Yeah a fit Jones would have been a good asset to have. Shame about the big injury.
the lad literally put his body on the line for the club, sticking his head were some of them would nt put their feet.
Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
the lad literally put his body on the line for the club, sticking his head were some of them would nt put their feet.
At least with van gaal dodgy transfers we still were or could have been able to recoup their transfer fees, the only two big transfers under him were di maria who didn't even want ot be here in the first place and seemed lined up without lvg's say so, much like herrera and the other being martial who wasn't so much his signing but giggs as van gaal believed he was taking over from him. Plus at least when lvg signed players he actually used them unlike ole who didn't bother with vdb and diallo and also brought players back from good loan spells and decided to let them rot on the sidelines and set back any development and value they had built up from their loan spells.
DdG isn't a mute. What are you on aboutyou want a mute as a captain?
Maguire was the best candidate to replace Ashley Young in 2019/20
Matic would've been a genuine candidate as well for me if he wasnt injury prone..
Fit? By that time Jones had around 30 (minor or big) injuries during his career. In matter of fact, that season (after world cup) he was injured until december.
Player who is injured that much, will not become injury free all of sudden.
Also season before, when he was more fit than usual and played more, he showed in many games how limited (not good enough) in fact he is.
I know you like Jones but he did nothing to deserve that extension.
You don't need a crystal ball to know that Jones will be injured more often than not. We have years of experience to call upon to make that judgement
Maguire was never the best candidateyou want a mute as a captain?
Maguire was the best candidate to replace Ashley Young in 2019/20
Matic would've been a genuine candidate as well for me if he wasnt injury prone..
Jones signed his contract extension on 8th Feb'19 - 1.5 months after Ole was appointed as interim.
Do people really believe Ole, as an interim, had the power to extend players' contracts? And even if we do believe that, do we really believe the contract talks started, and ended within 1.5 months of his arrival?
It was most likely a case of extend contracts of players and let the permanent manager make the judgement of whether the player is required or not.
Do people really believe Ole, as an interim, had the power to extend players' contracts? And even if we do believe that, do we really believe the contract talks started, and ended within 1.5 months of his arrival?
It was most likely a case of extend contracts of players and let the permanent manager make the judgement of whether the player is required or not.
Its not about whether I like him or not, I don’t know him. I just think he takes a lot of unnecessary abuse and fans getting wound up.
If a player is not playing well, you might take the decision to sell him or you might take the decision that he’s a good enough squad player.
you don’t release a player about to come into his peak. (Nobody could tell he was about to get THAT injury, though I’m sure some Houdinis will try). I do agree though that 5 + 1 was OTT.
now can we please stop saying that we should have released him when we all know that it wouldn’t happen
So you would have released an England squad player because he is prone to niggling injuries?
So if I go through your posting history I wouldn't find anything praising Ole on the recruitment we did as a club or how thanks to Ole we've put together the best squad since SAF? Even Ole himself said no one would come into the club without his say so. Was he lying? Why would he do that?
I'm not talking about you personally but it is quite funny the amount of back tracking going on with the signings we've made. When, at least on paper the team looked liked it could go places Ole was getting all the accolades but once it became obvious we were going nowhere the narrative changed to, he was a Woodward signing, Ole didn't want him or Ole had nothing to do with transfers. So many excuses for such an average manager.
Niggling? Up until he signed his contract he had 19 injuries ranging from 11 days up to 59 days out, averaging out to 35 days missing an injury. I dont think niggling is the adequate word to use in this case and yes. He should of been released. Even if he didn't have that major injury after he signed his contract which kept him out for 454 days it was guaranteed he would of missed large chunks of the seasons due to other "niggling" injuries. What good is a player who can't be counted on when it matters?
The fact that you’re referring to a career threatening injury by the amount of days he was out tells me everything I need to know about your argument. Done
We are/would of only kept him for squad depth. I don’t see a problem in letting him go. The only reason he didn’t get sold was because the club refused the back Jose with a CB the previous summer not letting him raise funds through selling a defender like Jones as they believed his replacements weren’t any better (They was right in terms of ability, as this was towards Harry Maguire) But Maguire hardly gets injured and probably works well in a Jose system. Now we are left with both.
