Looking at current stats, Ole is way ahead. He’s dragging Leicester into the mire and that is with an excellent squad. Tielemans has already indicated he is looking to leave
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You need to look at it from a bigger perspective though. As you say look at the facts. Guardiola has won trophies since Ole arrived, so has Klopp and in the space of a short while so has Tuchel. Who is the odd one out?
Who is the serial bottler when he gets a sniff of a trophy?
Who has spent hundreds of millions on players, yet we still dont look any different playing wise than when he first came?
In fact his best record for wins was when he first came as interim.
I was hoping Ole would be a success, but the sad fact is he isn't. Hes now going down the road of excuses all the time of why we don't win games, instead of looking at the whole match and his decisions.
Only teams like Bayern or Psg that run their league can afford to go for coaches like Potter Hassenhutl, Gaspierini. For us its too much of a risk.
We need a reply to Klopp Pep and Tuchel. Zidane or Conte is a good reply but its not just about getting a big name. We should also consider if the next manager suit the players we have. I think Zidane does but not so sure about Conte. His signings are also nothing to be excited about.
So if Zidane doesn't want to come here and Conte is not capable of adapting to suit our players then we should look at the likes of Enrique Mancini Rodgers and Ten Haag. They have all won something and still good but we should consider if they suit our players
Still to early to sack Ole but he's on sack watch for now
We need a reply to Klopp Pep and Tuchel. Zidane or Conte is a good reply but its not just about getting a big name. We should also consider if the next manager suit the players we have. I think Zidane does but not so sure about Conte. His signings are also nothing to be excited about.
So if Zidane doesn't want to come here and Conte is not capable of adapting to suit our players then we should look at the likes of Enrique Mancini Rodgers and Ten Haag. They have all won something and still good but we should consider if they suit our players
Still to early to sack Ole but he's on sack watch for now
As much as I hate to admit this, Mancini is probably one of the best coaches out there. He’s worked wonders with resources at hand no matter where he’s been but the Italy job was his dream job so we can probably forget that.
As much as I don’t think Pochettino is up to the job, I think he’ll ultimately be our next manager by July.
Leicester is not on the same planet squad-wise as Man United. Sure he bottled things but that's only natural for a team like Leicester. They play with Ihenacho for feck sake and the 30something Vardy.
Also he managed to win the fa cup throwing us out on the way, so maybe he isn't the serious bottler you claim to be
Me too that's why Ten Haag would be my first choice and why I wouldn't mind a punt on Potter. I think where we got it wrong with Van Gaal, despite him being out of touch with the current game, was that we expected him to be what Fergie was - a manager/DOF rolled into one and it was disastrous not from a stylistic p.o.v but from a recruitment perspective, in the end he didn't have the cutting edge forwards to create and make the most of possession and didn't have individually great defenders so he dovetailed towards negative tactics.
With Ole we have a manager who excels on the DOF aspect of his role but is limited on the coaching side. He also doesn't care too much for possession and control of the game so he can't sustain dominance over a 45 minute period. He has built a strong side but he can't turn it into winners. This is why we need a coach, to bring organization and cohesiveness to our play. I am shocked Ole hasn't had the self awareness to realize his own limitations and taken steps to bring in an assistant who covers for them, is it ego?
Rodgers is not the answer. If that appointment happens, the Ole ins will get lots of ammo when Rodgers ultimately fails. There will be many I-told-you-sos.
In the same way Ramos was Real’s Jones.
Just looked under my sofa and found three of them. Come on, United board, pull your fingers out!
I seriously hope not.
That PSG side have been playing shit on a stick football whenever I've watched them lately and they've got even better individuals in attack than we do.
I am not saying Rodgers should be our next coach but the suggestion that Ole is a better coach is ludicrous.
