Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch

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Champ

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Spurs fan here, just my two cents: Pochettino is the perfect manager for you out of the ones available and I think he'll work wonders if appointed.

For those who dismiss him because he hasn't won anything (or because he'll only win a farmer's league with PSG) I think you're missing a trick by buying into a narrative that completely ignores the context of the situation.

Before he arrived we'd qualified for the Champions League once since the 1950's, but he took us to four Champions League finishes in five years and our first two genuine title challenges since 1987. In the meantime, we played the best football we've ever seen at Spurs in the PL - and some of the best in the league full stop - with the best attack and defense in the league over the course of 15/16 and 16/17, all while blooding the youth and emphasising a British/English core, similar to United. While I accept he didn't get over the line when it mattered, I don't think people truly appreciate how he did what he did; he succeeded at Spurs in spite of the club, not because of it.

Across 5.5 years, the only players we signed of genuine quality were Wanyama, Alderweireld, Alli, Son and maybe Trippier - five players in five years. A small part of that is Poch's fault (players like Janssen and Foyth were his signings) but he always asked for players and the club went for the cheaper option. Whether it was Martial, Schneiderlin, Mussachio, Ings or Grealish, Poch was instead rewarded with N'Jie, N'Koudou, Stambouli, Fazio, and so many other mediocrities - this was a pattern that repeated itself almost every window. Our net spend was not only by far the lowest among the top six throughout his reign, it was even lower than teams like Stoke and West Brom... they both got relegated during that period. We didn't spend top six money, top eight money, or even top ten money - he achieved consistent top four finishes with a bottom half of the table budget.

Compared to the top six, we also have/had a significantly lower wage bill (eg nearly half of that of City's - 170m per year vs 350m). We became the first club to ever go through a summer transfer window without signing a single player (and nobody in the January after) and to top it all off, we spent nearly two full seasons away from home at Wembley - take Liverpool away from Anfield for a couple of years and tell me they still win the Champions League or the Premier League.

I really can't overstate just how little and how poorly he was backed, and while moving to Wembley was bad timing more so the fault of Levy, Poch still had to deal with it. It's why our fans love him and rave about him as much as we do, and why many of us are still seething at Levy. Poch achieved regular Champions League appearances at a club where that had literally never happened; got us as close to winning something that mattered in over half a century; played some of the best football in the league; and he did it with not just two hands tied behind his back, but both his legs and a blindfold on as well.

In terms of negatives, he's similar to Bielsa in that he's very stubborn and too much of a romantic. He's usually late to make substitutions and has almost too much faith in his players. Also, while he's a good manager tactically, he's not at the level of a Pep or a Klopp, though maybe he can improve here given time. And, yes, he didn't win anything with us. We should have gotten over the line in at least one domestic cup competition, but that failure isn't enough to overwrite all of the good that he did; it's a disingenuous criticism that completely ignores the context of the state of the club he took over, the money he didn't have to spend, and the lack of a home ground for two years.

While we're all delighted we have Conte (who is a better coach) Poch is the one we want to see back eventually. He's an outstanding coach and if he does go to United, I don't think we'll see him at Spurs again.
You finished 4th,5th,4th,5th and 6th leading up to Poch being brought in.
Hardly a million miles away from the top.

Poch spent a ton of money, net spend is too easy a way out, he spent a lot of money on absolute dross mainly.
The fact he spent a load of money is hidden by this net spend argument. He sold Walker for just shy of £50m, the rest he sold were dross and hardly any went to a club of better stature than Spurs.

The company I worked for at the time had a box at WHL, I used to watch Pochs Spurs quite a bit, I think it's fair to say at the time Spurs fans were over the moon with Poch.

However over time those same fans have now changed their tune slightly and realised that actually Spurs should have won something, the setup was there, the players were there and the club was stable. Yet they couldn't ever get over the line.

A lot of the Spurs fans I know now look back on his tenure with a different hue, one of should have done better, rather than an overachievement.

