I suspect he will keep his spot for this week although he doesn't deserve to
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Don't you think players like Lingard and Andreas haven't been told that? or is Ole lying to them that they are in his plans but have just shafted them to the outskirts of the squad for the last two years? The problem is we as a club are at the pinnacle in terms of wages and prestige, so accepting that they are not in the plans and should leave just doesn't work for all of these players esp. players who are not young as it would for the other clubs.
Before he comes on?
Lads just implies whoever plays?
That's right, this is the perfect time to get rid and he does have credible suitors who can pay a good sum. What's more infuriating is that we will fail to sign a DM when a James sale would have provided us with supplementary funds and possibly come up short at the end of the season because we held on to a player who struggles to come up with 10 goal contributions in a season when the likes of Elanga and Amad can do the same.
The sensible move would be to sell him and Lingard then use the funds generated to finance a move for a DM like Tchoumen to complete our central defensive unit. Amad/Elanga along with Martial are good enough for a role off the the bench. Very disappointed with this decision, if true!
Im talking about filling their boots…literally no one has filled their boots due to Daniel James to date.
We won the last game he played in 5-1, in fact we totally slowed down around the time he came off and Sancho came on? I’d say it’ll be the reverse this weekend. Sancho to start and get fitness and us to be ahead by a few and James to come on and keep at them. There’ll be goals and it’ll be open. I don’t really see what your point is here apart from you don’t like the player and picking apart a sentence I wrote? Cool. I personally think he’ll score or assist this weekend.
We won 5-1 it had literally zero to do with Dan James. He was the one player who disappointed. There were times he had the ball and refused to run with it. Other times he made the wrong run and times he made bad decisions. He runs around a bit without the ball…with it he’s bang average. Do I like him as a player. No he’s bang average.
But sure he’s better than Sancho because we slowed down after we went 5-1 up and brought off one of the two best players on the pitch….and Dan James
Where did I say he’s better than sancho? I said we slowed down when he went off.
Did you have a point when you stated that?
Actually can’t be arsed for him to start again tomorrow. Would it be too much to ask for Ole to just show abit of bravery. I’d prefer Lingard tbh!
that I don’t think James is better than Sancho but you’re trying to put words in my mouth?
There was no impetus to attack at that point. We won the game in spite of Jame's presence, he was clearly our weakest player. Bruno's repeated frustration with him-and we've seen it countless times before- really says it all.
I Second this
We slowed down because Pogba came off at the same time. It had nothing to do with Dan James. Giving him any credit for that game is generous in the extreme. The Sikhs behind he dugout had just as much to do with that win as him.
Keeping James for another season isn't a bad idea, however we must get Amad a decent loan where he will play week in week out as this is far more important than giving him a few sub appearances / cup games.
We have Pogba, Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood for the wings, even if James is gone Amad won't get much time on the pitch with us IMO.
We have Pogba, Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood for the wings, even if James is gone Amad won't get much time on the pitch with us IMO.
I really don't understand the active dislike some of you have for him. He's the type of player I'm convinced would never cause any drama and would be happy with being a back-up. And I believe he's good enough for that. Also, I very much doubt he's on high wages...
I'm convinced that in a system better suited to his talents, he would shine. Would be a perfect player for Conte I reckon
I'm convinced that in a system better suited to his talents, he would shine. Would be a perfect player for Conte I reckon
He makes good runs & his speed is very useful when playing on the counter. He just isn’t good on the ball, like, at all. If we get any bids over what we paid we should move him on. Technically he’s miles off even the lesser players in the squad.
I think that’s more to do with the fact we were 5-1 up than Sancho coming on for James...
I don’t dislike him as a person. Football is never more than ability and performance for me. He has very limited ability and regularly doesn’t perform well enough to play for a club like United.
He has good pace and tracks back and is realiable...Supposedly why Ole isnt entertaining any loan or transfer offers for James.
Is that really enough to be a valuable squad player?
We are for me in dire need of a central midfielder to compelte our side. James is probably one of the easiest sales we could make and for me he is one of the weakest players in our squad. James and Lingard out = pretty much any central midfielder we have been linked too.
Its bad decision making for me keeping James
Is that really enough to be a valuable squad player?
We are for me in dire need of a central midfielder to compelte our side. James is probably one of the easiest sales we could make and for me he is one of the weakest players in our squad. James and Lingard out = pretty much any central midfielder we have been linked too.
Its bad decision making for me keeping James
I think he is a great backup to have running at tired defenses 70+ minutes into the game. He isnt flashy, but tracks back and can run tirelessly. If Ole can help him with his end product he can turn into an asset.