I think the contract length supports the fact the board and the manager believed in him. If the manager wasn’t in full support he might of got a shorter deal. But it’s not a dig at Ole, just stating what I believe to be logical.
It would be like Liverpool releasing Joe Gomez. It won’t happen. If someone had offered a deal or we had offered him up for sale I’m sure he would have been moved on. But the club offered him a new deal; im not sure how much control over that Ole had. We still could have sold him before he got his injury.
anyway i feel like I’m going around in circles with various posters on this so I’m out
Eh?? What exactly has one thing got to do with the other? His past injury record should of been the clearest marker of them all. Instead we give him a 5 year contract. One of the reasons the club is in the state it's in is because we keep giving out contracts to every man and his dog making it impossible to sell them. It's time to move on from this experiment because it obviously isn't working.
Exactly you didn’t need to raise that point as it was nothing to do with it!
Fair enough but I only raised that point because even without his career threatening injury he still would of been out for large chunks of his time here with other injuries. He has too much previous not to come to that conclusion which is the reason I didn't want him to sign another contract. Especially one so long. A rolling year to year contract should of been what was offered if we were short on defenders. Even when fit he just normally sits on the bench anyway so his longterm contract to me seems pretty pointless.
You won’t get any argument from me over the length of the contract or that we could have tried to sell/upgrade at that point. What i disagree with is people saying they’d just release him. Those same people would have been moaning it hes then gone on to boss it elsewhere
DDG was never captain material. Whatever the criticism of Ole, Maguire as captain wasn’t a bad choice then and he actually played very well under him for the most part. Now it looks like his form has nosedived but he Is a far better leader than De Gea could ever dream of.
He was always a mediocre manager at best, who had a fantastic start to his tenure as an interim.
The club is at fault here for giving him the full time job. Whether they did it because he was a United legend and a yes man, or whether they genuinely thought he was a good candidate for the job, no one knows. I hope it’s the former, since the latter would mean that this club really has no planning or system in place, and just goes with the flow.
The signings under him are looking worse with every passing day. James is already gone, Maguire and AWB are some of the most expensive flops in history. Again, we are not sure if this was coming from him or the board. But this was the problem, since most of the top managers have a clear playing style and would expect to have control over who they sign. While Ole seemed to just go with the flow.
We need to completely revamp the club and it’s identity, and stay away from the legends and nostalgia for a good while. The whole Ole situation was the perfect example in how this nostalgia could lead to a bad situation. I’m all in for Ralf and whoever the next manager is to lead the club in a new direction.
The club is at fault here for giving him the full time job. Whether they did it because he was a United legend and a yes man, or whether they genuinely thought he was a good candidate for the job, no one knows. I hope it’s the former, since the latter would mean that this club really has no planning or system in place, and just goes with the flow.
The signings under him are looking worse with every passing day. James is already gone, Maguire and AWB are some of the most expensive flops in history. Again, we are not sure if this was coming from him or the board. But this was the problem, since most of the top managers have a clear playing style and would expect to have control over who they sign. While Ole seemed to just go with the flow.
We need to completely revamp the club and it’s identity, and stay away from the legends and nostalgia for a good while. The whole Ole situation was the perfect example in how this nostalgia could lead to a bad situation. I’m all in for Ralf and whoever the next manager is to lead the club in a new direction.
Other people were involved with transfers, but Solskjaer did say he had the final say.
Considering the fact he left the coaching to others, you'd expect him to at least be massively involved in transfers. Otherwise, what's his actual input and involvement in the first team?
Anyhow, it's not just about Solskjaer. We keep making the same complaints about totally different sets of players for nearly nine years now. So either we've been absolutely terrible at dozens of transfers, or the main issue is the several bad appointments made since Fergie. And I say: It's the managers before the players.
One thing comes to my mind. During his tenure, we United fans spent second halves of seasons watching will Liverpool win 20th title or will City win CL.
