Minimum Bar for Continuity in Ole's Third Full Season

[Raveneye]

Alright, let's draw the line here. What is the absolute minimum Ole would have to do across all competitions for you to say Ole has earned at least another year with us? Not your dream result, not even what you think is realistic. Maybe not even what you'd class as success (people measure this differently too, I find).

The absolute minimum if you were in charge of hiring and firing for you to keep Ole for another season. Go.

 

[Siorac]

80+ points, with the results actually being a fair reflection of the performances (so not like 2017/18) in the league is the absolute bare minimum.

 

[Matriac]

For him to want to keep doing the job, and show continued progress, that we don't collapse from where we are.

This thread is unnecessary. Has been discussed to death in other threads and will not lead to anything new. People will keep disagreeing until he wins trophies. And even then, some will still want him out.

 

[RK]

I don't really mind as long as he's trying his best, which seems unlikely to change.

 

[Raveneye]

For him to want to keep doing the job, and show continued progress, that we don't collapse from where we are.

This thread is unnecessary. Has been discussed to death in other threads and will not lead to anything new. People will keep disagreeing until he wins trophies. And even then, some will still want him out.

No vague progress statements either. I think in general this has been a proper lens to look at Ole, but only hard results here.

I want people putting down a marker so we can see if they try to lay down a different one when the season is over (barring a ridiculous injury crisis).

 

[charlenefan]

Title challenge

Trophies and run in cups rely on the luck of the draw and or being the best in the competition/on the day so that's why for me a title challenge is the only real expectation I can put on him and the team this season

 

[Gandalf]

Legitimate title challenge. Can never say he must win, for all we know Citeh will add Grealish and Kane before the season starts and whatever they and Chelsea do it will be a fight but he has to have his team in contention until the last couple of fixtures, distant 3rd or 4th place is not going to cut it .

 

[spiriticon]

Get closer to City (maybe Liverpool) after 38 games?

Not sure we can outright claim ourselves to be favourites to win the league next season, but bringing the gap to the champions down to <5 points would be very nice. It would mean we were challenging to the very end.

We've always had decent cup runs under Ole, even when our team was shite, so I expect that to continue

 

[adexkola]

80+ points, with the results actually being a fair reflection of the performances (so not like 2017/18) in the league is the absolute bare minimum.

This has to be revisionist history

 

[manc exile]

75+ points and a good cup run in one of the three cup comps we are in.
A good cup run is a semi at least.

thats it
anything less then its over for me

 

[Ali Dia]

Top 4, keep building until it all eventually clicks. We probably need haaland next summer to truly take us to elite levels but I think we will go deep in all competitions this season. If Chelsea can win a CL with that team then I don’t see why we can’t either. Depends on the draw and if key players stay fit.

 

[OleBoiii]

I find it impossible to draw a clear line, as context matters. What if Maguire, Bruno and Sancho all get long-term injuries? What if we finish 5th but generally play great football, get more points than we did this season, close the gap up to 1st place and advance far in the CL? There are many variables at play here. I will say this: in theory we have a team that's good enough to challenge for titles and go far in the CL. But we are not so good that we can take it for granted to outperform Chelsea, Liverpool and City.

I guess it's important to differentiate between "minimum expectations" and "reasonable expectations". Failure to achieve the former is a sackable offence almost regardless of context. The latter is what we should expect provided nothing weird happens.

 

[Ekeke]

Within 5 points of the winners, ready to go on and match them the next season

 

[Massive Spanner]

80+ points
Domestic cup
QF/SF in the CL

2 out of 3 of those would probably be enough, with the first being a necessity.

 

[hobbers]

Being in the title race until the last 2-3 games of the season. That means finishing within 6 points of the winners.

And not embarrassing ourselves in the CL again. Good showing in the groups and ideally getting to the quarters.

If we're scrapping to get into, or stay in, the top four in April, piss away another load of winnable semi finals/finals, or capitulate in the CL group stage again, then he has to go, no excuse.

 

[elnorte]

Fourth

No trophies

 

[tjb]

People are waaaay to negative on this place We just had a fantastic summer, that can get even better, with by far the best team we have had since 2013 and all you see are people preempting Ole not being capable of performing well.