No, we don't. It's you that's using some correlation between James not playing in our losses that is proof of him being good. The onus is on you to explain how there's a causal relationship.
Dan James played 1700 minutes last season, Wan Bissaka 4700. We lost 12 out of 61 games or so. You don't think James not being involved in the losses can be coincidental when seeing those numbers, especially when the stat isn't even accurate because Villareal was a loss?
Think about it like this: James sat on the bench for half of our losses and didn't come on. The stat can also be interpreted as: "Ole doesn't expect Dan James to do anything and would rather leave a 1 legged Rashford/underperforming Martial/Greenwood/Pogba on the pitch".
No it doesn't. We're only 1 game underway and he's already dropped from the line up today.. My argument isn't that James shouldn't have gotten 1700 minutes last season, it's that he should become obselete during this one with Sancho coming in and Greenwood a year further in his development. Dan James wasn't even in the squad a couple of times and he only played 1700 minutes. How is that indicative of "the coaches agree with me" when we just spent 80m on a winger?
Let's not pretend James' pace was the only reason we created all those chances he helped botch. Mata has a better technique and is also stronger than James. He was pretty good early last season before he went to Spain and he wasn't available when James got that run last season. I get that he's aging, but that doesn't have to mean he's necessarily worse than James.
James got a run of games last season when Greenwood was fit and in poor form. We played 1 legged Rashford ahead of James, because 1 legged Rashford is a superior player to James. Greenwood a year further in his development isn't going to get displaced by James again. And we have Sancho coming in. Martial, Pogba...
Your arguing we still need James now that we're one player deeper with Sancho, because last season Ole didn't rotate because the bench was poor. But you fail to see James was the poor bench! Where do you think he was in those 5000 minutes he didn't play?
To not see Sancho would be the replacement if we parted with James is nuts.
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We clearly disagree on how useful Mata is nowadays, personally I think he's completely shot physically, and James is a safer bet than him.
As for depth, its really simple - if you bring in Sancho and sell James, you've added zero depth to a squad that wasn't deep enough last season. That would be really short sighted, just to get rid of a player you have a clear vendetta against.
It's possible that Lingard will end up taking over the cover role from James, but it remains to be seen if he'll be satisfied with the reduced playing time (which James seems to be fine with).
Anyway, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this, as you want him gone whatever the cost, and I would prefer to keep him around until we know we don't need him.
I'll admit that Mata's value is hard to judge right now, but what you're saying about last season's lack of depth on the wing is demonstrably false.
You don't remember all the games Greenwood sat on the bench and our front 3 was Pogba, Martial, Rashford?
Literally every game James started last season we had Pogba/Greenwood on the bench (or Cavani/Martial with Greenwood up top on the pitch)
We weren't particularly lucky with injuries last season (Martial, Pogba, Rashford, Cavani all being absent for extended periods of time) and still we weren't "forced" to play James. I don't see how Sancho coming in and James leaving would change the situation?
James got plenty of chances last season (1700m) and scored one decisive goal as a winger. He got the nod ahead of Greenwood and failed to impress, I don't see that happening again now that Greenwood is a year further in development and we have a better picture of James' ability.
Demonstrably false? You're being silly now. It's absolutely clear as day. We ended the season with no subs available that Ole felt could change the game in the EL final, despite the forward players being out on their feet. That was due to a lack of depth in those positions, not just on the day, but for the whole season. Rashford played the entire season with multiple injuries for crying out loud.
Based on last season, what we needed desperately was more depth in the forward positions, not exactly the same depth. Adding Sancho gives us that, replacing James with Sancho doesn't, it's exactly the same amount of depth (although a better player, obviously).
Anyway, as I said, we're never gonna agree on this, you think James offers nothing, I think he has a part to play, albeit limited. We'll have to see what happens this season.
You're spouting clear falsehoods about our so called lack of depth last season as a reason to keep James, when I've pointed out, we've had quality options on the bench every time James started. Even the final you mentioned, James was the guy on the bench we would be replacing with Sancho!
You keep bringing up Rashford with injuries, but him at 80% still performed better than Martial/Greenwood/Pogba (players who are ahead of James) which is why he started. So it's a quality problem we'd be improving with getting Sancho in, and James presence doesn't influence it all. If it did, why didn't James play instead of "one-legged Rashford"?
And yes, it is demonstrably false. I've mentioned how we had one of Pogba/Greenwood/Cavani/Martial on the bench every time James started last season (this is a fact). James (who would be replaced by freakin' Sancho), VDB, Fred were on the bench for the EL final (also a fact).