Klopp, Pep and Zidane weren't born winners they were once novices, big risks and had to start somewhere. My first choice would be Ten Haag but I think Potter is in a position where Pochettino was at Southampton: managing a small club but with a coherent style that can be translated to a bigger stage, maybe United is too far a step but the ingredients are there on both sides - he has a style that he is capable of executing and we have a team full of stars lacking coherence and direction.
It now depends on whether he has the leadership and communication skills to get through to superstars and whether they will listen to him but I don't think it's as outlandish as some make it out to be. There is always a risk with every managerial appointment.
Michael Edwards at Liverpool wouldn't have counted as a proper structure by some fans but he did a fantastic job which greatly aided Jurgen Klopp and Liverpool who won both the League and CL.
From what's in the public domain, United do now have people in various divisions which head the recruitment department. And one of those divisions is the analytics department which is headed by Mick Court who is a Sports Scientist and has a team working under him who do the number crunching as far as statistical analysis goes.
I honestly believe we now have the structural support to bring in a head coach like Ten Hag or Potter. And even though I do admire Conte, I personally don't feel he's the right fit and we'd end up wasting a ton of money in the transfer market to appease him. He also comes across as quite temperamental and is known to threaten to quit his job if his demands are not met like we've seen at his previous clubs. I'm also of the opinion that the footballing ideology of a coach like Ten Hag or even Potter is more exciting imo and would have a potentially greater effect when it comes to creating a identity at the club from a coaching perspective. Ten Hag has also shown to be better than Conte in the CL whilst coaching a team with less resources and instilling a more exciting brand of football imo . And he's also achieved that by bringing through the youth.
I don't think he has much about him tactically. He was lucky to inherit a Madrid side with world class players in almost every position at their peak.
Any United fan saying Brendan Rodgers should stop supporting us immediately.
Our next coach should be somebody on the up, not somebody who has peaked elsewhere and we're trying to replicate that success, like we did with Mourinho and Van Gaal, instead of ushering in a new era like we did with Fergie.
Look at the difference Nagelsmann has already made at Munich or Tuchel at Chelsea - if we axe Ole then our board is likely to appoint either Nicky Butt or Carlo Ancellotti.
Look at the difference Nagelsmann has already made at Munich or Tuchel at Chelsea - if we axe Ole then our board is likely to appoint either Nicky Butt or Carlo Ancellotti.
I rate Rodgers but I'd rather we not touch any former Liverpool manager with a barge pole.I'd have Ole over Brendan F*cking Rodgers any god damn day.
Some of you are just deluded.
Crying about not winning stuff then hiring Brendan Rodgers
Be better with your manager ins.
Absolutely. For example, as highly regarded a coach as Tuchel was, he hadn't won many major trophies (other than the French league) before Chelsea. I'm not saying that the Ajax Coach is a top manager in the making but like you say every one has to start somewhere. This idea that we have to get the biggest name is flawed. Obviously quality is paramount and if an established coach fits the bill then obviously we should make it happen.
This. Imagine Conte in the summer of 2019 after selling Lukaku and getting in just AWB and Maguire then being told to make something out of Rashford, Martial, James, Lingard and Pereira or 2020 after spending the whole summer chasing Sancho and then got a couple of teenagers and a Midfielder he didn't even want. He would have thrown a hissy fit and been on the first flight out of Manchester.
Assuming things don't go catastrophically wrong over the next couple of months I think he will finish the season, but then maybe moved up to a non-coaching role over the summer rather than sacked outright. I think this would be the best move for him and the club, and he could still do a very useful job whilst the first team gets a new coach with fresh ideas.
The only way he starts next season as head coach is if we win the league or CL, imo. I know people say the owners are happy as long as he gets top four, but I really think with the squad we now have a failure to win silverware will see a change of approach.
As for the next manager, not Conte and I don't think Zidane would be tempted. Ten Hag? Potter? Yeah, why not?
The only way he starts next season as head coach is if we win the league or CL, imo. I know people say the owners are happy as long as he gets top four, but I really think with the squad we now have a failure to win silverware will see a change of approach.
