Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch

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romufc

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But you mentioned CL expectations, surely you realize that being wealthier means that you have a better ability to keep players and that you a larger pool of players to take from and in this case it includes Tottenham purchasing Ajax players such as Eriksen.

If we take the CL as a barometer where both teams are in competition Tottenham are higher in the pecking order than Ajax for the simple reason that one is wealthier than the other. One can purchase better, more expensive players than the other.
Yep, you also have to realise Ajax are a club where all the best youngsters in Holland want to go to and play as a stepping stone, they can attract the best young players. Can Spurs do that in the PL? No, which means they have to go out and buy them, being in the PL gives them the wealth to be able to do so.

Well, like I said, I am not opposed to either taking over, both have risks, with Poch he has slight advantage for me because he has worked in the PL.
 

AnotherOne92

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Spurs fan here, just my two cents: Pochettino is the perfect manager for you out of the ones available and I think he'll work wonders if appointed.

For those who dismiss him because he hasn't won anything (or because he'll only win a farmer's league with PSG) I think you're missing a trick by buying into a narrative that completely ignores the context of the situation.

Before he arrived we'd qualified for the Champions League once since the 1950's, but he took us to four Champions League finishes in five years and our first two genuine title challenges since 1987. In the meantime, we played the best football we've ever seen at Spurs in the PL - and some of the best in the league full stop - with the best attack and defense in the league over the course of 15/16 and 16/17, all while blooding the youth and emphasising a British/English core, similar to United. While I accept he didn't get over the line when it mattered, I don't think people truly appreciate how he did what he did; he succeeded at Spurs in spite of the club, not because of it.

Across 5.5 years, the only players we signed of genuine quality were Wanyama, Alderweireld, Alli, Son and maybe Trippier - five players in five years. A small part of that is Poch's fault (players like Janssen and Foyth were his signings) but he always asked for players and the club went for the cheaper option. Whether it was Martial, Schneiderlin, Mussachio, Ings or Grealish, Poch was instead rewarded with N'Jie, N'Koudou, Stambouli, Fazio, and so many other mediocrities - this was a pattern that repeated itself almost every window. Our net spend was not only by far the lowest among the top six throughout his reign, it was even lower than teams like Stoke and West Brom... they both got relegated during that period. We didn't spend top six money, top eight money, or even top ten money - he achieved consistent top four finishes with a bottom half of the table budget.

Compared to the top six, we also have/had a significantly lower wage bill (eg nearly half of that of City's - 170m per year vs 350m). We became the first club to ever go through a summer transfer window without signing a single player (and nobody in the January after) and to top it all off, we spent nearly two full seasons away from home at Wembley - take Liverpool away from Anfield for a couple of years and tell me they still win the Champions League or the Premier League.

I really can't overstate just how little and how poorly he was backed, and while moving to Wembley was bad timing more so the fault of Levy, Poch still had to deal with it. It's why our fans love him and rave about him as much as we do, and why many of us are still seething at Levy. Poch achieved regular Champions League appearances at a club where that had literally never happened; got us as close to winning something that mattered in over half a century; played some of the best football in the league; and he did it with not just two hands tied behind his back, but both his legs and a blindfold on as well.

In terms of negatives, he's similar to Bielsa in that he's very stubborn and too much of a romantic. He's usually late to make substitutions and has almost too much faith in his players. Also, while he's a good manager tactically, he's not at the level of a Pep or a Klopp, though maybe he can improve here given time. And, yes, he didn't win anything with us. We should have gotten over the line in at least one domestic cup competition, but that failure isn't enough to overwrite all of the good that he did; it's a disingenuous criticism that completely ignores the context of the state of the club he took over, the money he didn't have to spend, and the lack of a home ground for two years.

While we're all delighted we have Conte (who is a better coach) Poch is the one we want to see back eventually. He's an outstanding coach and if he does go to United, I don't think we'll see him at Spurs again.
 
