - Scholes had that vision and movement so he was always in a position to receive the ball. Whereas Gerrard was more about drive, determination and aggression. I don't deny that Neves can hit a precise long ball - but can he play that short pass to beat a few men - and move quickly to receive the ball, or can he hit that 10 yard-pass straight through the line - which Carrick was an expert at ? I don't think he can - and that is perhaps what we need the most.
How can a tenuous Talksport link sustain a thread for days?
I think he did, now obviously I dont have stats to back that up because stats werent readily available back then. So this is based on watching Spurs and his reputation, but Carrick was absolutely a noted game controller with his passing even at West Ham before Spurs. Thats what he was mainly known for when he first came through, making lots of passes and keeping the ball - before establishing that he is also good at reading things defensively and can be trusted as your sitting midfielder.
And I'm not saying he isnt worth £30 million. I'm saying from what I've seen he'll have games where he isnt that influencial on the ball, but will make a couple of tackles and interceptions breaking up play like a standard DM. And then he'll play a fantastic pass over the top, a bit like Lindelof was doing last season to set an attacker away on one or two moves. Or he'll come forward on a set piece and have a good effort to score. Thats what I think you should expect from him, because thats what he does now. Players can change, but I think its sensible to understand that this would be a change for him. He's not your Pirlo or Veratti getting on the ball loads and getting the ball to dangerous players and keeping the pressure on the opponents all game. He can be asked to do that, if a new manager wanted him to and he can succeed or fail at it.
He doesn't have to change from being the type of player he is to be worth £30 million. Being a decent DM who will play the occasional great long pass to set up a goal, or come forward on a set piece and smash the ball in the top corner can be worth £30 million. But he obviously needs to make sure those moments are semi regular and that when they dont happen, you can still see him trying them.
Another thing is, I remember when Pogba signed there were posters saying dont expect him to be that on the ball controlling passer because he had help with that stuff at Juventus. And even though we know he can provide a great pass to turn a match, that doesnt mean we dont have mathces where teams dominate the ball against us with their ball passers and Pogba isn't able to do the same for us in plenty of those matches. Because its not really his strength. His strength is finding that killer creative ball, rather than being the metronome who keeps his team dominating the ball and far up the pitch in the opponent's half. So thats what I'm saying here as well, Neves clearly also has an eye for a pass that could make the difference in the scoreline. But just because he can play a great pass, doesnt mean he will also do any better in those kinds of matches where Pogba isnt on top in the middle and another team's passing midfielders where that is their strength - think Veratti and Jorginho for Italy recently for example. Those players where that is their strength are still going to continue to do that against us like when Pogba isnt able to get on top.
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OK yeah I know what you're saying.
My right hand is tumb up and my left hand is tumb down. Neves has qualities we need, but I’m unsure he has good enough ground covering or physical skills to be our CDM. Maybe more a LM option instead of Pogba.
Interesting debate here regarding Ruben. There is a predominant 50/50 split between Wolves fans about his performances in the last year - my view would be that he was quite comfortably our best player over the course of the season (not necessarily a high bar, granted). His long range screamers disappeared (his shooting was diabolical to be honest) but he was a much more rounded player - his defensive game has improved immeasurably. Any thoughts that he has been outperformed by Moutinho in the past 12 months are categorically not true. Joao dropped off a cliff with his performances (no surprise given his age and the minutes played under Nuno) and Dendoncker was also woeful for the most part of the season. For a large part of the season, Ruben was the only midfielder we had that was contributing anything at all in either an attacking or defensive sense.
Personally, I think he's always going to be at his best as part of a 2 that screen a back four. We were a war crime to watch for most of the last 12 months and reverted to full contain mode after the West Brom defeat at home. It is difficult to make progressive passes when there are quite literally no options ahead of you other than one of the worst strikers to ever grace the league in Willian Jose, or Fabio who is not yet cut out for this level. In that shape, Neto and Adama were always deep and just asked to carry the ball, rather than provide options. Our shape would quite often be akin to a horseshoe, with the centre of the pitch completely vacated.
