The 4-4-2 Draft - R1 - Earvin vs Isotope/Himannv

Who will win the match?


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Pat_Mustard

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EARVIN:



ISOTOPE/HIMANNV:



TEAM EARVIN:

INTRODUCTION:

Hi everyone, this is a writeup to present the strength of the team I assembled. The objective of this team is going to maintain possession and create the maximum number of scoring occasion out of it since this strategy is unanimously regarded as one of (if not the most) effective in football and I believe this team has the players to carry this task. This is how I envision the team’s organization when attacking.





Starting from a 4-4-2 shape, the team will be shifting to a 2-3-2-3, with Iniesta drifting inside, Alba moving up the pitch and Trent Alexander Arnold joining up the midfield as an inverted fullback. I took inspiration from Manchester City’s most recent season which saw them start games in a 4-4-2 before shifting to a 2-3-2-3 while attacking, as in this disposition, they can ensure that they have a constant numerical superiority in the midfield while maintaining a good defensive balance. This write-up is going to be composed of 8 sections (yes, I know that’s a lot). The first 6 sections are going to cover the different roles of the team and the strength of the players fulfilling those roles. These are advanced playmakers (a.k.a the players in the Half spaces), Wing play, Striker, Midfield, Factor X, and defense. The last two sections are going to cover the potential criticism that this team might receive and a conclusion which will summarize everything that has been said, if you do not want to read everything I suggest going straight to that part.



Advanced playmakers:



Iniesta
will not operate as a classic winger but will drift inside to occupy the left Half space, it’s a role he already played most notably with Spain in 2012 where he started as a left winger on the team sheet but operated more like a wide playmaker or an advanced 8. This performance got him the title of best player of the tournament and was instrumental in him being named UEFA player of the year that season (Finished in front of Messi’s 73 goals season). His creative dribbles and passing will be instrumental in breaking down opponent’s lines and defense, and I believe he is one of the very best players I could’ve get to fulfill that role.

The right Half space will be occupied by Italian artist Francesco Totti, while he does not have Andres Iniesta’s close control, he is himself one of the most creative passers of the last 30 years and can add a credible secondary goalscoring threat.



Wing play:



On the wings I have 2 different profiles with Ribery and Alba. Deployed on the right wing is Franck Ribery, which can seem like an odd choice since he played his best years as a left winger in Bayern Munich, however he has no problem playing as a right winger as he proved by putting up a solid performance during the 2006 WC with France in that position even netting a beautiful goal against Spain. Indeed, his playstyle was always closer to one of a traditional winger compared to his teammate Arjen Robben who operated as an inside Forward. He was always more of a playmaker than a goal scorer. He used to cut outside quite often even if it meant putting him on his weak foot to shoot/cross. I believe that by putting him on the right wing, we might rip even more benefits from his playmaking since it will enable him to playmake using his right foot.


His role is going to be to play the 1 v 1 against the opponent fullback, wreaking havoc on the wing and creating from there. Considering that at his peak he used to register more than 5 dribbles, and 3 chances created per 90, it is fair to say that he is one of the very best who could fulfill that role. (Since the data is collected, only Lionel Messi was able to put up similar numbers, even playmakers such as Eden Hazard fall short by a distance). He can also use his pace to receive through balls provided by the teams playmakers, which adds a touch of versatility to his already dangerous profile. His quick passing and combinations with Totti will also be something to look up to since it could easily collapse the defensive structure of the opponent’s team.

Thus, I believe this team possess a ballon d’or level threat on its right wing.

On the left wing, Alba will stretch the opposition’s defense. His runs will be a dangerous outlet for the team’s playmakers. He provides directness, in a team that overall relies on quick passing and penetrative dribbles to create an advantage. The objective of picking him was also to recreate his partnership with Iniesta on the left wing which led Spain to European glory in 2012.



Striker:



The striker of this team is Robert Lewandowski. I am using his most recent version, the one that is banging goals left and right (2019 onwards). Having him feels like cheating since I believe he was the best striker available. In the 2020/21 season, he had a better goal scored per 90 minutes ratio than Cristiano Ronaldo ever managed to reach in his career(1.5 gp90 to 1.39 gp90). This is a testament to his otherworldly finishing ability, so with him on the team I expect that most chances are going to end up in a goal scored. More than goalscoring, he also provides an interesting tactical option thanks to his back to the goal game and hold up play. He is also a good passer who will have no problems adapting to the possession heavy style of the team.