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Pscholes18

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So Uniteds post Sir Alex average is:
Arsenal - 1.31 (16)
Chelsea - 1.25 (16)
Liverpool - 1.24 (17)
City - 1.24 (17)
Spurs - 1.59 (17)

Trying to take something from this.. Pochettino was not good at playing against Liverpool, City and United, decent enough against Arsenal, average against Chelsea. Just more "meh" to me. On average he had a worse record in big games than United did post Sir Alex, which hasn't exactly been an inspiring time for the club. Spurs' average level during Pochettinos time was definitely higher than Uniteds average level post Sir Alex. So essentially, worse big game results despite a better situation. Goes a long way to explaining never winning a trophy here.
His record against Klopp and Pep is abysmal.
 

JPRouve

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Yep, you also have to realise Ajax are a club where all the best youngsters in Holland want to go to and play as a stepping stone, they can attract the best young players. Can Spurs do that in the PL? No, which means they have to go out and buy them, being in the PL gives them the wealth to be able to do so.

Well, like I said, I am not opposed to either taking over, both have risks, with Poch he has slight advantage for me because he has worked in the PL.
You are stretching very far now.
 

romufc

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I made my point about Poch time being pointless. You even see to that, but pretend not to...

Straw lurching at its finest. Not being a Spurs fan, doesn't mean you can have opinion on their team. Also being a Spurs fan balled deep in romanticism, doesn't make that opinion right. If you can only opinionize about your team, why are you discussing managers of other clubs right now? So your opinion is also useless air?

It's Okay to agree to disagree. Let's not pretend to run away from what you implied about Simeone inherited a better Atletico than what Poch inherited at Spurs.
No, I implied that Athletico did win things before Simeone.

Its quite weird thinking that because the manager doesn't win a trophy, its a pointless time, this is not the case, just ask fans from clubs that don't win trophies, they remember a manager who gets them playing well and competitive.

I guess you'd call Moyes time pointless if they dont win the league, CL, or a cup then.
 

USREDEVIL

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If Poch comes, he'll have managed both Messi and Ronaldo. Nobody else can say that right? Interesting Jeopardy question if nothing else.

For those saying he's never won anything; i'm not concerned. It's just one of those hurdles that you need to get past. Even Brendon Rodgers did. Just need a little luck and some momentum with a team like ours and we'll have trophies for sure.
 

Jezpeza

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Truly delusional. Every manager dream is to win the world cup with their national team. If Mancini is given a choice to win a WC with Italy or UCL and PL double with United he will 100% choose Italy. Nobody will give a feck if he won with United unless it is United fans and if he won the WC with Italy he will be remembered forever.
think you are over romanticising national football. No one cares much about it anymore.

For example, people ‘caring’ about the national team here is usually people who dont follow football flocking to the pub to drink shots, sing ten german bombers and talk amongst themselves in every game we get at a tournament. Dont recall any top managers leaving club teams for national teams or turning down club offers to stay at one in a very long time
 

roonster09

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Simeone? It's not very high, they tend to sell a lot.
I mean Poch. You said set spend is misleading (i agree with that and in general I don't agree with net spend concept as managers rarely lose key players, it's the poor ones or young players they lose), I remember reading his actual gross spend was low too. Might be wrong too btw.
 

Jackal981

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think you are over romanticising national football. No one cares much about it anymore.

For example, people ‘caring’ about the national team here is usually people who dont follow football flocking to the pub to drink shots, sing ten german bombers and talk amongst themselves in every game we get at a tournament. Dont recall any top managers leaving club teams for national teams or turning down club offers to stay at one in a very long time
Ask 100 player if they would rather win a world cup with their national team or win the UCL with their club and 100 of them will choose the former.
 

the_cliff

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But you mentioned CL expectations, surely you realize that being wealthier means that you have a better ability to keep players and that you a larger pool of players to take from and in this case it includes Tottenham purchasing Ajax players such as Eriksen.

If we take the CL as a barometer where both teams are in competition Tottenham are higher in the pecking order than Ajax for the simple reason that one is wealthier than the other. One can purchase better, more expensive players than the other.
Pochs net spend from 2014-2019 was 90m which in itself is a low amount.

Ajaxs net spend during the same time was 65 m. 65 m in profit. The season after 2019/2020 they made 160 m profit in transfers.

The job Ten Hag has done at Ajax is nothing short of incredible. Having a good academy has helped but overall he's one of the best managers in the world.
 

thegregster

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His record against Klopp and Pep is abysmal.
His record v Klopp was good. He smashed them 4-1 at home in 2017/18.