Just my two cents on it,
 

Maluco

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Why would we sell a 3-4 year project to bring us back into contention? Ole completed the rebuild. We just need someone into win now to capitalise on the great work Ole did
And that’s not an attractive project in itself? To be the man to take that step?

If he can win a league title with United post-Ferguson, it’s far greater than anything he can do at PSG and will mean so much more.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Anyone who wouldn’t be happy with Pochettino as manager at this juncture if it actually does happen, I don’t know what to say. It would be a massive coup to pull that off and put us in fantastic shape.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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And that’s not an attractive project in itself? To be the man to take that step?

If he can win a league title with United post-Ferguson, it’s far greater than anything he can do at PSG and will mean so much more.
The question is, how much time will he be given?
 

FerociousCorgis

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Anyone who wouldn’t be happy with Pochettino as manager at this juncture if it actually does happen, I don’t know what to say. It would be a massive coup to pull that off and put us in fantastic shape.
think they would just be more of a fan of bringing in a style like ten hag from ajax. Seems like those are the two main options, doubt anyone is saying screw poch lets bring in rodgers ha
 

bosnian_red

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The question is, how much time will he be given?
Don't think there's any club in the world that gives as much time as United. If he needs more time than what United would give, he's in the wrong sport. He could probably get by for 3 years minimum just by kind of pretty football and getting top 4 even while outspending every team in the world in wages and transfer spend.
 

AnotherOne92

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You finished 4th,5th,4th,5th and 6th leading up to Poch being brought in.
Hardly a million miles away from the top.

Poch spent a ton of money, net spend is too easy a way out, he spent a lot of money on absolute dross mainly.
The fact he spent a load of money is hidden by this net spend argument. He sold Walker for just shy of £50m, the rest he sold were dross and hardly any went to a club of better stature than Spurs.

The company I worked for at the time had a box at WHL, I used to watch Pochs Spurs quite a bit, I think it's fair to say at the time Spurs fans were over the moon with Poch.

However over time those same fans have now changed their tune slightly and realised that actually Spurs should have won something, the setup was there, the players were there and the club was stable. Yet they couldn't ever get over the line.

A lot of the Spurs fans I know now look back on his tenure with a different hue, one of should have done better, rather than an overachievement.

Just my two cents on it,
Again, context matters. Our record points total in the league before Poch was 72 to finish 5th, but we got up to 86 in our best season under Poch - there was a massive improvement from what we'd seen before even if we never were a million miles away in terms of league positions. You say he spent a lot of money on dross, but that was my point in my original post, it was money on players he never wanted or asked for. All the mediocre players I already mentioned (Fazio, Stambouli, N'Jie etc) plus the likes of Aurier, Sissoko, Yedlin, Wimmer, Davies and Dier were led by our DoF at the time, which was one of the reasons that got Poch so pissed off toward the end.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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We give enough time to all managers thanks to the incompetent people running the club.
But can you really see yourselves winning the league in the next 2 years? City, Chelsea, Liverpool are stable, with City and Chelsea with good youngsters and money. Is competing gonna be enough?
 

thegregster

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You finished 4th,5th,4th,5th and 6th leading up to Poch being brought in.
Hardly a million miles away from the top.

Poch spent a ton of money, net spend is too easy a way out, he spent a lot of money on absolute dross mainly.
The fact he spent a load of money is hidden by this net spend argument. He sold Walker for just shy of £50m, the rest he sold were dross and hardly any went to a club of better stature than Spurs.

The company I worked for at the time had a box at WHL, I used to watch Pochs Spurs quite a bit, I think it's fair to say at the time Spurs fans were over the moon with Poch.

However over time those same fans have now changed their tune slightly and realised that actually Spurs should have won something, the setup was there, the players were there and the club was stable. Yet they couldn't ever get over the line.

A lot of the Spurs fans I know now look back on his tenure with a different hue, one of should have done better, rather than an overachievement.

Just my two cents on it,
He was hugely restrained by wage capacity.


It was one thing for Levy to give him funds after selling players like Walker. But he literally couldn't sign anybody on big wages because of the funding for the new stadium. It totally held him back.
 