Midfield play:



The midfield is composed of two world class players in Claude Makelele and Andrea Pirlo.

Pirlo has perhaps the most important role in this team. He is the Regista organizing the play from deep and progressing the ball to the forwards. In terms of ability, I believe that he is the best passer of the last 30 years alongside Xavi. As a Barcelona fan, he is the only player for which I’m confident that replacing Xavi with him wouldn’t lead to a significant drop in performance of the Pep team. I think Xavi is better in terms of ball retention and progressive carries, while Pirlo might be a tad better on long balls. Of course, Xavi is greater since he was the heart of the Pep team and the Spanish national which were way more dominant than any team Pirlo was part of, but in terms of pure ability I see them as pretty close.

The other midfielder is Claude Makelele whose Job will be to carry on the defensive duties in the midfield. His quickness and agility made him one of the very best in that domain and he was the backbone of one of the greatest defensive team of modern history (Chelsea 2004-06). His presence in the team provides defensive stability. He is also good enough technically to contribute to the possession heavy playstyle of the team through his ball retention and close control (He started his career as a winger and his technical ability was always apparent even when playing as a DM).

I believe this is the best pair I could get since it provides a good defensive security in the midfield (Pirlo himself was not a liability on the defensive end) and provides the perfect setting for a possession heavy play thanks to the technical ability of Pirlo.



Factor X:




One of the key factors to maintain possession, is to create numerical superiority in the midfield. This is why I chose Trent Alexander Arnold as a right back so that he can drift inside and create that numerical superiority. Iniesta can also drop back if needed to provide an additional option.

I think that the choice of TAA as a right back can be seen as controversial since he is very young and perhaps not everyone in here have realized yet just how insanely good he is. It’s simple, he is on track to be one of the very best if the not the very best right back ever. This is partly due to the evolution of the modern game which allowed fullbacks to take on a bigger responsibility thanks to the inverted fullback role. Him and Cancelo are two of the best Premier league playmakers nowadays, but I consider Trent to be the better player, so picked him over the Portuguese.

Trent is in his own league when it comes to create danger from passing, he ranked third in 2021 in terms of expected assists in the top 5 leagues and first in progressive passes even besting Lionel Fecking Messi in that domain. He is also first in xT* created in the top 5 leagues this season by a wide margin.

This dude is a right back and is more productive in terms of playmaking than any other midfielder, winger or forward in the top 5 leagues of Europe. That is an insane feat in itself, and I don’t know if any other right back in the history of football can boast about accomplishing such a feat. I’m confident that in a few years, and if injuries leave him alone, he will be regarded as one of the greatest at his position.

Here are the sources to the claims that I made in this section about TAA abilities:




Source of these tweets are the websites FBREF and soccerment.



xT*: It’s a metric that is still not mainstream, so I’ll provide a quick explanation for those who are not familiar with it. Basically, it gives a value to each area of the pitch. The more dangerous actions can be created from that area, the higher its value will be. The players who move the ball to the most dangerous area of the pitch tend to get the highest xT score. It is a nice tool to value playmaking without necessary looking at just the ability to do the final pass since that’s what the current metrics like xA and chance created consider.

Here is an interesting article if you want to read more about it. https://karun.in/blog/expected-threat.html



So now, that we’ve established how much of an offensive powerhouse, we’ll talk about his defensive aspect of the game, since he has the reputation of being a weak defender and while that might have been true in his younger days, since 2020 he made a big improvement in that domain and is now elite in that regard.


Here is a visual representation of his talent.


The pass around the 3:00 time stamp is absolutely ridiculous.

Thus, in the team, he will work as a deep lying playmaker, a role not different from the one he occupies in Liverpool. With him and Pirlo, that is two extremely creative players operating from deep which amplifies the creative ceiling of the team to absurd levels.



Defense:




The center back pair is formed by Ronald Koeman and Raphael Varane.