Ole deciding he wants to go to pens and not bringing on Fred's legs in extra time to replace an average Pogba, or him not figuring out how to use his 35m signing VDB within 7 months (who was a goal scoring machine in these competitions), or him not Krul'ing De Gea is on Ole, and says nothing about the quality of the players. Ole doesn't make subs, there's a thread dedicated to this.
You can keep repeating the agree to disagree line, but saying we need to keep James because last season we lacked quality options on the bench is a weird line of thought that's begging for a response. You're the one that's being silly.
It's not just about starts though is it, being able to swap players out to rest them is important too.
Saying it's demonstrably false that we lacked depth is so far removed from reality that I don't think there's much point in continuing this. Fortunately Ole doesn't share your irrational hatred of James, and will continue to use him to allow our better forwards to maintain fitness.
This is true. We’d absolutely no cover in the forwards apart from James, that’s a fact. I wish ole had shown some stones and used him more instead of “80% Rashford” who offered the square root of nothing anyway. I think he could have done more today in the side instead of low pressing Martial. At least James repeatedly works his man and gives a direct impetus. We also need direct and hard working options to compensate for all the low intensity flair players.
It kind of is about starts when Dan James only played 120mins out of 1700 as a sub, but don't let facts get in the way of your opinions, like you do when I mention who's on the bench.
Who do you think is on the bench when Dan James doesn't start? I also hope you understand Sancho would be the player to replace Dan James were he to leave? 1 + 1 ...
Oh yeah Ole really rates him, which is why he only played 1700 min (a whopping 250 mins more than VDB) last season without the addition of Sancho, a less experienced Greenwood and a very poor Martial. Never mind that he didn't make the squad 7 times when fit.
I don't know why you're getting so wound up by me mentioning who was on our bench when Dan James started last season or in the game you referred to (the EL final). What else would you call me stating Pogba/Martial/Cavani/Greenwood being on the bench is refuting your silly point that we don't have quality options on the bench? (never mind that I have no clue how the presence of Dan James affects the matter).
Me pointing out the silliness of your arguments isn't indicative of "irrational hatred" for Dan James.
I agree, it's quite pointless to argue with you further, but not for the reasons that you think.
TL;DR: Pogba, Greenwood, Sancho on the bench aren't quality options, so we should keep Dan James
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You're projecting heavily, I'm not wound up at all, just bored more than anything. You think James should be gone, I don't, Ole clearly doesn't either.
At the end of the season our forward players were all knackered, and in Rashford's case injured. That isn't demonstrably false, it's a fact. Clearly you don't remember it that way, and so our disagreement is based on our different view of what happened.
Dan James is irrelevant to the quality of our bench. He only played 1700 minutes last season. If he was useful in resting "knackered" players, he'd have played more. Furthermore, those minutes (and hopefully many more) will go to Sancho this season.
If you think me pointing out falsehoods in your posts is "so far removed from reality", then you are getting wound up.
you: "we don't have quality depth on the bench"
me: "we have cavani/greenwood/pogba on the bench every time James starts"
you: "It's not only about starts"
me: "98% of James' minutes were as a starter, and whenever James is on the bench, that spot would be Sancho's this season".
you: "we lack a quality option on the bench, so we should keep Dan James"
You want us to upgrade on our bench (Paul fecking Pogba/ Mason Greenwood/ Cavani/Sancho) by keeping Dan James? OK. Makes total sense.
No Dan James, no party! The stats don’t lie.
1700 minutes is almost 19 matches, that's plenty of game time for a squad player, it's half a PL season. It still wasn't enough last season to keep the rest of our attackers fit and healthy, so adding Sancho is what we need, not a like for like swap.
Those players being on the bench when James started still allowed them to rest, all of whom needed more rest than they were able to get last season.
I also didn't say James was an upgrade, I said Sancho was. All I'm saying about James is that he has a part to play.
You keep deliberately misrepresenting what I'm saying to make your arguments, and it's tiresome. However despite that, James will be here this season, and will get some minutes to rest our more talented players.
I just don't expect him to do anything when he has the ball. When he gets tackled or shoots and it goes out for a corner, I feel relieved that we didn't lose the ball. I'm not actually expecting him to do anything with it. Him not losing it is the most I hope for.
I've already pointed out we had quality options available for 1580 of James' minutes, so only 120min of those 1700 would necessarily have to be Sancho's in a like for like swap scenario.
You keep ignoring the fact that we had Pogba/Greenwood/Cavani on the bench ready to fecking go whenever James played. Meaning Ole doesn't rotate and that's why our players are knackered. "lack of quality depth" is demonstrably false.
So either Pogba isn't a quality option from the bench, or you're choosing not to believe he (or Greenwood/Cavani/Martial) were on the bench every time James started (1580/1700 mins).