The short spell we played 4-2-3-1 with numbers ahead of the ball, Ruben was top class. Podence, Neto and Adama offered options ahead of him and he found them regularly - but we couldn't sustain that shape with our defensive options.
I have no doubt that he'd do very well for you with a potentially top drawer defence behind him and Sancho/Bruno/Rashford/Cavani and co ahead of him. He's not going to be Scholes or Xavi, but then nobody is.
Personally, I think he's always going to be at his best as part of a 2 that screen a back four. We were a war crime to watch for most of the last 12 months and reverted to full contain mode after the West Brom defeat at home. It is difficult to make progressive passes when there are quite literally no options ahead of you other than one of the worst strikers to ever grace the league in Willian Jose, or Fabio who is not yet cut out for this level. In that shape, Neto and Adama were always deep and just asked to carry the ball, rather than provide options. Our shape would quite often be akin to a horseshoe, with the centre of the pitch completely vacated.
The short spell we played 4-2-3-1 with numbers ahead of the ball, Ruben was top class. Podence, Neto and Adama offered options ahead of him and he found them regularly - but we couldn't sustain that shape with our defensive options.
I have no doubt that he'd do very well for you with a potentially top drawer defence behind him and Sancho/Bruno/Rashford/Cavani and co ahead of him. He's not going to be Scholes or Xavi, but then nobody is.
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nice informative post, thanks mate. Re any perceived drop of in form last season from him, as you say the team in general suffered, so perhaps that's to be expected. If he were to move, the hope is in a new environment he'd recapture the previous season form. He's a bit like Varane in that sense, not his best season last season but we know what he can do.
Yes.. and his best years are still in front of him
Good post. Do you have thoughts about some of the youngsters in your squad like Podence, Neto and Fabio? Basically, which young portuguese guys should we steal instead of Neves?
Podence is 25, slightly older than Neves
Me too. So I'll hold my tongue.
Great post!
Seems to be the most realistic option for midfield if Pogba leaves this window.
Ha well... sub him out for Vinagre? I dont know, maybe someone else then.
could be a decent addition
https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/?compare=Bkn2OkpgTZtfXdlxQhnzx
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Have there been literally any other links since the Talkshite one? That for me says it was most likely made up rubbish. I think he’d be a good addition though.
Only tabloid speculation as far as I can see.
I get the feeling we'd have him high on our list if we sell Pogba. I think Ole liked a deep lying playmaker in his team. Saying this because in 2019 he moved Pogba away from the free role where he did really well to the double pivot where his abilities are watered down but his deep playmaking is useful. Pogba is the only player that can playmake from deep so if he goes that side of his game would need to be replaced. Neves is arguably the best option available for that role
Loads of chatter again without any links
Hi guys,
I have a feeling a CB swab deal with Neves would probs do this deal.
Wolves are looking for CB badly.
I have a feeling a CB swab deal with Neves would probs do this deal.
Wolves are looking for CB badly.
Tuanzebe+20M.
Who says no?
If he is available at reasonable price then we should get him. No brainer.
Bundle in Jones and Bailly too.
Is Jones for Neves a little too cheeky?
Like for like replacement… remember some of us wanted to trial Phil at DM?Is Jones for Neves a little too cheeky?
I wouldn’t swap anyone for Jones.Is Jones for Neves a little too cheeky?
Wouldn't like to lose Axel, rather he got a good loan and a proper run of games, still potentially a very good player.
I have liked Neves since coming into the Premier league. Rumoured price is attractive also. If we cannot get a stellar DM then I'd definitely take Neves, his passing and technique are head and shoulders above Fred and McTominay and I'd be much happier with him taking the ball off the CBs/Keeper and dictating the play as opposed to those two. If we keep the ball better we will control more games and have less need to defend, his set piece delivery is also a bonus.
Maybe they will take Pereira and Jones off us...probably not.
Maybe they will take Pereira and Jones off us...probably not.
Who is a stellar DM for us this summer? Ideally someone like Ndidi would be perfect, but it's not happening and even Rice looks to be priced out of a move. Someone like Neves does indeed look like probably the best out of limited set of options.
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