Koeman is one of the best defenders of all time, he will be a challenge to overcome for the opponent’s team forwards, while also enabling the team to build from the back thanks to his passing abilities. He is also the free kick taker of the team and considering that he scored 60 of them during his career (8 most all time) I expect that all free kicks will lead to a potentially dangerous situation.

Varane on the other hand might not be the flashiest name, however I chose him because his profile is what the team needs to be balanced. Indeed, he is very complete as a defender. Solid in his duels, good with his head, technically gifted enough to be press resistant and build from the back. He shined at the highest level considering that he is a World cup winner and won 4 Champions league as a starter.

His most important attribute though which led me to choose him is his speed considering that he is lightning quick, which is going to be a very important asset considering we are playing a high line, thus he will help mitigate the impact of quick opponent players wishing to go on a counterattack.

Here is a compilation showcasing Varane’s Speed. You can see that Messi, Mane and Neymar are some of his victims.






Answer to potential criticism:



Following my interactions with some members in the forum, I feel that some users hold the belief that Possession heavy side are bound to be vulnerable to counter attacking teams who will take advantage of the space behind the high line of defenders. However, I believe that using this argument to discredit this team isn’t valid and I will present two reasons for that.

Firstly, I would point that there are 3 players in this team which occupy deep positions and are very fast footballers who will have no issue whatsoever in retreating and thus slowing down an opponent counterattack. These players are TAA, Makelele and Varane

Secondly, I would like to point out that some of the best defenses of the last 15 years were achieved by possession heavy sides such as Pep’s Barça, Heynckes Bayern or more recently Pep’s Manchester City. And this was often achieved thanks to an although good but not extraordinary center back pairing ( Pique-Puyol or Boateng-Dante). That is because the team’s system is so good that it makes a better collective defense compared to having an average team but with a great center back pairing. (The Spanish national team also holds the record for the fewest goal conceded by a winner with 2 goals, and their backline was Pique-Puyol).

The intense pressing of the team and the fact that the opponent will be deprived of the ball most of the time is going to be enough in itself to ensure a great defense, while World Class defenders Koeman and Varane are only going to make it better.



Concluding thoughts/TLDR:



Here I summarize all the main points and the reasons for which I believe that this team has more chances to win the game. This team just has too many ways to hurt its opponents, it can do so through dribbles and carries thanks to Iniesta and Ribery, or by through balls and creative passing thanks to Iniesta, Totti, TAA and Pirlo (that’s a lot of playmakers, danger could come from anywhere). Pirlo and TAA function as deep lying playmakers and ensure that the ball is always progressing, so the forwards always get plenty of chances. Ribery and Alba are great outlet runners for the team’s playmakers which is yet another way for this team to hurt the opposition.

Lewandowski provides physicality and hold up play back to the goal which is yet another tool that the teams can use to break down opponent’s defense.

And the above paragraph doesn’t even include the team’s most potent weapon which is going to be quick passing to upset the opponent’s organization.

Thus, I believe that this team is a playmaking machine which will create a lot of chances each game since they possess a vast repertoire and so many tools to hurt the opposition. And with a striker as lethal as Lewandowski (and Totti as second striker), I believe that we are not going to need many chances to bang in goals. As in many possession heavy sides, the collective transcends individual qualities and makes each player even better.

On the defensive end, we maintain a high line, an intense pressing, and quick players (Makelele, Varane, TAA) able to recover in case the opposition get a counterattack. This is a recipe for a great defense as was showcased by many possession heavy sides such as Pep/Enrique’s Barça, or Heynckes Bayern.

Oh, and if the defense was to fail in containing an opponent attack, they will have this guy waiting for them in the cages. A.K.A the best goalie ever. (The Caf said it)




TEAM ISOTOPE/HIMANNV:

Formation: 4-4-2

Tactics:



The above image shows the concept of the gegenpress or the gang press. It makes use of the following pressing tactics:
  1. High defensive line - Used to reduce space for the opposition to operate in and as such make it easier to press.
  2. High press - Everyone contributes off the ball, including the front two.
  3. Counter attacking - The tactic operates off the theory that a team is in its most vulnerable state as soon as it loses possession.
  4. Hunting in packs - Attack the ball carrier aggressively with everyone in the vicinity and the others cut out all immediate passing lanes.

