[Redfrog]

The problem is not just Ole, it's McKenna and Carrick too. None of them has coached or managed at a high level. When you get a situation like in tonight's game they completely lose control and panic.

From the way we were playing you'd have thought we were down two men against peak Barca.

I like Ole and never was an Ole out guy, but watching the face of McKenna and Carrick after the sending off scared me. It was like they were lost…and Ole is always chatting with them.
Add to that our inability to keep the ball and be very frustrating, I don’t know what to make of it.

If it was City or Chelsea no way they would have been that bad against this team. They probably would have had most of the possession and chances.

But at the same time the team has progressed well.

So really, it is a difficult choice, but at the end of the day, Ole seems to lack this killing instinct which can turn him from good to great.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

The problem is not just Ole, it's McKenna and Carrick too. None of them has coached or managed at a high level. When you get a situation like in tonight's game they completely lose control and panic.

Meanwhile, Carlos Queiroz recently signed to be the manager for Egypt. I'm absolutely fuming.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Just saw the red incident and don't agree with that. These european refs are fannies.

Yes, reds should be only when legs are broken or teeth are taken out by punches. Studs on legs is a fair tactic which should be allowed on all players of all teams.

 

[Coops73]

What's the point of buying 2 top tier attackers and taking them off at vital points in a vital tournament? Only then to defend with a team that isn't structured to defend. Defending with 55 minutes to go is something you'd do in a game of FIFA, not real life.

I rest my case

 

[2 man midfield]

Two were against barca in both legs, at least one is PSG. Bad ones were Leipzig, Istanbul, and this one

I thought there’d be a few good sides in there but that’s still way too high. 6 of those games were an entire group stage. I don’t think we’ll go out of the group, so no point in having a total meltdown, but if we don’t go through then serious questions need to be asked of his job.

 

[DWelbz19]

Different manager and staff have different ways to solve an issue

https://www.premierleague.com/match/6954

Look at the possession and shots, two subs midfielder and forward. Not like this poor manager, mostly defending-minded player.

You only have to go back literally a game week to see how Chelsea and Tuchel reacted to a red against Liverpool. Night and day.

 

[Joseunited]

Whats funny about that?

Seriously?He wants him to stay long term unless we don't make it out of the group.

 

[golden_blunder]

This is why we need a Rice type

 

[atkar83]

What a depressing morning. First the game then the news of Norm Mcdonald passing away. How moods can change after 3 or so hours.

 

[Ranchero]

With the exception of Kante, under various managers each of Chelsea’s midfielders have at one time or another been viewed as not good enough or not suitable to English football. But under the right manager each of those once criticised midfielders looks like a top player.

There is a difference between short term criticism that every player gets and the year in year out lack of quality in central midfield at United which has been the case for eight years

 

[dpansheth]

What subs.

i think I quoted you, didnt I?
Edit: apologies..
edit #2: I hate this coaching setup. Period. Bunch of “old boys club” (ironic we lost to Young Boys” )

 

[RedDevil@84]

This is why we need a Rice type

Would have got subbed off

 

[golden_blunder]

We all made fun of the young boys at the wankdorf stadium pre-match but they’ve fecked us over

 

[The Irish Connection]

Really poor. There was no reason for us to give it away so easily any time we got it, and the subs were weird. Lingard in a midfield 2 at the end, strange.
shite result.

 

[croadyman]

Difference is Chelsea have top players in midfield who can create and hold the ball and dictate pace. We have Matic Fred and McTominay.

Yeah that's down to us neglecting that area for too many years

 

[Wheato]

There are no easy games in the champions league. But with 10 men on a plastic pitch, you are in trouble.

A few things that surprised and annoyed me.

First of all, AWB was getting forward much more in this game than he has done so far in any games this season. He even got a cross in. Unfortunately, his touch let him down and he lunged in to win it back. It was completely unnecessary. We were a goal up and the ball was deep into their half. Pretty much destroyed the match as a contest, but it didn't need to.

To compensate for losing AWB, we overly adapted the team and lost any sort of discernable formation. Instead of subbing Sancho for Dalot, it should have been Varane to center back and Lindelof to right back. Donny should have stayed on to fight it out in midfield where we were completely overrun. Because we took off so many offensive players, when we won the ball back, there was no outlet, apart from Ronaldo on his own. Then we brought him off.

We flooded the pitch with defenders, but it was in midfield where we needed to win the ball back, because by the time the back 5 have to intervene, it is usually a last ditch tackle or a defensive header. If you can control the ball in midfield, you can control the game.