Maluco

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The question is, how much time will he be given?
I admit that is a big question, but I imagine it will be years if he can guarantee CL qualification year on year as he did at Spurs. That will give him the opportunities Ole has had, especially is the football is better.

I am just a big fan. I had a real soft spot for the team he put together at Spurs. He was underfunded, spent well under what, at least, 6 other clubs in the league were spending and even had an 18 month period where he wasn’t allowed to bring in a single new face. He was regularly outspent by teams in the bottom half of the division.

And there he was, year on year, competing with the very best teams in Europe. While Pep was lamenting the fact that he couldn’t find a place in the team for Gundogan or Bernardo Silva, Poch was having to play Sissoko and Winks week in, week out.

To look at his squads wages, and their transfer spends year on year, and to not rate his work, is absolute madness for me.

He got the very most out of every single player for almost 5 years and improved the image of the club at home and abroad. It’s not enough to say “yeah, but he had some good players too”. Of course he did! But he was competing with teams with more money on their bench than he had in his best eleven.

It’s madness that some look at his work with you guys as “Meh”. It was a cracking job and I think he would just fit so well here.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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I admit that is a big question, but I imagine it will be years if he can guarantee CL qualification year on year as he did at Spurs.

I am just a big fan. I had a real soft spot for the team he put together at Spurs. He was underfunded, spent well under what, at least, 6 other clubs in the league were spending and even had an 18 month period where he wasn’t allowed to bring in a single new face. He was regularly outspent by teams in the bottom half of the division.

And there he was, year on year, competing with the very best teams in Europe. While Pep was lamenting the fact that he couldn’t find a place in the team for Gundogan or Bernardo Silva, Poch was having to play Sissoko and Winks week in, week out.

To look at his squads wages, and their transfer spends year on year, and to not rate his work, is absolute madness for me.

He got the very most out of every single player for almost 5 years and improved the image of the club at home and abroad. It’s not enough to say “yeah, but he had some good players too”. Of course he did! But he was competing with teams with more money on their bench than he had in his best eleven.

It’s madness that some look at his work with you guys as “Meh”. It was a cracking job and I think he would just fit so well here.
Again I love the guy, if you get him you will love him too. He puts everything into the club, I don't mean to be patronising here but expectations need to be realised. You are in the top 3 big clubs in the world on history and reputation EASILY but I think you need to give a manager like Poch time.
 

bond19821982

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But can you really see yourselves winning the league in the next 2 years? City, Chelsea, Liverpool are stable, with City and Chelsea with good youngsters and money. Is competing gonna be enough?
Our owners don't care about winning the league. Ole would still be here if we had won against Watford. Give them top 4 every year and as long money is generating via commercials, they are least bothered about winning anything.

With this Squad, if Poch can't get a top 4 then he isn't a top manager either.
 

Swedish_Plumber

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Again I love the guy, if you get him you will love him too. He puts everything into the club, I don't mean to be patronising here but expectations need to be realised. You are in the top 3 big clubs in the world on history and reputation EASILY but I think you need to give a manager like Poch time.
You’re right. With the squad we have people expect success now. So if he struggles in that capacity he might be in trouble.

I liked the guy when he was spurs manager and think he can do good things here.
 

cyberman

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But can you really see yourselves winning the league in the next 2 years? City, Chelsea, Liverpool are stable, with City and Chelsea with good youngsters and money. Is competing gonna be enough?
I can. A peoper manager vastly improved us and then it’s down to signing a Rice etc type player. We really aren’t that far off with a decent window
 

VP89

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You finished 4th,5th,4th,5th and 6th leading up to Poch being brought in.
Hardly a million miles away from the top.

Poch spent a ton of money, net spend is too easy a way out, he spent a lot of money on absolute dross mainly.
The fact he spent a load of money is hidden by this net spend argument. He sold Walker for just shy of £50m, the rest he sold were dross and hardly any went to a club of better stature than Spurs.

The company I worked for at the time had a box at WHL, I used to watch Pochs Spurs quite a bit, I think it's fair to say at the time Spurs fans were over the moon with Poch.