People don't like admitting it, but Ole has actually done really well with what he has been given throughout his tenure. Most of the negativity towards him has come on the basis of whether he can deliver when he has the tools, which has been unfair, as he has delivered even without them. none the 19/20 season we managed to finish 3rd despite having Lingard Pereira, Fred Mctominay consistently in our first 11 for the majority of the season. Be positive. It reminds me of SAF having to deal with fans discussing how he could end up falling behind tactically if he stayed, he never fell behind, and when he left, it was those managers that wanted to change our team completely that brought our decline. The grass is not always greener.

 

[Lynty]

EPL: 80 points
UCL: Quarter finals
FA Cup: Semi finals

That would be realistic progress in my eyes. Significant injuries or winning a cup gives a bit of leeway.

 

[El Jefe]

Within 5 points of the winners, ready to go on and match them the next season

I'd be slightly more generous than you and say 7 points at the absolute most and that's only of the winner has an outstanding season in the 90 point range.

This season is the year we should solidify ourselves as a top tier team not just in name but performances too. That means a trophy, a respectable CL run and a serious title challenge.

 

[OleBoiii]

To those saying 80+ points etc: what if we win the league with 78 or 79 points? It's happened before.

Also, why on earth would winning a domestic cup be a demand? It's a terrible metric and we never do our best in those tournaments anyways, so why do you even care?

 

[The-Natural]

Smaller points deficit to the eventual winner along with a more coherent playing style.

 

[hobbers]

Most of the negativity towards him has come on the basis of whether he can deliver when he has the tools, which has been unfair, as he has delivered even without them. none the 19/20 season we managed to finish 3rd despite having Lingard Pereira, Fred Mctominay consistently in our first 11 for the majority of the season.

Rubbish. We were heading for a 6th or 7th place finish in the first half of 19/20 and it's only when Ole got the tools, i.e. Bruno, coupled with Covid allowing a total reset, that we got back into the top four. On the last day I might add.

Pereira and Lingard barely got a minute between them after Bruno arrived.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

- Genuine Title Challenge: I have been a massive fan of the work Ole has done thus far and in fact, he doesn't get the respect he deserves from half of the fanbase. However, it gets to a point where progress can only be determined by success and we are at the stage now where we have to look to seriously compete. I expect that we are within touching distance of the title barring some unforeseen injuries etc.

- Champions League Progression: I am one of those who believe that even last season we had a team capable of surprising people in the Champions League. We outplayed PSG like I haven't seen from a Utd side in a decade and looked comfortable in a tough group. Now as we all know, it quickly fell apart after some poor results we crashed out but I would expect us to go one further this season and at least progress from the group. In my opinion, we should expect to progress further with this side. I think across Europe the top teams are going through a relative period of crisis and I would fancy us against most sides so this could be one competition we could pull a few surprises.

- Domestic Cups: Personally, I don't really hold the domestic cup defeats over Ole very strongly for two reasons. Firstly, the standard of the Premier League right now is brilliant, there are a number of top teams and equally a group of very hard teams below that, who are all capable of beating anyone on their day. Secondly, the calendar over Covid has been insane and there have been few opportunities to rotate or rest key players which resulted in us falling away at the tail end of the domestic cups. Progress for me would be another good run in either/both cups and if we can get to a final/win that would be excellent but not the biggest factor when accessing the season as a whole.

- Summary: Ole has built one of the strongest teams in the league on paper and I think it's now time to place higher expectations onto Ole and the playing staff. In order to call this season progress, I think we either need to improve on our league title run and win it, or push the challengers close. Alongside that, providing we don't get a group of death we should be progressing from the group in the Champions League and potentially going further. Domestic cups are a bonus, but it would be great to end this mini trophy drought. All of this also fits under the umbrella of continuous improvement to our style of football. I think with the additions we have made we should be expecting more consistently cohesive performances and ideally a greater degree of control during matches. Now this is an awfully long post and as I'm writing it I realise there are still many factors to consider so it's hard to nail down 'progress' but I truly believe Ole knows what he wants and now it's time to deliver on that.