The defensive side of our midfield is very weak. Pogba and Fred are easily dispossessed. We need a midfield destroyer. Someone who can go toe to toe with the opposition, to win the ball back, to control the game. If we had someone like that, I don't think we would have ditched the game plan so easily. Even if we were going to sit back, we could have countered with our world class forwards, but we just couldn't get hold of the ball. Fred is more of a blocker, than a ball winner. When he does win it back, he often loses it straight away. Pogba was completely crowded out, Bruno was a bystander due to the supply issue.

The only positive was Bruno's filthy pass and Ronaldo popping up to slot the ball through the keepers legs.

We will still probably top this group, but my God do we make life hard for ourselves!

Now, has anyone got Bissouma's phone number?

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

This is why we need a Rice type

Definitely; the DM position is the top priority. Matic and Fred need moving on and replaced by a big upgrade in quality.

 

[hellhunter]

You only have to go back literally a game week to see how Chelsea and Tuchel reacted to a red against Liverpool. Night and day.

I think at least statistically, 10 man Chelsea were battered more than United today, just without the Lingard brainfart.

 

[Utd heap]

You only have to go back literally a game week to see how Chelsea and Tuchel reacted to a red against Liverpool. Night and day.

Yeh and they'll have a shit day when we have a good one?

 

[Godfather]

I just don't know why Ole isn't able to get any kind of consistency out of us. One would think a game like on the weekend would give a lift. Yet we came out today slow and pedestrian even before the sending off. Every good result is followed by some horrific performances under Ole. No idea why that is.

 

[Piratesoup]

Classic

 

[Desert Eagle]

What a depressing morning. First the game then the news of Norm Mcdonald passing away. How moods can change after 3 or so hours.

Damn first I'm hearing of that. Terrible news.

 

[RedSky]

Not match day 6 fielding your kids after winning the first 5?

Well obviously. But those results dont matter in the slightest. If you're going to have a hiccup, best to do it early.

 

[DWelbz19]

Yeh and they'll have a shit day when we have a good one?

They’ve already had their good one — the CL title. I’ll hold my breath for when our good one arrives.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Post seemed pretty spot on to me, all things considered. What do you disagree with out of interest?

The last two lines. So easy to abuse the manager. I agree he's not of the same calibre as the top guns in business, but that was just plain nonsense.

Don't look at the name, look at the team. Man for man they were stronger, faster, and more energetic. And they had an extra man for almost an hour, of course, along with one of the loudest home supports I've ever seen, felt like Turkey all over again. They were used to the astroturf, we weren't. Constantly slipping and misplacing passed both to man and into space - there's a reason why artificial pitches are looked down upon. It was a team possessed, they played like Leeds on drugs, like I said in another thread. Their celebrations should tell you everything - they were delirious about winning their cup final - a win they wouldn't have had if not for a Lingard brainfart with the last touch of the game.

Contrary to the EL final, I felt Ole was better with his subs today as well. Each of his subs, bar Martial in the end, got us more control in the game. A point away in the CL was a good return even with better teams under SAF with 11 men on the pitch. And I feel we were robbed of a penalty and that the home team got away with fouls in the name of passion as well. It's all well and nice when you want us to keep attacking, but given how YB were playing , we'd have conceded 3 or 4 more on the counter and then these knee-jerkers would be complaining about how Ole got hammered by nobodies. Like it or not, our already weak midfield was horribly exposed till Ole took Bruno and Ronaldo off and Pogba shifted back into the middle. It was one man heroics by Fred for over half an hour.

Ole has had terrible games before, but I don't think this is one of them. Not even close.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Well obviously. But those results dont matter in the slightest. If you're going to have a hiccup, best to do it early.

As long as they are not "intractable"

 

[The Hilton]

You didn't deserve more than that I'm sorry. They wiped the floor with us, if you don't see it then it's not worth the conversation so let's end it here. Apologies.

Clearly we have different definitions of wiping the floor. Wolves were way better against us with 11 than Young Boys with 10, who created only a couple of chances.

Having short memories is another hallmark of children, so by the time you've outgrown the smileys you'll hopefully be able to remember back to our previous match.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

It's one game. It's tiresome how redcafe lurches into total meltdown after one result. Seriously get a grip.

 

[Ranchero]

Do Young Boys have better midfielders than us?

Honestly, the mental gymnastics people will play to excuse poor management is amazing.

I agree it was abysmal management. It was a different argument

 

[Mockney]

Every other top 4 side controls that game with 10 men. Or at least has a fecking shot

 

[RedDevil@84]

It's one game. It's tiresome how redcafe lurches into total meltdown after one result. Seriously get a grip.

To be fair, we do the other way too. We just won a league game against feckin Newcastle, but the celebrations lasted for days in many threads.