Then Klopp got to spend around 180mil on a goalie,CB and DM. Poch was always going to struggle to get Spurs up to the top when others around him were spending such large amounts. Ironically Spurs have spent a decent amount since he left. Talk about bad timing.

I don't think any manager could have done any better at Spurs than he did. Still it's one thing to do such a good job at Spurs. It another to do it at United.
 

DWelbz19

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Thats he's willing to walk away from PSG immediately speaks volumes as to how attractive the position is.
Yep. 3 years of mediocrity with little flack, all whilst being one of the most paid managers on the planet? Sign me up if Poch doesn’t want it
 

Bale Bale Bale

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What about the final against Liverpool?
I don't have it but you're welcome to find it.

Spurs had 65% possession in the final with 16 attempts to 14 and 8 on target to 3. That said, we barely created a meaningful chance and deservedly lost. Conceding a penalty 20 seconds into the biggest game in our history certainly didn't help though, if I could erase one moment from football history it would be that.
 

JPRouve

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I mean Poch. You said set spend is misleading (i agree with that and in general I don't agree with net spend concept as managers rarely lose key players, it's the poor ones or young players they lose), I remember reading his actual gross spend was low too. Might be wrong too btw.
The gross spend are at 472m€ under Pochettino during six summers, in comparison during Simeone first six summers Atletico spent 466m€ if I'm not mistaken.
 

horsechoker

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Is anyone worried about PSG taking revenge for stealing Poch?

They bought Neymar as revenge for Barca knocking them out of the CL. Maybe they'll buy Greenwood for £200m
 

JPRouve

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Pochs net spend from 2014-2019 was 90m which in itself is a low amount.

Ajaxs net spend during the same time was 65 m. 65 m in profit. The season after 2019/2020 they made 160 m profit in transfers.

The job Ten Hag has done at Ajax is nothing short of incredible. Having a good academy has helped but overall he's one of the best managers in the world.
And funnily enough anyone making the argument that Ajax were the ones in a strong position should remember where Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Eriksen came from which club lost them.
 

2 man midfield

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Looks like we’ve settled on Poch then, only about 3 years too late. He’s not Brendan Rodgers so he gets my vote.
 

JPRouve

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Is anyone worried about PSG taking revenge for stealing Poch?

They bought Neymar as revenge for Barca knocking them out of the CL. Maybe they'll buy Greenwood for £200m
They didn't buy Neymar as a revenge, they were trying to purchase Neymar for a while but Barcelona weren't interested.
 

Offside

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“Record Sports understands there is a belief Carrick may be able to successfully operate as a caretaker until the summer if necessary.” :lol: feck off
 

Red the Bear

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Is anyone worried about PSG taking revenge for stealing Poch?

They bought Neymar as revenge for Barca knocking them out of the CL. Maybe they'll buy Greenwood for £200m
Thankfully we can't be strong handed the way barca were

And also if anything were at least competent in a financial level
 

Maluco

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For all the talk of Poch’s limitations, there is some serious overrating of the players he had at Spurs.

Make no mistake about it, Varane, Shaw, Pogba, Sancho, Rashford, Ronaldo, Bruno Cavani, Greenwood are all levels above the players he made look excellent at Spurs.

The arguments about better teams getting the better of Spurs means less when there will be so few teams with less talent at their disposal than we have. He still managed to get the better of teams with far more resources in important games.

I am excited.
 

ti vu

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No, I implied that Athletico did win things before Simeone.

Its quite weird thinking that because the manager doesn't win a trophy, its a pointless time, this is not the case, just ask fans from clubs that don't win trophies, they remember a manager who gets them playing well and competitive.

I guess you'd call Moyes time pointless if they dont win the league, CL, or a cup then.
Having some/ many good memory is what belongs to romanticism. Even victim to crime can develop Stockholm syndrome, growing attachment to the people that harm them. It's human nature.

Pointless here explained is about football legacy. Spurs position is the same on both end of Poch time. They don't do Poch ball after he left (it already fall apart in at the end of his time there). They still have to overcome the mental block of a trophyless team. Spurs academy for all the hype during Poch time turned out to be all hype, with no substance.

Poch was the one who benefits most from his time at Spurs. However, for Spurs, the benefit is short lived. They're back to square one in the building block.
 