 

[Ødegaard]

Top 4.
I genuinely believe a few key injuries can ruin the season.

 

[pascell]

Minimum has to be a title challenge, at least QF of the CL and a trophy.

 

[DepaysCowboyHat]

Making a serious title challenge from start to finish, respectable finish in the CL.

 

[FatTails]

• Play good football and dominate the absolute majority of games.
• Better passing all over the pitch. That includes bringing the ball out from the back without Fred/Maguire drama, being able to move defenders out of position the way City do so effectively…and so on.
• Ruthless at beating teams who have a fraction of our budget and resources. Less Sheffield United at home and Villarreal please. There was no excuse last year, there is less of an excuse now.
• Top 4 finish.

I don’t expect us to challenge for the title in any serious way. The cups depend heavily on the draw but if we are dominating most games and beating smaller teams effectively, we should be going far in at least one of the three cup competitions, unless the draws are very unkind to us.

 

[JJ12]

Top 3 and make decent challenges in the cups.

 

[SER19]

Honestly as tough as it sounds, winning or almost winning the PL or CL. He's built a very good squad its hard not to see competing when you look at Chelsea and Liverpool squads to win cl in recent years. Players are only at peak for so long and if ole doesn't have this squad competing this season then somebody else should get a chance

 

[Siorac]

This has to be revisionist history

Why?

We had an xPts of 62 that season. In terms of expected points, we were 6th. We conceded 15 fewer goals than what would have been expected based on the chances because De Gea had an insane season. I don't want an 80+ point season like that, I want us to be actually good value for all those points.

 

[OleBoiii]

Feck it, I'll bite: secure CL football for the 2022-23 season.

That's it. This is the only reasonable minimum metric, imo. Every other manager post Fergie has been sacked when they failed to secure CL football. Ole should not be held to a different standard, even if he's popular and good with transfers.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying that he should keep his job no matter what if we secure CL football.

 

[crossy1686]

Closing the gap on City in the league is all that's necessary. Everything else is nice to have but not a sackable offence for not having

 

[devilish]

- Top 4
- CL semi final or quarter final (if we meet a better club to ours)
- FA cup or EPL cup trophy
- Less painful to watch football

 

[saivet]

A proper title challenge. We're better off finishing third within only a few points from top than being a distant second again.

In the CL it really depends on the draw but we should be looking at QFs.

 

[Siorac]

To those saying 80+ points etc: what if we win the league with 78 or 79 points? It's happened before.

Also, why on earth would winning a domestic cup be a demand? It's a terrible metric and we never do our best in those tournaments anyways, so why do you even care?

Yes, it happened. In the last century. Seriously, that's the last time you didn't need 80+ points to win the league.

Another 70+ points season after signing Varane and Sancho would be a disaster, unless we win the Champions League, or at least get to the final.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Having brought in Sancho and hopefully Varane I would say we need to be at least challenging for the top spot for part of the season and getting to a major final barring some terrible luck if Ole is at least ok as a manager then we should easily be properly challenging with this squad. However, without a DM in the squad, I think he’d be Doing incredibly well to actually win a major trophy and even I would have to be impressed!

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

The absolute minimum for me:

• challenge for the PL until 34th week at least
• SF in FA Cup
• QF in UCL

For the, i don't mind the points total or the position in the the top 4 as long as the team is close to the 1st by 3-4 pts for more than 30 weeks, this will show us that the team actually challenged for the PL, which will obviously require a greater consistency in winning games.

One more thing, by late Dec21/early Jan22, the team should be in position to sustain a PL title challenge

 

[elmo]

Minimum, 75 points, 80 goals scored and maximum of 25 goals conceded.

QF for the CL, semi for FA.

No more of the useless boring football we play 80% of the time, time for him to walk the talk and actually get us playing attacking football instead of talking about it.

 

[shaky]

World Cup Champions. It's overdue and I'm sick of the excuses.

 

[DOTA]

Unless beset by the worst injury crisis we've seen this century then Champions League qualification.

It's a low bar but that's the only thing that on its own is essential to me wanting him to keep his job. It doesn't mean there aren't circumstances where we qualify and I wouldn't want him to go though.