Team features
  • Everyone contributes in defensive workrate with the aim of winning the ball back as soon as possible and when attacking, this team is incisive and deadly.
  • Hardworking off the ball forward line in Keegan and Kempes.
  • Creative and skilful Nedved and Littbarski are both hard working off the ball and contribute both wider and centrally.
  • -----
  • Good passer Tigana and Bremner in midfield who will run all day and work very hard off the ball and on it.
  • Fullbacks who are both excellent defensively with good defensive workrate, and good attacking options to provide width when needed.
  • Argentinian CBs who know each other well and are both as tough as they come and good in the air. There is top tier quality on the ball from Passerella in particular if we need to play it out.
  • -----
  • Yashin the best keeper of all time and well suited to a high line.
  • Excellent team at set pieces with many aerially dominant players.
 
Last edited:

P-Nut

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What a write up, hated the side when I saw it in a 442, but it does seem a possibility to work even if I'm not sure on some of the personnel in place such as Makélélé
 

Pat_Mustard

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TEAM ISOTOPE/HIMANNV PART DEUX:

Antonio Benarrivo

All touch compilation:


Player features based on the above compilation:
  • Excellent anticipation and game reading
  • Good pace and he's constantly competing for balls and getting into footraces with opponents if the chase is on
  • Good crossing and able to whip it in with both feet. Hard to predict since he's also good with his left foot
  • Applies good pressure and tackles well on one-to-ones
  • Good defensive interceptions and workrate
  • Can run the flank both offensively and defensively
  • Overlaps nicely
  • Progresses the ball well and he's constantly available for the out ball to get it into the opposition half
  • Good technique, good passing, and good vision
Quite an underrated player I think and he looks like he'll fit very nicely into a modern team.

Jean Tigana

All touch compilation:


Player features based on the above compilation:
  • Proper two-way player who is heavily involved in both phases.
  • He's a bloodhound off the ball and presses with intensity and pace.
  • Good on the ball and shows for it and helps take it out of defence.
  • Comfortable at retaining possession and very comfortable in a fast-paced attacking game.
  • Excellent tackling and clever with his positioning to prop up both the defence and attack.
  • Covers for fullbacks and puts out fires everywhere.
  • Good technique in tight spaces.
  • Good passing as well and ends up with the match-winning assist.
  • Insane engine and perfect for a pressing team.
 

Isotope

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Thanks Pat, for setting up the game. Yeh, our graph is too big. You can resize the pix by dragging the graph corner point.
 

Isotope

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Now back into the game before I'm off.

That Earvin's right side is a loophole to exploit. With only Ribery that somehow (at most) defensively decent. And our left side is actually the strongest one, with Nedved, Bossis, and Keegan love venturing there.

TAA has that much freedom to venture forward, with Liverpool having 3 workhorse in midfield covering him.
 

Gio

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Good write-ups.

It would make an incredible 4-2-2-2, but fundamentally I'm not sure the 3 lines of a 4-4-2 get the best out of the likes of Pirlo, Iniesta and Totti who instinctively want to combine in smaller spaces.

Otherwise I'd swap Varane and Koeman. Getting the best out of Trent needs a pacy RCB (like Gomez) and ideally an athletic holding midfielder on the right. Especially with Nedved buzzing around. And then Koeman and Trent can provide dangerous long balls from both sides of the pitch.
 

Earvin Johnson

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@Earvin Johnson how many long passers from deep do you need :lol:
As much as it will be needed to break that press and overrun that Midfield :lol:

Now back into the game before I'm off.

That Earvin's right side is a loophole to exploit. With only Ribery that somehow (at most) defensively decent. And our left side is actually the strongest one, with Nedved, Bossis, and Keegan love venturing there.

TAA has that much freedom to venture forward, with Liverpool having 3 workhorse in midfield covering him.

No its not, i'd invite you to read the part Factor X where i expand on TAA defensive abilities.
 

Šjor Bepo

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As much as it will be needed to break that press and overrun that Midfield :lol:
why did you went Buffon early considering the theme? He just went from your biggest asset to a liability. Makelele and Ribery are strange picks as well - specially latter. Its a bit pointless to pick him for the right side, a lot of wingers played on both sides but Ribs was like 99% on the left and considering the style of play, he was there for a reason. Also, once opposition breaks you must pray to god they do it on their right side because trio of Pirlo, Trent and Koeman defending counters would be pure comedy.
 