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Dan_F

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I’m not really sure how relevant low points per game totals against the likes of City and Chelsea are when you’re Spurs manager. I’d always be massively disappointed to drop points to Spurs, he got them punching above their weight. You’d also expect that to increase with a better quality of player and more money to spend here.

Ten Hag is clearly a fantastic tactician, but surely there’s as many doubts about his ability to transfer that into our structure and situation, in a top league, as there is about Poch’s PPG.

This is why the club needs some form of strategy in place. Ten Hag would require a decent size rebuild and time to implement it. I wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up with a year out of the Champions League to try and implement that kind of style here. Poch is far more likely to take what we have and do well with it, if maybe a lower ceiling in the long term.
 

Pscholes18

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We take Poch now, kiss TH goodbye. He'll he somewhere else by the time we start looking again...better hope it's not Citeh.
 

Amadaeus

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Spurs fan here, just my two cents: Pochettino is the perfect manager for you out of the ones available and I think he'll work wonders if appointed.

For those who dismiss him because he hasn't won anything (or because he'll only win a farmer's league with PSG) I think you're missing a trick by buying into a narrative that completely ignores the context of the situation.

Before he arrived we'd qualified for the Champions League once since the 1950's, but he took us to four Champions League finishes in five years and our first two genuine title challenges since 1987. In the meantime, we played the best football we've ever seen at Spurs in the PL - and some of the best in the league full stop - with the best attack and defense in the league over the course of 15/16 and 16/17, all while blooding the youth and emphasising a British/English core, similar to United. While I accept he didn't get over the line when it mattered, I don't think people truly appreciate how he did what he did; he succeeded at Spurs in spite of the club, not because of it.

Across 5.5 years, the only players we signed of genuine quality were Wanyama, Alderweireld, Alli, Son and maybe Trippier - five players in five years. A small part of that is Poch's fault (players like Janssen and Foyth were his signings) but he always asked for players and the club went for the cheaper option. Whether it was Martial, Schneiderlin, Mussachio, Ings or Grealish, Poch was instead rewarded with N'Jie, N'Koudou, Stambouli, Fazio, and so many other mediocrities - this was a pattern that repeated itself almost every window. Our net spend was not only by far the lowest among the top six throughout his reign, it was even lower than teams like Stoke and West Brom... they both got relegated during that period. We didn't spend top six money, top eight money, or even top ten money - he achieved consistent top four finishes with a bottom half of the table budget.

Compared to the top six, we also have/had a significantly lower wage bill (eg nearly half of that of City's - 170m per year vs 350m). We became the first club to ever go through a summer transfer window without signing a single player (and nobody in the January after) and to top it all off, we spent nearly two full seasons away from home at Wembley - take Liverpool away from Anfield for a couple of years and tell me they still win the Champions League or the Premier League.

I really can't overstate just how little and how poorly he was backed, and while moving to Wembley was bad timing more so the fault of Levy, Poch still had to deal with it. It's why our fans love him and rave about him as much as we do, and why many of us are still seething at Levy. Poch achieved regular Champions League appearances at a club where that had literally never happened; got us as close to winning something that mattered in over half a century; played some of the best football in the league; and he did it with not just two hands tied behind his back, but both his legs and a blindfold on as well.

In terms of negatives, he's similar to Bielsa in that he's very stubborn and too much of a romantic. He's usually late to make substitutions and has almost too much faith in his players. Also, while he's a good manager tactically, he's not at the level of a Pep or a Klopp, though maybe he can improve here given time. And, yes, he didn't win anything with us. We should have gotten over the line in at least one domestic cup competition, but that failure isn't enough to overwrite all of the good that he did; it's a disingenuous criticism that completely ignores the context of the state of the club he took over, the money he didn't have to spend, and the lack of a home ground for two years.

While we're all delighted we have Conte (who is a better coach) Poch is the one we want to see back eventually. He's an outstanding coach and if he does go to United, I don't think we'll see him at Spurs again.
Great post. It is a good thing you mentioned the amount he spent and the lack of quality signings he was able to afford. Even pep Guardiola said that the reason he is successful is because he has a lot of money to spend. At United poch, will have a lot of money to spend and if he was able to be successful with the little he spent at spurs, then no doubt that at United, he will be a huge success.