However over time those same fans have now changed their tune slightly and realised that actually Spurs should have won something, the setup was there, the players were there and the club was stable. Yet they couldn't ever get over the line.

A lot of the Spurs fans I know now look back on his tenure with a different hue, one of should have done better, rather than an overachievement.

Just my two cents on it,
I would love to meet these spurs fans.

Someone else has already addressed your point about spend. To say he mainly spent on dross is a very weird narrative, because he didn't.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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I would love to meet these spurs fans.

Someone else has already addressed your point about spend. To say he mainly spent on dross is a very weird narrative, because he didn't.
Sorry he did, probbaly constrained by levy but.....

27. Clinton N’Jie

26. Benjamin Stambouli

25. Vincent Janssen

24. Federico Fazio

23. Georges-Kevin Nkoudou

22. Jack Clarke

21. Tanguy Ndombele

20. Ryan Sessegnon

19. Giovani Lo Celso

18. DeAndre Yedlin

17. Serge Aurier

16. Pau Lopez

15. Michel Vorm

14. Paulo Gazzaniga

13. Kevin Wimmer

12. Juan Foyth

11. Fernando Llorente

10. Victor Wanyama

9. Moussa Sissoko

8. Davinson Sanchez

7. Lucas Moura

6. Ben Davies

5. Kieran Trippier

4. Eric Dier

3. Toby Alderweireld

2. Dele Alli

1. Son Heung-min


Id classify 4-5 as a success..... ish.
 

V.O.

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Sorry he did, probbaly constrained by levy but.....
Christ, that's grim reading. You'd only have Son as an unqualified success out of that lot, with a couple more good or decent signings and a whole pile of dross.
 

JPRouve

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But can you really see yourselves winning the league in the next 2 years? City, Chelsea, Liverpool are stable, with City and Chelsea with good youngsters and money. Is competing gonna be enough?
If Pochettino takes Woodward/Arnold to Wing's every week, he will have a job for life. That's the United way.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Christ, that's grim reading. You'd only have Son as an unqualified success out of that lot, with a couple more good or decent signings and a whole pile of dross.
Again hamstringed by Levy apart from Ndombelle and GLC, Son and Toby the best, Ali for a stint, Dier and Davies I have a soft spot for and Sanches has it all technically but his concentration is shocking. Bruno was all but done who was his choice too but Levy couldn't help himself.
 

#07

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Would you hate it if Klopp became Man United manager?
Yes.

I don't understand how someone who has so completely embraced their Y N W A culture would be acceptable to you. He rang Sir Alex in the middle of the night to celebrate Liverpool's first title in 30 years. Why's he getting a pensioner up at night to celebrate in drunken Scouse? Nah. Not for me.
 

croadyman

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Again I love the guy, if you get him you will love him too. He puts everything into the club, I don't mean to be patronising here but expectations need to be realised. You are in the top 3 big clubs in the world on history and reputation EASILY but I think you need to give a manager like Poch time.
Should we be overly concerned about his record against the top six in the league, also how would you describe his style of football as have seen some of our fans suggest it's more functional than the easy on the eye stuff from Ten Hag
 

OverratedOpinion

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Yes.

I don't understand how someone who has so completely embraced their Y N W A culture would be acceptable to you. He rang Sir Alex in the middle of the night to celebrate Liverpool's first title in 30 years. Why's he getting a pensioner up at night to celebrate in drunken Scouse? Nah. Not for me.
To be fair he responded to a text message Sir Alex sent congratulating them to say thank you.

A bit of a faux pas to reply so late but you make it sound like he drunkenly called him screaming Y N W A down the phone.
 

Champ

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He was hugely restrained by wage capacity.


It was one thing for Levy to give him funds after selling players like Walker. But he literally couldn't sign anybody on big wages because of the funding for the new stadium. It totally held him back.
What's that got to do with spending a huge amount of money??
He spent a lot of money, the players he sold more often than not went to a club of a lower standard than Spurs, suggesting he sold players he didn't need, rather than players he was forced to sell.
 

Champ

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I would love to meet these spurs fans.