As for the next manager, not Conte and I don't think Zidane would be tempted. Ten Hag? Potter? Yeah, why not?
When I entered redcafe a few moments ago the 3 threads at the top were:
Next manager
We are an awfully coached team
Would you take Conte as next United manager?
My take on the latter two are „indeed we are“ and „no“.
The problem is that the 3 I would have liked at United are out of reach (Klopp, Tuchel, Nagelsmann) and my fourth choice would still be Poch so also not realistic.
Otherwise I cannot really think of anyone who would fill me with excitement.
Surely not Zidane, would be the French Ole.
Leverkusen and Napoli seem to play decent football, but I think both managers were introduced a few months back.
Next manager
We are an awfully coached team
Would you take Conte as next United manager?
My take on the latter two are „indeed we are“ and „no“.
The problem is that the 3 I would have liked at United are out of reach (Klopp, Tuchel, Nagelsmann) and my fourth choice would still be Poch so also not realistic.
Otherwise I cannot really think of anyone who would fill me with excitement.
Surely not Zidane, would be the French Ole.
Leverkusen and Napoli seem to play decent football, but I think both managers were introduced a few months back.
Bit like elf on a shelf. Fergies keep on moving
How is Zidane the French Ole when he won 3 straight CL titles in a row
Ole's CL record is embarrassing compared to Zidane's.
I really don’t think someone like Potter would be ready for a job like United. Like Ole, he would also be competing with Pep, Klopp and Tuchel.
Having a brand and actually implementing it successfully at a big club and making players (including big name players) believe and work hard for it are two completely different things.
Nagelsmann case for example is different. First Bayern’s squad is miles better than any other in their league. Second Nagelsmann already had good experience in the CL before he joined Bayern.
Having a brand and actually implementing it successfully at a big club and making players (including big name players) believe and work hard for it are two completely different things.
Nagelsmann case for example is different. First Bayern’s squad is miles better than any other in their league. Second Nagelsmann already had good experience in the CL before he joined Bayern.
I think he meant that, he’d flatter to deceive. His past record is irrelevant where Utd is concerned. There’s no guarantee that he’d bring success to Utd. An appointment like his is also fraught with difficulty.How is Zidane the French Ole when he won 3 straight CL titles in a row
Ole's CL record is embarrassing compared to Zidane's.
He’s competed with Klopp, Pep and Tuchel
And acquitted himself very well. Even Pep said he was a superb coach. Look where Brighton are now
Nagelsmann is an outlier. No other coaches are given jobs in their 20s and basically told, “ we’re trusting you with the club.”
Potter has had experience abroad and now PL. He will be ready come the end of the season.
I think Zidane would end our barren trophy run. He is not the long term answer. But there was something commendable in his body language at Real, even in his last season. He barely breaks a sweat and never panics. He is also a master of his feelings, and never betrays them in almost any result. Zidane has amazing self confidence, and though I don't think he is first choice to replace Ole, he would be a significant upgrade.
The thing what I don't get is that everyone knows Ole not the man to ultimately get us to where we think we should be. With this in mind, why do we let managers like Nagelsmann and Tuchell slip through the net. I mean there cant be anyone here that thinks Ole will win the league or the Champions league. I think he drops too many points unnecessarily and generally rides his luck. The next world class manager that comes up United have to pull the trigger. This dilly dally he will come good approach is mental. I love Ole but come on.
I'm of the same opinion. We don't necessarily need a coach that has won major trophies. We need a coach that has demonstrated the ability to get the best out of his players, by having his team clearly take to his attacking setup to the point where it's obvious coaching takes place. We have the players to win a major trophy. I prefer a coach that prioritizes attacking football and has balls to bring through youth.
That's the difficult part but I don't think anything at this level is easy and will be handed on a platter. Any manager in his position will have to be aware of this situation and have skill to navigate it. I strongly believe that we don't need a big CV from our next manager, we need someone on the up without the buggage of previous big jobs that have turned sour or to put us under pressure to replicate a set of circumstances he had when he won big.