Even at psg, you can already see how good a manager he is. So, I am glad our board is considering Pochettino and will finally get the managerial appointment right this time if he is to come here.
 

Wilt

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Is anyone worried about PSG taking revenge for stealing Poch?

They bought Neymar as revenge for Barca knocking them out of the CL. Maybe they'll buy Greenwood for £200m
Sell Greenwood, buy Haaland
 

Santoryo

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Yeah. I see the Matt Busby thing being mentioned. However, when Matt Busby became United manager the clubs were still selling players to each other. Completely different time.

People saying that may as well say they'd be happy with Rafa Benitez rocking up at Man Utd as manager.
Would you hate it if Klopp became Man United manager?
 

AltiUn

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We take Poch now, kiss TH goodbye. He'll he somewhere else by the time we start looking again...better hope it's not Citeh.
I don't want to be too "doom and gloom" but it feels like we're making a big mistake, Poch's a good manager and better than Solskjaer but he doesn't feel like the bloke who's going to win us trophies.
 

Maluco

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Spurs fan here, just my two cents: Pochettino is the perfect manager for you out of the ones available and I think he'll work wonders if appointed.

For those who dismiss him because he hasn't won anything (or because he'll only win a farmer's league with PSG) I think you're missing a trick by buying into a narrative that completely ignores the context of the situation.

Before he arrived we'd qualified for the Champions League once since the 1950's, but he took us to four Champions League finishes in five years and our first two genuine title challenges since 1987. In the meantime, we played the best football we've ever seen at Spurs in the PL - and some of the best in the league full stop - with the best attack and defense in the league over the course of 15/16 and 16/17, all while blooding the youth and emphasising a British/English core, similar to United. While I accept he didn't get over the line when it mattered, I don't think people truly appreciate how he did what he did; he succeeded at Spurs in spite of the club, not because of it.

Across 5.5 years, the only players we signed of genuine quality were Wanyama, Alderweireld, Alli, Son and maybe Trippier - five players in five years. A small part of that is Poch's fault (players like Janssen and Foyth were his signings) but he always asked for players and the club went for the cheaper option. Whether it was Martial, Schneiderlin, Mussachio, Ings or Grealish, Poch was instead rewarded with N'Jie, N'Koudou, Stambouli, Fazio, and so many other mediocrities - this was a pattern that repeated itself almost every window. Our net spend was not only by far the lowest among the top six throughout his reign, it was even lower than teams like Stoke and West Brom... they both got relegated during that period. We didn't spend top six money, top eight money, or even top ten money - he achieved consistent top four finishes with a bottom half of the table budget.

Compared to the top six, we also have/had a significantly lower wage bill (eg nearly half of that of City's - 170m per year vs 350m). We became the first club to ever go through a summer transfer window without signing a single player (and nobody in the January after) and to top it all off, we spent nearly two full seasons away from home at Wembley - take Liverpool away from Anfield for a couple of years and tell me they still win the Champions League or the Premier League.

I really can't overstate just how little and how poorly he was backed, and while moving to Wembley was bad timing more so the fault of Levy, Poch still had to deal with it. It's why our fans love him and rave about him as much as we do, and why many of us are still seething at Levy. Poch achieved regular Champions League appearances at a club where that had literally never happened; got us as close to winning something that mattered in over half a century; played some of the best football in the league; and he did it with not just two hands tied behind his back, but both his legs and a blindfold on as well.

In terms of negatives, he's similar to Bielsa in that he's very stubborn and too much of a romantic. He's usually late to make substitutions and has almost too much faith in his players. Also, while he's a good manager tactically, he's not at the level of a Pep or a Klopp, though maybe he can improve here given time. And, yes, he didn't win anything with us. We should have gotten over the line in at least one domestic cup competition, but that failure isn't enough to overwrite all of the good that he did; it's a disingenuous criticism that completely ignores the context of the state of the club he took over, the money he didn't have to spend, and the lack of a home ground for two years.