And again this season.....what a shit feeling
And again this season.....what a shit feeling
You can go and check. I have been critical to some transfers club made under Solskjaer. I am not ashamed to say I rather would have kept James in team instead of players like Pogba and Lingard. I’m gonna repeat that Solskjaer is not blameless but in my opinion biggest problem is players. Their atitude, character, leadership. Not managers. Lot of players are good on paper but when it comes to perform it is just average. At best. They need to look themselfs in mirror. Otherwise it will be like song on repeat with new manager.
How they worked from day to day is up to them. Some managers let other take controll of some things. Some others want to controll everything.
Big problem is that post Fergie we have been buying ”popular” players to please fans. Solskjaer was no stranger to that. We didn’t need some of those big transfers. Lot of bad, bad transfers have now happened post Fergie. Players we didn’t need. Players that get lot of money and they don’t need to perform. They know that. They will still play because of power. When you put those players in the corner with some kind of pressure they fall apart. This is also applied to homegrown players. And then blaming game starts. Who goes out first? Always managers because it is easier to change one instead of 15. I hope club can stick with Rangnick if he wants and not get some ”popular”manager. Regardless what happens, new manager time.
He has done more damage to this club than Lvg, Jose and Moyes.
All that culture reboot, building a team, dna and what not turned out to be PR bull crap and excuses provided by his defenders.
The much coveted top 4 finishes meant f all as there was no follow through.
To top it off, the club ended up wasting huge sums of money with ridiculous wages and contracts extended to dead wood under his watch.
All that culture reboot, building a team, dna and what not turned out to be PR bull crap and excuses provided by his defenders.
The much coveted top 4 finishes meant f all as there was no follow through.
To top it off, the club ended up wasting huge sums of money with ridiculous wages and contracts extended to dead wood under his watch.
Finishing 3rd and 2nd was the reason he was kept and given a new contract. That is the main goal of our board - CL qualification.
In 3 years there were some improvements here and there but not what should to be expected for a club like Man Utd. The only reasonable moments when he could of been sacked was after his first 5 months when he finished the season badly and the next season before signing Bruno in January.
The fact he isn't a good manager could be seen on the pitch where we had no idea, no vision not comprehensive way of playing, but everyone was fooled into thinking we are work in progress and things will click at some point.
Look at Xavi what he has done at Barca in 4 months, he didn't need 3 years to "build a team".
It was those top reds that bought into the whole rebuild that let fans down. But also the fact that the club entrusted its future to someone with absolutely no qualifications or track record to do the job. That was on Woodward. A top manager should not be given final say on transfers, there is too much going on for them in a massive club to be fully aware of all the options and to make a call. That is why you need a strong DoF and a clear football decision making structure. Ole wasted best part of a billion on transfers and wages, left us with an even more unbalanced squad and divided dressing room, with no coherent football philosophy. Joke of a manager for a joke club.
Ole was a top player for us and provided us with some great moments, no question. His legacy in this sense will remain intact.
As a manager, he's poor and tactically inept. He should have been replaced at the end of his interim spell regardless. I don't think he dealt with the egos in the dressing room nor do I think he set any kind of standard. It's this that has in opinion left the dressing room in a shambles and left the players thinking they run the show. Ralf is doing his best to assert his authority but in doing so, look how many reports we've seen of players suggesting he's not up to it etc. That culture is on Ole.
As a manager, he's poor and tactically inept. He should have been replaced at the end of his interim spell regardless. I don't think he dealt with the egos in the dressing room nor do I think he set any kind of standard. It's this that has in opinion left the dressing room in a shambles and left the players thinking they run the show. Ralf is doing his best to assert his authority but in doing so, look how many reports we've seen of players suggesting he's not up to it etc. That culture is on Ole.
Good comment. This pretty much sums up everything, with players behaving as though they can do what ever they want.
Ole’s hands off approach was more likely due to his lack of experience, whilst this group of players needed an assertive coach more than anything, but that horse has bolted now and the toxicity within the squad now needs to be dealt with.
