NoooooOoooOOOoooo
Luckhurst: United prepared to move for a holding midfielder in January
- Thread starter Valar Morghulis
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
We need a GK, two CMs, a backup RB, a CF who isn't in his mid-30s....not going to happen all at once though is it?
Going into this window, we also needed a CB and a RW, sorted both of those positions, now it requires patience.
It's possible to sign loads of players if your criteria is basically 'anybody who is available'
I like to think the club are a little more strategic in their choice of target than this.
Personally, I doubt we win the league this year even with Saul/Neves/Camavinga....so let's identify proper targets, see what can be achieved with what we have and then go again next season from a position of strength and planning
It is but you've seen the calibre of the 3 we've brought in though right?
I am fairly certain it will
By next summer pogba will probably have left as well leaving us even weaker from that department. I don't really believe we will ever get to a stage where we have plugged all the gaps in the squad (to an accepatable level) at the pace we operate. Ultimately I think its down to the glazers not really caring about competing for trophies as long as we are in the champions league
We also often end up conflating commercial matters with football ones which is why the ronaldo signing was such a no brainer for the club, even if it meant us missing out on a midfielder
We do but with our tactical setup I think even the best DM on planet earth will be exposed.
VdB says hello. And to be fair two of our three best signings in recent times are Ronaldo and Cavani who were both totally unplanned, reactionary last second deals.
I don't think we've improved much at all in terms of squad management and transfer strategy. We've been very lucky no one went for Bruno the summer prior to us signing him, and very lucky that Cavani and Ronaldo became available.
Yeah but we really need a DM.
Let's hope McTomminay will be available till the end of season after his comeback. The last game showed us just how crucial he is to our midfield. The only midfielder we have that's no so shit at controlling the ball and have legs to actually press and defend. VDB is still an unknown quality because Ole played Dalot instead of him 
.
.Ole just needs to tell Bruno he’s not a striker. The 4-2-4 on Sunday was ridiculous & we were extremely lucky getting all 3 points. In all honestly we deserved to lose.
Injured.
We do really need a DM, I agree with that much. I don't think I can watch Fred much longer
Disappointing end of the window, we had real potential to challenge on all fronts if we got DM.
hopefully the demands of Ronaldo will make the whole squad and in particular Fred raise their game.
hopefully the demands of Ronaldo will make the whole squad and in particular Fred raise their game.
We needed a CB, got one. Needed a RW, got one. Not a big improvement but an improvement. If not improvement just a good way to deal in the transfer market. As for being lucky, sometimes you need to be lucky in the transfer market. Lots of times. Being lucky doesn't mean those were bad deals..
Cavani was maybe reactionary but turned out to be good. Ronaldo isn't a reactionary deal. It's a deal you make when a player like him is available.
Lindelof is horrible when pressed and the one position you want to be not horrible is DM, otherwise calamities ensue.
plus it’s easier to hit a long ball from defence with more options ahead than it is to do it in midfield
The Premier League is far tougher.
I hope I'm wrong.
The fact that we are begging for Mctominay to come back shows our options. We don't just need a starting midfielder for the double pivot, we are also lacking in quality depth.Matic shouldn't be on the bench, Pogba cant play at the double pivot on a consistent basis and VdB isn't trusted. So the only stable options we have are Fred and Mctominay both of which should be squad players at best.
If the plan is to wait till next year for a midfielder because the player we want is not available, it still makes no sense. We could do loan deals. Anguissa just went on loan. feck it get Herrera back on loan. A starting DM should be priority but even a midfielder good enough to displace Matic on the bench still strengthens the team
If the plan is to wait till next year for a midfielder because the player we want is not available, it still makes no sense. We could do loan deals. Anguissa just went on loan. feck it get Herrera back on loan. A starting DM should be priority but even a midfielder good enough to displace Matic on the bench still strengthens the team
I think it was more the way we were set up. Pogba and Fred were playing way too high in the first half. When Pogba sat deeper in the second half we looked more comfortable. A tweak of the system is needed more than a shiny new signing in my view. Christ McT, Fred, Matic, Pogba, VDB are all experienced internationals- we just need to find a system and combination that will suit us.