Earvin Johnson

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Good write-ups.

It would make an incredible 4-2-2-2, but fundamentally I'm not sure the 3 lines of a 4-4-2 get the best out of the likes of Pirlo, Iniesta and Totti who instinctively want to combine in smaller spaces.
I don't get this part of the post, Adding more players in the midfield, overcrowds it which gives an advantage to techincal players who have many solutions to pass the ball to. As i said the 2-3-2-3 formation when attacking is the one used by City this year and it gets the best out of their technical players so why wouldn't it get the best out of Pirlo, Iniesta and Totti considering that they are comfortably better than any city player bar maybe KDB?

Otherwise I'd swap Varane and Koeman. Getting the best out of Trent needs a pacy RCB (like Gomez) and ideally an athletic holding midfielder on the right. Especially with Nedved buzzing around. And then Koeman and Trent can provide dangerous long balls from both sides of the pitch.
That's not entirely true, since Joe Gomez have had very little game time these past two seasons and it di not affect in any way Trent's performance. He has been paired with Matip who is far from being a pacey center back like Gomez.

why did you went Buffon early considering the theme? He just went from your biggest asset to a liability. Makelele and Ribery are strange picks as well - specially latter. Its a bit pointless to pick him for the right side, a lot of wingers played on both sides but Ribs was like 99% on the left and considering the style of play, he was there for a reason. Also, once opposition breaks you must pray to god they do it on their right side because trio of Pirlo, Trent and Koeman defending counters would be pure comedy.
Why do you make it sound like Buffon is some kind of a Pinto bis with the ball at his feet? He is no Neuer but he is no liability either. He is still the greatest on his line which will be extremely valuable whenever the opposition gets a shot on target.
Ribery played on both sides early in his carreer. He played more on the left because of the tactics of his time which privileged the inside forward. During the 2006 World cup he was brilliant on the right side and he played there a few times during his times at Marseille. Furthermore, even when playing as a left winger at Bayern he used to cut outside quite often which is an attribute that is going to be enhanced on the right side by putting him on his strong foot.

And the last point you raise is also fallacious. You assume the breakdown on which basis? Barcelona held one of the best defenses in Europe with a right side composed of Busquets Puyol Xavi/Alves (As Alves was very offensive he used to be higher on the pitch than Xavi most often than not and again he was no special defender).
 

Earvin Johnson

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The way the two teams have set up themselves, i am interested to see how @Isotope and @Himannv will press because in the current setting with the two forwards pressing, all we have to do is to drop Pirlo between the center backs to progress the ball unpressed, and once it's been done, the numerical superiority in the midfield is going to give me possession and thus the team will play its game unhindered. And all other things being equal, Lewandowski is a better finisher than both Kempes and Keagan so theoretically i would need less occasions to score a goal, but if i manage to keep the ball then i would get more occasions anyway which creates a gap.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Also, once opposition breaks you must pray to god they do it on their right side because trio of Pirlo, Trent and Koeman defending counters would be pure comedy.
Yea, that is a glaring weakness.

Great write up @Earvin Johnson , enjoyed reading that.

As I said throughout the drafting, Isotope has built a juggernaut and is an early overwhelming favorite.
 

harms

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Here's my main issue with Earvin's side — and it has already been mentioned in the thread:




While all three of Koeman, Pirlo and Alexander-Arnold are in general underrated in their defensive game (Trent the least out of the three, he can be truly hopeless sometimes), grouping them together in a "triangle of life" (what would be the opposite of the "triangle of death"?) when the opposition has the likes of Nedved, Littbarski, Keegan, Kempes & Tigana, all capable of overcrowding that area or simply dribbling past those... seems a bit suicidal. I appreciate the courage that it took to stay true to the original concept but even someone like Bessonov or another fullback with more balanced play and some qualities of a midfielder would suit this formation better.

And then there's Makélélé, who seems like a wrong choice for this team, it would benefit from someone like Busquets even with Pirlo already there... Ribery on the right — and for some reason it's not him dropping deeper into midfield like you'd expect, but Trent (who is an his best as a hidden threat on an overlap — in Liverpool Salah usually cuts inside, Trent pushes forward on the wing & Henderson covers for him)... and Lewandowski seems like a bit of an odd choice for such a fluid set up. So when the team transforms into a W-W of forts, Makélélé has to play as a central midfielder through the middle & Trent had to be the outside right.