We have world class players in almost every position and it isn't going too well for us this season
Agreed. The only coaches that match this description are Poch, Rose, Ten Haag, Hassenhutl, Potter. The only question is out of those guys, who can handle the pressure of managing a big club like United? Moyes while falling under the same category, failled miserably.
We don't have a midfield 3 comparable to Modric, Kroos and Casemiro though. And that's the key area of the team.
Where does this myth come from? Zidane took on an underperforming team and turned them into the juggernauts that everyone knows them today. Should I remind you that he was appointed mid season as interim manager after Real Madrid has a disastrous campaign. Nobody had any expectations of him. When he won his first CL everybody called it luck and new manager bounce.
The idea that he inherited a 2009 Barca like team is just laughable. He simply transformed the underachieving Real Madrid into one of the best CL sides ever. Same with Tuchel who turned the underachieving Chelsea side into the force they are today.
That's what WC managers do. They make average players over perform. SAF literally built a legacy at this club by doing this simple thing.
I am of the opinion that our lack of what people here like to call 'tactical nous', hampers our discussion of, well, football tactics. Our lack of knowledge on the training field and on the drawing board has helped fester the opinion that Ole will deliver if we keep trust in him. Or that Fred is the most underrated DM in the Premiership. Or that Ole is better than Nagelsmann. Or that the latter is a hipster manager... remember that?
We have not really been patient with Ole. We have been like children in their parents clothes, struggling to discuss football, struggling to silence the Ole ins because our expertise is not football. Now that Ole has had a dire start to the season, we can point out what our eyes and our gut have been telling us so urgently ; that Ole is not up to it. Oh I have no doubt that better times will soon dull our senses again and that fans will Unite in the face of victories and unbeaten runs.
We are also not helped by the so called experts in the field. Has been players and never were managers who offer 'insight' about football muddy the waters even more. The fact that they keep doing the latter is quite disheartening. Ole must go. But I predict that not only he will steady the ship, he will also gain support among the majority of the fans. This is a Man United squad that is not only at their peak, but also that is likable. I never liked Rooney, Tevez, and Vidic even when they were producing magic week in week out. I prefer Greenwood, Rashford, and Varane more. Anyway, I think it would be a pity to waste this squad with rudderless management. Hope we win the next match.
We have not really been patient with Ole. We have been like children in their parents clothes, struggling to discuss football, struggling to silence the Ole ins because our expertise is not football. Now that Ole has had a dire start to the season, we can point out what our eyes and our gut have been telling us so urgently ; that Ole is not up to it. Oh I have no doubt that better times will soon dull our senses again and that fans will Unite in the face of victories and unbeaten runs.
We are also not helped by the so called experts in the field. Has been players and never were managers who offer 'insight' about football muddy the waters even more. The fact that they keep doing the latter is quite disheartening. Ole must go. But I predict that not only he will steady the ship, he will also gain support among the majority of the fans. This is a Man United squad that is not only at their peak, but also that is likable. I never liked Rooney, Tevez, and Vidic even when they were producing magic week in week out. I prefer Greenwood, Rashford, and Varane more. Anyway, I think it would be a pity to waste this squad with rudderless management. Hope we win the next match.
Agree with this.
True. Even with that being the case though, we shouldn't be losing the games we've lost this season. We've even been very fortunate in some of the games we've won - things aren't clicking on a very basic level this season.
Rodgers is a better coach than Ole but he's also an absolute cringe monster, his interviews are nauseating and he managed Liverpool, so feck that idea. Brighton are a team I enjoy watching but I genuinely think the United job would be too big of a leap for him at this point. Zidane apparently doesn't want to come? Okay, I actually like the Ajax manager, he's shown his capability in the CL, uses young players and plays good football from this century.
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The more I think about it the more o think Conte is not the right fit. He’d want an overhaul of players and probably wipe out some of the progress that we’ve done when he leaves (and he will)
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