DDG still has plenty left, and that isnt even counting henderson so not sure why you said anything about GK. Greenwood looks like he could be a special CF talent, sancho literally has just come in and should settle into our RW spot. Perhaps yes we could get a backup RB, but feel like people are over-valuating that based on watching what liverpool get from their RB. So yeah literally the only position we need help on is CM- and more specifically DM. We just sold james, and could easily have sold lingard as well to fund that purchase and had what could be about as close to perfect a transfer window as we couldve imagined.
think a big issue as well is Bruno. He still seems to be playing like he did last year where he would just push as high up as possible to force creating things. Now with the talent we have attacking wise he will need to be instructed to play further deeper. id like to see him much closer to pogba on the pitch than isolated as a second striker
One out, more to go?
Who is this Christ you speak of? New midfielder?
But we didn't NEED Ronaldo.
With the transfer fee and wages for CR7 and the sale of James to Leeds then we could have got a functional defensive midfielder.
I am delighted we have Ronaldo again but anticipation is always better than the reality usually. We did the same thing with Sanchez. It came out of the blue and only when it looked like he was going to City.
Liverpool have fit centre backs this year and chelsea have tuchel all season as well as lukaku. Its a much stronger league this season. No CDM does definitely mean no title
Let's be honest, as much as it is a huge deal, Ronaldo's transfer came out of nowhere.I pretty much doubt we would've signed DM even if he hadn't come,and that is what worries me.
Even if we had a backup option, signing Ronaldo killed it.
3 world class signings. That's a damn good window. Probably the best I can remember in my lifetime.
Squad's not perfect, but no squad is. City failed to sign a 9. Liverpool failed to sign the quality of backups required if they get injuries again.
Compare the squad we have now to the one Fergie won his final PL with. The depth we have in most positions now is far deeper. Glass half full gents, glass half bloody full please!!!
Squad's not perfect, but no squad is. City failed to sign a 9. Liverpool failed to sign the quality of backups required if they get injuries again.
Compare the squad we have now to the one Fergie won his final PL with. The depth we have in most positions now is far deeper. Glass half full gents, glass half bloody full please!!!
We DO need Ronaldo,HE WILL score plenty of goals, a proper goal scorer.
We didnt actually need a right wing this summer though, greenwood was in great form there at the end of last season
On the ronaldo signing, it is certainly exciting but there have been questions around whether juve and portugal would be better without him in recent years
Agreed, we were not signing a CM this window.
The worrying thing is how Carrick, Fletcher, Mkenna and the like fail to see this as coaches alongside Ole. It should have been obvious last season that a midfielder with elite passing ability is required.
Last season he showed how good he can be against Leeds and in the final against Villareal, in the rest of the games was subpar for our quality, so let's hope he build on that because having a couple of good games is not enough, but more than ever we have to hope he will step up, Fred will become crucial again like past two seasons too, when he shakes off his early form after very long season.Let's hope McTomminay will be available till the end of season after his comeback. The last game showed us just how crucial he is to our midfield. The only midfielder we have that's no so shit at controlling the ball and have legs to actually press and defend. VDB is still an unknown quality because Ole played Dalot instead of him
It will probably help not to play one midfielder there too for both of them, meaning Matic is absolute dogshite elavingeven better hole there defensively and offesnviely, while with Pogba we will struggle against pressing teams, so yeah will be McFred again and at least we can say both palyers can play together after all these years.
Then fingers crossed VdB will step up and can come into the side for whoever from McFred is out of form. But big question marks.
Shame Ole's pants are half brown at times and won't give a chance to Hannibal, even for his young age he's a great palyer , a typyical one who would step up, unlike Garner or others who need more time and are shy to impose on the game. Maybe hopefully some january loan/buy might go through.
This bolded bit is the problem now or should I say the risk.
The problem with spending a bit and getting Ronaldo in but without fixing a crucial area of the team is that we’re sort of setting ourselves up to fail whilst simultaneously increasing the expectation levels.
Don’t get me wrong I’m excited and expect/hope to see us do well. But if the midfield causes us as many problems as some of us fear and we fall short because of it all we will hear at the end of the season regardless is ‘we got Ronaldo and still didn’t win the league / Ole needs to go / blah blah.’
Ronaldo will be used as a stick to beat the manager if the midfield scuppers us this season, quote me on it.