I did expect someone to go for Guardiola's interpretation of 4-4-2 that he's using in City (sometimes even with 2 false 9's!) but then Scrappy said that it's only the orthodox 4-4-2... Still, Earvin's team is probably the closes anyone had come to this. I love the use of Iniesta, he'd be a brilliant left midfielder for any continental 4-4-2. Lovely write-up though, I really appreciate both the thought that went into it and the effort @Earvin Johnson

@Isotope & @Himannv went pretty safe there, aside from, perhaps, the front duo that doesn't have a conventional number 9, but it's easy to envision Kempes & Keegan playing off each other. Other than that there's nothing that you can really criticize them for. Even Bossis is there to cover for Passarella's potential runs forward.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Why do you make it sound like Buffon is some kind of a Pinto bis with the ball at his feet? He is no Neuer but he is no liability either. He is still the greatest on his line which will be extremely valuable whenever the opposition gets a shot on target.
Because he was never good with ball in his feet, in his era it wasnt needed and when he eventually transition a bit into this era he was lucky to be playing in an "old school" defensive team like Juve. Having a progressive keeper both with the ball and without the ball is crucial for a team like City so while someone like Ederson cant be even mentioned in the same breath as the GOAT Gigi, he is a better keeper FOR City and by a quite margin.
Ribery played on both sides early in his carreer. He played more on the left because of the tactics of his time which privileged the inside forward. During the 2006 World cup he was brilliant on the right side and he played there a few times during his times at Marseille. Furthermore, even when playing as a left winger at Bayern he used to cut outside quite often which is an attribute that is going to be enhanced on the right side by putting him on his strong foot.
difference between Ribery on the left and on the right is night and day, your last point is also bizarre....he is cutting in the middle and that attribute will be enhanced by him being on the other side where he would need to cut in on his weaker foot? You are "forcing" him out wide which isnt his game, thats the whole point.

And the last point you raise is also fallacious. You assume the breakdown on which basis? Barcelona held one of the best defenses in Europe with a right side composed of Busquets Puyol Xavi/Alves (As Alves was very offensive he used to be higher on the pitch than Xavi most often than not and again he was no special defender).
first of all, you are not even close to that Barca team. They kept the ball better then your side would, they were few classes above in terms of pressing and apart from Pique who struggled a bit they were all quite comfortable on defending the break.
 

Gio

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I don't get this part of the post, Adding more players in the midfield, overcrowds it which gives an advantage to techincal players who have many solutions to pass the ball to. As i said the 2-3-2-3 formation when attacking is the one used by City this year and it gets the best out of their technical players so why wouldn't it get the best out of Pirlo, Iniesta and Totti considering that they are comfortably better than any city player bar maybe KDB?
No issues with the 2-3-2-3 structure on the ball. It's just the transition from the flat 4-4-2 to that shape takes a bit of work and begs the question why not just start with something narrower.

That's not entirely true, since Joe Gomez have had very little game time these past two seasons and it di not affect in any way Trent's performance. He has been paired with Matip who is far from being a pacey center back like Gomez.
When Liverpool had their troubles at centre-half last season, it seemed to expose Trent a lot. My point though is if Trent is high then you need pace behind him to cover. When Liverpool won the title the Van Dijk / Gomez tandem allowed them to play on the half-way line and have the recovery pace to protect balls in behind the full-backs. More recently, the midfield unit has been positioned slightly differently to provide that protection.

No issues with the use of Trent though - it's more the off-the-ball framework around him. Good to see him used in a proper ball-retaining team and deployed in that inside-right channel to help overload the midfield.
 

Physiocrat

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I like Earvin's idea here but I don't think it works. If he had a few replacements I might have bought it. Maybe de Bruyne for Ribery, Carrick for Makelele and Allison for Buffon. Oh and switch Koeman to LCB.
 

Isotope

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Sorry for just tune in again, Earvin. I just woke up now.

Thank you for the nice write-up, Sjor, Harms, Gio, and GTSQ. I'll just copy and paste them later for our next round game.
 