It is damaging United, can’t disagree with that. Whether you can blame Ole for it without the benefit of hindsight might be another question but that isn’t the point.
The point is:
SAF (the greatest manager of all time, for the record) let the squad fall into disrepair towards the end of his tenure (something he had never really done before).
Moyes took the best club in the world, gutted the coaching staff, dithered in the market and effectively set us back ten years.
LVG came in and spent bucketloads of cash on dross (albeit a number of his signings have proven to be very good under different management) backed by seemingly the worst scouting system known to man.
Jose came in and did his usual, instant success readymade signings and it worked, up to a point. Then Jose did his other usual, spit the dummy out and watch the club burn (This also worked, very well).
Ole picked the club up in arguably the worst state I’ve seen it. He got some results and he bought players that (without the benefit of hindsight) seemed to fit the bill. He worked with the club to revamp the scouting system and allegedly got this department on track. Ultimately we realise that the new scouting system is as bad as the old; while I believe it was donewith the best intentions OGS flooded the club with jobs for the lads and left us in bad shape also (However, on paper at the start of this season our squad was competitive and sound).
I could go on forever about the pros and cons of each manager, but ultimately there is only one constant, that’s the owners (since even clueless Ed has made way now).
My big problem is people thinking that OGS is the root of the clubs problems when he did largely the same as if not better than his predecessors (post SAF) in terms ofleaving a viable squad behind.
He also left is with a squad that basically improved feck all under his stint which will set us back for years.
That's not even counting how many players he have ruined by having no discipline at all which has left us with this shit fest we call a team which lacks fitness, motivation and discipline.
Basically Ralf doing worse than ole is evidence that ole coached the players so badly that they are uncoachable, rather than maybe Ralf isn't that good a manager, and that explains why he hasn't had a job in so many years.
I even saw in one thread someone said ole got together personalities that are too hard to manage and is to blame for the dressing room falling apart... He put together a team for him to manage, he wasn't thinking ahead if United hired a manager who had never managed big personalities what would happen.
Everything that happened under ole, good of bad, was on ole. Not on mourinho or Woodward or Ronaldo. Everything that happens under Ralf is on Ralf. He needs to be doing better with the players he has.
I even saw in one thread someone said ole got together personalities that are too hard to manage and is to blame for the dressing room falling apart... He put together a team for him to manage, he wasn't thinking ahead if United hired a manager who had never managed big personalities what would happen.
Everything that happened under ole, good of bad, was on ole. Not on mourinho or Woodward or Ronaldo. Everything that happens under Ralf is on Ralf. He needs to be doing better with the players he has.
What has he done? Won something?
Come back next time when we hammer City or Pool 4-0. Ask any Barca fans few months ago if they think its possible to hammer Madrid 4-0 in the Bernabeu this season, they would laugh your ass off. We could see Xavi is bringing Barca back to the right way
I doubt anyone thought 2 seasons ago that we'd do the double over City in the league, or anyone who thought that we'd not lose to City in the league 2 seasons in a row, or finish above Pool in the league as well
We done the double over City, won 2-0 we finished above Liverpool in the league. I bet if I told you that last season, you would have laughed your ass off too but it happened.
Also, lets not act as if Real are anywhere near the levels of City or Pool. Liverpool and City would smash them too.
From a managerial perspective, Mourinho's legacy at the club looks better with each passing day, whereas Ole's just gets worse.
After 3 years Ole still didn't know the style of play he wanted for us. It took Xavi about 3 minutes. The difference is night and day.
No actually he did, it was counter attacking football. Ole had a good phase too, like what Xavi has had now.
Its quite interesting to see Xavi coming out saying in England players after a bit of form are over rated when he has had a good month and is being over rated by Barca and other fans.
Why do we have so many of these weird fans who support Jose Mourinho and want to put him on a pedestal at all costs?
I liked Jose but he ultimately deserved to be sacked as he didn't achieve consistent results on the pitch, before preceeding to fall out with literally everyone.
The only legacy Mourinho left behind was that of being the most despised United manager in the history of the club. He was as equally big a disaster as Moyes.