You are watching a different player than the McTominay I watch. This is the box to box McTominay:
2019/20:
Defence
Tackles 43
Tackle success % 51%
Blocked shots 12
Interceptions 31
Clearances 33
Headed Clearance 20
Recoveries 147
Duels won 170
Duels lost 124
Successful 50/50s 31
Aerial battles won 44
Aerial battles lost 31
Errors leading to goal 1
2020/21
Defence
Tackles 51
Tackle success % 47%
Blocked shots 11
Interceptions 29
Clearances 43
Headed Clearance 29
Recoveries 154
Duels won 167
Duels lost 116
Successful 50/50s 26
Aerial battles won 49
Aerial battles lost 31
Errors leading to goal 0
Think he'll be really good in a 5-3-2. So he'll effectively be in the DM / CB hybrid role people are talking about. Sort of like what Matic does now. Won't be as exposed aerially because Maguire / Varane can deal with long balls. Lindelof is actually very good in mopping up and in 1v1 battles when the ball is on the ground.
A right wing back is pretty much a necessity in that system, so we'd have to bank on Dalot to improve or AwB to suddenly become Trent.
We'd also have to drop a forward and we suddenly have too many of those now. So:
------------------------- GK ---------------------------
------ Varane -- Lindelof -- Maguire ------
---- AwB ---------------------------------- Shaw --
---------------- Pogba -- McT ---------------------
--------------------- Bruno ----------------------------
--------- Greenwood ------ Ronaldo ----------
No space for two of Greenwood / Rashford / Sancho / Cavani in that side. But I think that's an overall better team than our current 4-2-3-1.
Are we really going to leave the transfer window with no midfielder? It doesn't even have to be a purchase, we're that desperate. A loan will suffice.
If McFred are injured for any moderate amount of time, we're pretty much done. On paper, our set of midfielders have to rank no better than 10th in the league, and that's being generous. Every team we face will fancy taking us to task through the middle and we will have to dissuade them with personnel they genuinely have no reason to fear.
We've made superb acquisitions, but you cannot just leave a poor midfield with a one year worse and older Matic in it as is.
The point has been raked over coals enough times:
Van de Beek - persona non grata
Matic - it's arguable if he's even PL level anymore
Lingard - not a CM
Pogba - far better utilised in an attacking capacity
McTominay - the what if factor of his operation and ETA back into the fold being superfluous is risky in itself. We've given no leeway to him should he have any niggles or setbacks.
Fred - seems to be the caf whipping boy all of a sudden, but still our best specialist. Needs to be deployed as a runner/haranguer, otherwise he's half the player. It's on the coaching staff to see to it that he is utilised correctly or bring someone in who makes up for that.
The only other viable options are bringing Mejbri into the fold or, putting a defender into midfield, the latter of which is looking more and more like the logical thing to do. Matic is no more capable in midfield than a CB by now, especially with how he hides.
Perhaps we can make it to the January window still pursuant of the title with the above, but it should be a surprise to noone if we've dropped too many points by then via the midfield to still be in contention.
Above absolutely everything, it's imperative McFred stay fit - whatever people want to sling at Fred, he's easily 1/2 of the best midfield combination we can muster, and we'll suffer without him if the remainder of the players above are supposed to be picking up the slack for what he provides.
I hold faint hope we will bring a body in before the close of the window.
If McFred are injured for any moderate amount of time, we're pretty much done. On paper, our set of midfielders have to rank no better than 10th in the league, and that's being generous. Every team we face will fancy taking us to task through the middle and we will have to dissuade them with personnel they genuinely have no reason to fear.
We've made superb acquisitions, but you cannot just leave a poor midfield with a one year worse and older Matic in it as is.
The point has been raked over coals enough times:
Van de Beek - persona non grata
Matic - it's arguable if he's even PL level anymore
Lingard - not a CM
Pogba - far better utilised in an attacking capacity
McTominay - the what if factor of his operation and ETA back into the fold being superfluous is risky in itself. We've given no leeway to him should he have any niggles or setbacks.
Fred - seems to be the caf whipping boy all of a sudden, but still our best specialist. Needs to be deployed as a runner/haranguer, otherwise he's half the player. It's on the coaching staff to see to it that he is utilised correctly or bring someone in who makes up for that.
The only other viable options are bringing Mejbri into the fold or, putting a defender into midfield, the latter of which is looking more and more like the logical thing to do. Matic is no more capable in midfield than a CB by now, especially with how he hides.
Perhaps we can make it to the January window still pursuant of the title with the above, but it should be a surprise to noone if we've dropped too many points by then via the midfield to still be in contention.