Isotope

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Here's my main issue with Earvin's side — and it has already been mentioned in the thread:




@Isotope & @Himannv went pretty safe there, aside from, perhaps, the front duo that doesn't have a conventional number 9, but it's easy to envision Kempes & Keegan playing off each other. Other than that there's nothing that you can really criticize them for. Even Bossis is there to cover for Passarella's potential runs forward.
Right. Actually my imagination of 4-4-2 (and any other formation) was so limited, just trying to get as many good players as possible. It's Himanv that gave idea of gegenpress theme, and I thought that was interesting.

True that we selected Bossis as 4th pick on that premise to compliment Passarella, while pretty good providing width. Not many on the pool for that specific role.
 

Isotope

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@Earvin Johnson

We have a thread here about Koeman. Even on his own, it's hard to get players/formation that gives him the best platform. Now adding to this, you have Pirlo, Iniesta, and TAA who on their own need a specific setup too.

I'm interested to see your line-up if you had free reign of choosing players from the pool. For a start, Lewa and Totti works as good as any.
 

General_Elegancia

Chillin' with the Dugongs
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Now back into the game before I'm off.

That Earvin's right side is a loophole to exploit. With only Ribery that somehow (at most) defensively decent. And our left side is actually the strongest one, with Nedved, Bossis, and Keegan love venturing there.

TAA has that much freedom to venture forward, with Liverpool having 3 workhorse in midfield covering him.
Yes, you're right. Liverpool have 3 workhorse in midfielders in midfield for covering him and that two of them are Fabinho and Henderson. A lot of times rcb and even VVD are tend to cover him, when he is high.

That's not entirely true, since Joe Gomez have had very little game time these past two seasons and it di not affect in any way Trent's performance. He has been paired with Matip who is far from being a pacey center back like Gomez.
The reason, Matip is better than Gomez in term of positioning and intelligence in the game. Gomez always makes mad , due to his clumsiness, out of position and lack of concentration.
Joel usually plays as stopper role and VVD always covers him. When VVD is on the pitch, everyone knows that Klopp will play highline for sure because VVD will command the offside control of Liverpool. Joel is not fast but he survives in Klopp's highline by positioning, intelligence and concentration which Gomez lacks especially positioning and concentration. Joel out of position causes him run unnecessary 100m race against opponent attackers .

When Liverpool had their troubles at centre-half last season, it seemed to expose Trent a lot. My point though is if Trent is high then you need pace behind him to cover. When Liverpool won the title the Van Dijk / Gomez tandem allowed them to play on the half-way line and have the recovery pace to protect balls in behind the full-backs. More recently, the midfield unit has been positioned slightly differently to provide that protection.

No issues with the use of Trent though - it's more the off-the-ball framework around him. Good to see him used in a proper ball-retaining team and deployed in that inside-right channel to help overload the midfield.
Yes, They exposed my Arnold a lot. I would say during last season he was in a preposterous form. He made me disappointed all of the season especially after January 2021 until April 2021. During that time, I would say he was a mediocre on defense, always out of position and lacked of concentration. Not only on defense, on offense he didn't activate well especially in term of crossing. Liverpool last season faced so many injuries especially the most important one "VVD", He is the one who control players placement of Klopp's highline.

In this season, I've noticed one thing. He is developed a lot in term of defense and I hope he will keep this form. If he can keep this form, we will win UCL in this season.:lol:

And then there's Makélélé, who seems like a wrong choice for this team, it would benefit from someone like Busquets even with Pirlo already there... Ribery on the right — and for some reason it's not him dropping deeper into midfield like you'd expect, but Trent (who is an his best as a hidden threat on an overlap — in Liverpool Salah usually cuts inside, Trent pushes forward on the wing & Henderson covers for him)... and Lewandowski seems like a bit of an odd choice for such a fluid set up. So when the team transforms into a W-W of forts, Makélélé has to play as a central midfielder through the middle & Trent had to be the outside right.
Correct statement, when Salah cut inside Trent pushes forward, he will have a lot of offensive options. Low crossing, sometimes cut inside to shooting or high crossing, he can do anything he wants. I really think the same about Lewa despite he has pretty great skills and ball controlling and TAA and Makelele too.
 
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