Someone else has already addressed your point about spend. To say he mainly spent on dross is a very weird narrative, because he didn't.
He did, a huge amount of the signings were pretty average.
 

roonster09

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Looks like even Marca joined in now, said Zidane to PSG and Poch to Manutd.

Too much smoke now, hiring him means we won't get ten hag who might end up at other club.
 

JPRouve

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Looks like even Marca joined in now, said Zidane to PSG and Poch to Manutd.

Too much smoke now, hiring him means we won't get ten hag who might end up at other club.
Marca are speculating, the article is a bit weird, a mix of all rumours that are doing the round.
 

ti vu

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I can’t agree with most of that to be honest. He still had them performing without Walker and he isn’t as good a footballer as Shaw at his very best. Our players are being judged under poor coaching, while theirs are being judged under a top coach and a proper system.

Bruno has already proven he can far exceed Eriksons output over a calendar year. And players like Rose, Dier, Alli were functional in the correct system. That is the key. It’s not fair to our players.

Our players have been forced into defensive static blocks under Mourinho, and then to pure chaos under Ole and his novice coaches for 3 years.

Son, Kane, and possibly Eriksen and Walker I will give you, but we have an embarrassment or riches otherwise, and so many players that just haven’t been used to their abilities or coached properly while wearing a United shirt.

The ability is there and it far outweighs what he had at Tottenham. Not to mention who he may bring in to midfield etc…. He will have a budget and the chance to make changes to an already better squad.

It’s not even close talent wise and it shows the disservice that the board and Ole has done to our players.
Let's agree to disagree here.

Bad coaches like LVG and Mourinho may have their short coming, but they wouldn't have won as much as they did if they couldn't know how to coach the basic as you implied.

Kyle Walker was already a player before his time with Poch then Pep. He won young players of the year, made PL XI team before Poch time. Kyle Walker enduring Sir Gareth tactical tinkering longer in less ideal position than Shaw. It's not like smooth sailing for Walker all the way in his career.

Shaw until last season, was unproductive and couldn't cross. LVG had to subject Shaw to special training in taking on opposition defender since he used to be lacking, where as Walker is naturally comfortable even when he was young on loan to other clubs. Walker trumped in term of athleticism despite Shaw has also the speed and body strength. So nothing to do with coaching here, but player individual quality.

You clearly made a big mistake judging Eriksen and Bruno purely based on direct goal related contribution. Bruno took penalty and scored 9 last season (in the league alone). Being our main man and attacker with full freedom to express himself. Eriksen was not only utilized as play maker, attacker, he's also tasked as conductor of team play. Evidently his superiority passing complete and number of passes stats. He's seen to drop deep to control midfield, and dictate tempo, yet he didn't lacking in meeting expected number for a play maker with assists and key passes. For an attacker, Bruno assist stat is not that impressive. Harry Kane bettered Bruno in both goal and assist last season, despite playing for another poor coach (Mourinho) and a rookie of manager (Ryan Mason) if you want a closer comparison in term of player role (attacker, penalty taker and main man).

Rose and Alli eventually stopped being functional even under Poch for one reason or another. You're expecting miracle if you think Poch can just do magic on any unmotivated players. Poch bought NDombele himself, and brought that trouble of unmotivated player on himself and now Spurs having to deal with it.

Riches, hype, natural talent comes with higher expectation, and ego. Poch hasn't proven in that regard. If he jumps ship from PSG mid season, it's more alarming to said ego management than Tuchel situation here.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Should we be overly concerned about his record against the top six in the league, also how would you describe his style of football as have seen some of our fans suggest it's more functional than the easy on the eye stuff from Ten Hag
He is a possession based manager first and foremost, I remember when he was signed his first half season was not that much different to AVB, crab football, side to side and back then he did push on. He developed our best time, Walker and Rose changing from full backs to wing backs and Dier dropping into defence. Your term functional is probably his default but when he gets things right we were very dynamic. As for the top 6, yeah we always did come up a bit sort, but we always seemed to when it mattered, Spursy is the term.
 

roonster09

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Marca are speculating, the article is a bit weird, a mix of all rumours that are doing the round.
Yeah that's true. They said PSG dressing room thinks Zidane is close. Looks like everyone is throwing in their opinion piece.
 

ti vu

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Sorry he did, probbaly constrained by levy but.....