While we're all delighted we have Conte (who is a better coach) Poch is the one we want to see back eventually. He's an outstanding coach and if he does go to United, I don't think we'll see him at Spurs again.
Fantastic post. Whole seasons with Sissoko and Winks at CM and Harry Kane missing 3 months with no reliable rep and people screaming “he is a serial loser!!” because he couldn’t beat City consistently.
 

roonster09

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The gross spend are at 472m€ under Pochettino during six summers, in comparison during Simeone first six summers Atletico spent 466m€ if I'm not mistaken.
I didn't read the entire conversation, was just checking Poch's spend. Didn't know it was Poch vs Simeone.

I remember there was lot of graphic stats showing how Spurs were so low in the spending table.

Anyways IMO Simeone is better manager than Poch but Poch would be better fit than Simeone for us. Would love to see someone like Ten hag managing ManUtd.
 

croadyman

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Not exactly what we want... if we can get Pochettino asap, then I guess it's fine, we'll see what happens. If we're waiting until the end of the season for Poch, then that's just throwing away a season for a very "meh" option to come on which makes no sense.
Look his record against the big six is worryingly poor but not going to beat him with that stick before walking though the door
 

United492

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Spurs fan here, just my two cents: Pochettino is the perfect manager for you out of the ones available and I think he'll work wonders if appointed.

For those who dismiss him because he hasn't won anything (or because he'll only win a farmer's league with PSG) I think you're missing a trick by buying into a narrative that completely ignores the context of the situation.

Before he arrived we'd qualified for the Champions League once since the 1950's, but he took us to four Champions League finishes in five years and our first two genuine title challenges since 1987. In the meantime, we played the best football we've ever seen at Spurs in the PL - and some of the best in the league full stop - with the best attack and defense in the league over the course of 15/16 and 16/17, all while blooding the youth and emphasising a British/English core, similar to United. While I accept he didn't get over the line when it mattered, I don't think people truly appreciate how he did what he did; he succeeded at Spurs in spite of the club, not because of it.

Across 5.5 years, the only players we signed of genuine quality were Wanyama, Alderweireld, Alli, Son and maybe Trippier - five players in five years. A small part of that is Poch's fault (players like Janssen and Foyth were his signings) but he always asked for players and the club went for the cheaper option. Whether it was Martial, Schneiderlin, Mussachio, Ings or Grealish, Poch was instead rewarded with N'Jie, N'Koudou, Stambouli, Fazio, and so many other mediocrities - this was a pattern that repeated itself almost every window. Our net spend was not only by far the lowest among the top six throughout his reign, it was even lower than teams like Stoke and West Brom... they both got relegated during that period. We didn't spend top six money, top eight money, or even top ten money - he achieved consistent top four finishes with a bottom half of the table budget.

Compared to the top six, we also have/had a significantly lower wage bill (eg nearly half of that of City's - 170m per year vs 350m). We became the first club to ever go through a summer transfer window without signing a single player (and nobody in the January after) and to top it all off, we spent nearly two full seasons away from home at Wembley - take Liverpool away from Anfield for a couple of years and tell me they still win the Champions League or the Premier League.

I really can't overstate just how little and how poorly he was backed, and while moving to Wembley was bad timing more so the fault of Levy, Poch still had to deal with it. It's why our fans love him and rave about him as much as we do, and why many of us are still seething at Levy. Poch achieved regular Champions League appearances at a club where that had literally never happened; got us as close to winning something that mattered in over half a century; played some of the best football in the league; and he did it with not just two hands tied behind his back, but both his legs and a blindfold on as well.

In terms of negatives, he's similar to Bielsa in that he's very stubborn and too much of a romantic. He's usually late to make substitutions and has almost too much faith in his players. Also, while he's a good manager tactically, he's not at the level of a Pep or a Klopp, though maybe he can improve here given time. And, yes, he didn't win anything with us. We should have gotten over the line in at least one domestic cup competition, but that failure isn't enough to overwrite all of the good that he did; it's a disingenuous criticism that completely ignores the context of the state of the club he took over, the money he didn't have to spend, and the lack of a home ground for two years.

While we're all delighted we have Conte (who is a better coach) Poch is the one we want to see back eventually. He's an outstanding coach and if he does go to United, I don't think we'll see him at Spurs again.
Very good, informative post!
 

Lord of Blackhaven

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Poch would be a fantastic appointment but give him an 18 month contract. Then if it doesn't work out you move on quickly. This obsession with finding the next SAF is the problem. A manager shouldn't need 3 years to win something with the resources Utd have.
 
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