Above absolutely everything, it's imperative McFred stay fit - whatever people want to sling at Fred, he's easily 1/2 of the best midfield combination we can muster, and we'll suffer without him if the remainder of the players above are supposed to be picking up the slack for what he provides.
I hold faint hope we will bring a body in before the close of the window.
This is a mistake.
We need a midfielder desperately.
We need a midfielder desperately.
A young Matic would have stupendous, but who out there would you even consider to be like Matic? We need a calming influence in the middle of the park with great mobility, who reads the game like a mind reader, has excellent passing range, and can boss people physically. Who?
It's great to see the calibre of players joining United. Varane looked fantastic against Wolves, Sancho is a top player and Ronaldo coming back is the exactly the type of personality the dressing room needs.
However, I am slightly worried about the balance of the squad. Sancho IMO isn't an out and out winger. He mostly comes inside, whether thats on the left or right. Look at the first couple of games. Ole choose to play Sancho on the left and play James (a player who we just sold) on the right. I think that tells you even Ole knows the qualities Sancho brings to the team and that isn't width. Now that we've sold James, and considering that AWB isn't going to be providing much of an attacking threat down the right wing, who do United have to play there? Greenwood won't offer width, he's a striker by nature. Rashford, similar to Sancho will come inside. We saw last year Ole tried Rashy on the right wing and it wasn't ideal. Amad? Last I checked we're trying to loan him out and if he does stay, is he ready to be a starter? To be honest, I'm not convinced that we have solved the issue of the right wing.
Furthermore, the midfield... I mean the Wolves game was atrocious with regards to the midfield. Pogba is wasted in a two, he's much better playing further up the pitch. Fred isn't good enough. McTominay is the only player you could say is solid in a 2, yet we lack another midfielder to partner him with. We definitely need a holding mid to play alongside McTominay. If only Matic was 5 years younger...
There's no doubt we have quality up front, a solid back 4, and the left wing is stacked with players. But I wouldn't be surprised if we end up looking unbalanced this season, with no threat on the right hand side and a midfield that lacks any balance.
However, I am slightly worried about the balance of the squad. Sancho IMO isn't an out and out winger. He mostly comes inside, whether thats on the left or right. Look at the first couple of games. Ole choose to play Sancho on the left and play James (a player who we just sold) on the right. I think that tells you even Ole knows the qualities Sancho brings to the team and that isn't width. Now that we've sold James, and considering that AWB isn't going to be providing much of an attacking threat down the right wing, who do United have to play there? Greenwood won't offer width, he's a striker by nature. Rashford, similar to Sancho will come inside. We saw last year Ole tried Rashy on the right wing and it wasn't ideal. Amad? Last I checked we're trying to loan him out and if he does stay, is he ready to be a starter? To be honest, I'm not convinced that we have solved the issue of the right wing.
Furthermore, the midfield... I mean the Wolves game was atrocious with regards to the midfield. Pogba is wasted in a two, he's much better playing further up the pitch. Fred isn't good enough. McTominay is the only player you could say is solid in a 2, yet we lack another midfielder to partner him with. We definitely need a holding mid to play alongside McTominay. If only Matic was 5 years younger...
There's no doubt we have quality up front, a solid back 4, and the left wing is stacked with players. But I wouldn't be surprised if we end up looking unbalanced this season, with no threat on the right hand side and a midfield that lacks any balance.
To be fair, Ole is excellent at cuddling.Who is Luckhurst saying the 6 options are?
Fred McTominay Matic Pogba VDB and Garner?
There's two valid options there and one of them has just had surgery, and the other is Fred.
The real reason we had no plans to sign a CDM is the squad is full, because we give new contracts out like candy and give Lingard and Jones all the cuddles they need to convince them to not push for moves.
Is this supposed to fill me with confidence? Ruben Neves isn't even an out and out DM and compares like this:
Tackles: Neves 86, McTominay 51
Tackle success: Neves 53%, McTominay 47%
Blocked shots: Neves 22, McTominay 11
Interceptions: Neves 65, McTominay 29
Clearances: Neves 40, McTominay 43
Recoveries: Neves 223, McTominay 154
That's not even comparing him to an out and out DM and he's already in the mud. I won't compare his stats to actual holding mids like Ndidi because I don't want to murder the boy.