 

[tjb]

I'm not too fussed on this loss. But it does highlight a massive issue that we may have. We need to control games better, so that even in situations where we are down to 10, it's easier for us to hold the ball. We can't afford to lose a league game in this manner

 

[steffyr2]

Because we were being hemmed back, Ronaldo wasn't closing anyone down and Bruno had barely touched it for 20mins.
Brave calls to take the top boys off, and of course will bear scrutiny when that happens in the last min.

If we draw that, everyone accepts it was a difficult pitch and early red that did us. Instead, it's all on Ole etc etc.

What did their replacements do differently?
I can't help but think that removing Ronaldo (who's likely to score) and Bruno (who can control the ball and score) is only a good idea if you have replacements who would do something better. Did they?
We can see what happens when everyone becomes a defender, btw. So maybe it wasn't important that Ronaldo wasn't closing anyone down and Bruno hadn't touched the ball. Maybe the players who weren't getting the ball to them should have been replaced.

 

[Cee90]

Disgusting performance.

I can’t remember seeing us get so outplayed by a team like Young Boys, we made them look like a prime Barcelona.

No offence to them, but we should still win that with the amount of quality we have on the pitch even with 10 men.

Ole and the coaching staff have to take a lot of the blame here.

 

[Superunknown]

Progress is boring and overrated. It's all about the one step forward, one/two steps back, tbh.

Lingard with the backpass is poetry. A player who we should have offloaded in the Summer, but we held on to him, like we have done with so many players for most of this last decade. It's like trying to swim in a sea of mud with lead weights.

 

[cj_sparky]

I thought the performance was poor before we took the the lead and that Young Boys where unlucky to be behind. They where creating chances 11 v 11, so as soon as Wan Bissaka was sent off it was always going to be tricky.

I wasn't surprised to see Sancho hooked for Dalot, he seemed to be trying too hard to impress and was making silly mistakes. So the easy choice.

The shift to 5 at the back wasn't surprising, although I half expected Ole to sacrifice one of Bruno or Pogba as he did when we had 10 men against Spurs to get Varane on and allow him to keep Donny in the middle alongside Fred, although neither of them have the ability to keep the ball and relieve the pressure. We really need a central midfielder who can bring us better control in the game.

The red card and Lingard's assist are both avoidable, but the individual mistakes shouldn't distract from how poor we looked overall.

 

[DSG]

Lingard is a product of the park bus approach that we have seen not working before. He shouldnt be where he is.
Ive said before and say again. Our negativity has been revealed for years in our set up for defending set pieces. ALL players in the box...no out ball so when cleared it comes back in or invites a shot from the edge of the box. As Neves knows. Inviting pressure.
It is an amateurish setup...and a metaphor for what we witness when the going gets tough.

??? Lingard was put on because of his excellent work rate to try and apply pressure further up the pitch. We weren’t getting that from Ronaldo. I don’t think that’s a “park the bus’ approach when you are a man down. You could argue that Greenwood might have been a better option, but he doesn’t have the work rate of Lingard. Seriously, I think you fellas need to take a break from football for awhile. This is a painful loss, but this team won their league last season, they are pretty well coached. I think the outrage is a bit comical.

 

[Ranchero]

Yeah that's down to us neglecting that area for too many years

Since Fergie left. Remember Schweinstiger and Schneiderlin? The latter being a French Declan Rice. Not a compliment.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

I think one of the main things people dislike about Ole is his subs.
Whether it’s the timing / lack of / or correct players

so being 1-0 up against young boys was good.

taking off Ronaldo Bruno Sancho so we had zero outlet, then taking off Fred
Putting on Lingard and Martial.
What the actual feck

Lingard is a product of the park bus approach that we have seen not working before. He shouldnt be where he is.
Ive said before and say again. Our negativity has been revealed for years in our set up for defending set pieces. ALL players in the box...no out ball so when cleared it comes back in or invites a shot from the edge of the box. As Neves knows. Inviting pressure.
It is an amateurish setup...and a metaphor for what we witness when the going gets tough.

Absolutely fine. I've got no issue with blaming Ole for things like the team (though everyone pre game said fine... some even said too many first teamers), the tactics or the subs.

But to ONLY moan about Ole is stupid? Those posters get on my fecking nerves.. it feels like they're almost happy we lost so they can say "I was right, Ole is shit"

AWB was an idiot, Lingard was an idiot... there's a few mistakes tonight.

If I was Lingard, I'd go and stand next to Ole in the post match and apologise. Two minutes, one fecking job (run hard, support the defence, don't do anything stupid).

 

[Shane88]

We have to; we couldn't have asked for a kinder draw. No excuses now.

We won't. We're going into the rest of these games basically 1-0 down, desperately chasing wins against Villarreal and Atalanta for the next 4 games.

This result has absolutely fecked the group for us.