27. Clinton N’Jie

26. Benjamin Stambouli

25. Vincent Janssen

24. Federico Fazio

23. Georges-Kevin Nkoudou

22. Jack Clarke

21. Tanguy Ndombele

20. Ryan Sessegnon

19. Giovani Lo Celso

18. DeAndre Yedlin

17. Serge Aurier

16. Pau Lopez

15. Michel Vorm

14. Paulo Gazzaniga

13. Kevin Wimmer

12. Juan Foyth

11. Fernando Llorente

10. Victor Wanyama

9. Moussa Sissoko

8. Davinson Sanchez

7. Lucas Moura

6. Ben Davies

5. Kieran Trippier

4. Eric Dier

3. Toby Alderweireld

2. Dele Alli

1. Son Heung-min


Id classify 4-5 as a success..... ish.
Am I wrong if I say most of the supposed success signings happened during Poch time as head coach, where Spurs had recruitment team working independent to Poch, with someone like Paul Mitchell? I read some time during Poch time, he got himself promoted into manager having more power in transfer activity, and there was a shuffle of structure at Spurs, which saw Mitchell leaving having less influence at the club.
 

bosnian_red

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My prediction:
  1. City comfortably beats PSG this week
  2. The PSG board and fans are furious, combined with the United interest they decide to let Poch leave for United with United paying some sort of compensation.
  3. PSG then goes in for Zidane with the provision of being allowed to leave for the France national team job.
 

JPRouve

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Yeah that's true. They said PSG dressing room thinks Zidane is close. Looks like everyone is throwing in their opinion piece.
They are not even pretending the title of the article is a question and a provocative suggestion, they then ask readers if they believe that it's possible to see Pochettino at United and Zidane at Paris.
 

devilish

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My dream team would be Rangnick now to stir the ship and Ten Hag later (with Rangnick promoted to a sort of football CEO role). Thus we would have a sly old fox cleaning the mess Mates FC had left only for Ten Hag to join the club and grow under the German's wing just as so many other managers did (Tuchel, Nagelsmann etc). Unfortunately that won't be happening anytime soon.

Under such circumstances I'd rather have Pochs then Ten Hag. The reason being

a- Pochs comes with his entourage of coaches. That means that most of Mates FC will be shown the door
b- Pochs knows what a toxic club is, having worked with both PSG and Spurs. He won't be easily intimidated by Woodward. Ten Hag had always worked at a well drilled club. There's every chance that he would be duped to keep mates FC thanks to a quiet word from SAF and VDS.
c- Pochs knows the EPL very well. He knows the opposition and what to expect in it. Dutch managers tend to be purists which means that they will stick to their 'philosophy' till the very end. That can lead to some spectacular failures (LVG, Koeman, De Boer).
 

thegregster

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What's that got to do with spending a huge amount of money??
He spent a lot of money, the players he sold more often than not went to a club of a lower standard than Spurs, suggesting he sold players he didn't need, rather than players he was forced to sell.
He didn't spent huge amounts of money relative to City,Liverpool,United.
His CL final team cost feck all.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...-XI-costs-whopping-202MILLION-Tottenhams.html

What could he have done if Levy said here is another 200mil and our wage capacity will be up around the top end of the PL? That for me is the big question. I'm fine with us taking that gamble although I'd prefer Ten Hag.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
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They are not even pretending the title of the article is a question and a provocative suggestion, they then ask readers if they believe that it's possible to see Pochettino at United and Zidane at Paris.
They added this in the article, looks like for opinion piece they have spiced it up a bit.

There is an idea in the Paris Saint-Germain dressing room, as MARCA have learned, that Zidane's arrival is imminent in Paris. His name has even been brought up during conversations among players. They know what's going on at the club and they are sensing that something could now happen.
 
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