That's not misrepresenting your stance,, it's literally what you're implying when you keep ignoring all the facts that I've brought to your attention and keep spewing the "lack of quality options on the bench" nonsense.
Can you even answer these basic questions:
Are Pogba/Greenwood quality options from the bench?
Do you believe or do you know how to look up the fact that Pogba/Greenwood/Cavani/Martial were on the bench for all James' starts?
Do you understand that James' 120minutes he got off the bench, could be going to Sancho, in a scenario where James leaves?
This is tedious, you're arguing against points I'm not making, but to answer your question, yes they're all obviously better than James, but that isn't the point - they all needed more rest than they got last season.
If James' 1700 minutes weren't enough to keep other players fit, then just giving those minutes to someone else leaves us in the same predicament. If Sancho takes all of the minutes James had last season, we still need someone to take even more to give the likes of Rashford, Greenwood, etc a rest. That's why James will be around this season.
This is indeed getting tedious, because you keep ignoring facts that debunk your claims, only to bring up a new nonsense claim.
Our most overplayed players were Maguire, AWB, Bruno, not out forwards. Greenwood played 3150 minutes last season, Pogba 2800. Greenwood sat on the bench every other other game to accommodate Pogba/Martial/Rashford. Pogba sat on the bench plenty.
Rashford was relatively poor because he played through injury, not because he was overplayed... But more importantly, in this fantasy world of yours, how does keeping James give us the ability to rest Rashford, when James was never used to rest Rashford last season? (because of the quality gap)
Let me guess: You'll complete ignore the amount of minutes Greenwood and Pogba played, the fact that they were on the bench nearly every time we used Dan James, and then you'll start your post with some version of "it's tedious, you don't live in reality, bla bla bla" only to come up with new nonsense that can easily disproven.
This song and dance about our lack of quality on the bench being a reason to keep Dan fecking James (you don't seriously believe this do you?
) when we just signed an 80m winger, is getting old.Ok I think we've gotten to the bottom of our disagreement - you don't agree that Pogba, Greenwood, Rashford, etc were overplayed last season and needed more rest. Didn't need another unnecessarily condescending essay, that's just showing a lack of maturity, but at least I can see the root of it now.This is indeed getting tedious, because you keep ignoring facts that debunk your claims, only to bring up a new nonsense claim.
Our most overplayed players were Maguire, AWB, Bruno, not out forwards. Greenwood played 3150 minutes last season, Pogba 2800. Greenwood sat on the bench every other other game to accommodate Pogba/Martial/Rashford. Pogba sat on the bench plenty.
Rashford was relatively poor because he played through injury, not because he was overplayed... But more importantly, in this fantasy world of yours, how does keeping James give us the ability to rest Rashford, when James was never used to rest Rashford last season? (because of the quality gap)
Let me guess: You'll complete ignore the amount of minutes Greenwood and Pogba played, the fact that they were on the bench nearly every time we used Dan James, and then you'll start your post with some version of "it's tedious, you don't live in reality, bla bla bla" only to come up with new nonsense that can easily disproven.
This song and dance about our lack of quality on the bench being a reason to keep Dan fecking James (you don't seriously believe this do you?
For me playing Rashford through his injury is the definition of overplayed, and Pogba, Greenwood, et al were exhausted at the end of the season, which means they needed more rest than they got. As you disagree with that, it makes sense that you don't agree with need for James to provide depth.
Yeah, we've gotten to the bottom of our disagreement. You keep holding on to silly opinions that are easily disproven by facts:
- Playing 2800 mins or 3100 and sitting on the bench every other game is somehow being overplayed
- Pogba/Greenwood/Sancho on the bench is still somehow lacking quality depth on the bench
- Keeping James would somehow prevent us from playing an injured Rashford, even though that wasn't the case last season
stop it.I didn't say any of those things, yet more strawmanning. The laughing smilie is for children too, try being an adult for this discussion.Yeah, we've gotten to the bottom of the disagreement. You keep holding on to silly opinions that are easily disproven by facts:
- Playing 2800 mins or 3100 and sitting on the bench every other game is somehow being overplayed
- Pogba/Greenwood/Sancho on the bench is still somehow lacking quality depth on the bench
- Keeping James would somehow prevent us from playing an injured Rashford, even though that wasn't the case last season
My point is this - Greenwood, Pogba, and Rashford were all exhausted by the end of the season. That isn't "easily disproven", it's by theirs and the manager's admission. You forget the lack of a break between the previous season, lack of pre season etc by just focusing on minutes. You don't agree with me (or them/Ole) on that, OK fine, but that's why I think we need to add depth, not maintain it.
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