Let’s shop in Aldi from now on because we got a dodgy turkey in M&S that one time

[devilish]

In my opinion, one of United's biggest mistakes was to treat players as a brand name rather then actual people. A big fee signing is at least one of the following

a- He's a known talent. Which means he's usually at least older then 25 years old.
b- He's already playing at a decent club who have the means to value his talent accurately and add an extra 20m to his fee as they don't need to sell (the so called Manchester United tax)
c- An 80m rated signing will ask the salary of an 80m rated player

Now lets see how it usually works in practice.

A 25-26 year player has little room to develop talent wise. If he's 28-29 year old then the only way is down. That means that usually the maximum that club can hope to achieve is to buy a player that will retain his value once he's bought. Add that 20m extra to the fee and the immense salary such player would expect then such feat will become more difficult.

SAF avoided signing big fee signings and he would usually spend big money on young players with immense potential. That reduced the risk of A and usually C (a young player would usually accept to be paid less if he knows that the club is fully committed in develop him as a WC player)

 

[Frank Grimes]

The last decade provides nine of our ten most expensive signings of all time, too early to judge Sancho, probably Fernandes too considering the last year.....but it looks like definately more than one Turkey, more like virtually the entire shelf.

I dontt think its about buying the luxury top purchases from M & S anyway, look at the list and its more that we have been paying supermarket prices at hugely inflated prices like they are in the current world, long before they became inflated. We have simply spent way above wha tthe prices should have been for several players. Maguires £80m for example was comparable with when we spent £30m on Ferdinand. Ferdinand was always a massively talented centre back, Maguire was doing well at Leicester but he was never such a player long before the catastophe of a plyaer he has been this season, just a good centre back.

Its about signing the right players and not paying stupid prices for them, but this summer we may have £200m and we need 6/7 signings to realistically significantly progress the quality of our side with severalplayers leaving regardless of wheter we want to keep them or not. So we can maybe make one big signing n terms of transfer fee but I think this summer would be far more successfull if we get significant numbers in of generally younger players breaking through on the verge of things. We need a minimum of five signings I feel, thats £40m per player, throw in a £60/70m signing and its very difficult for another four, I dont think we spend over £50m on anyone and that isnt a bad thing as personally bar Rice at an astranomical fee or Kane the same, none of the other players I think cost those type of fees are attainable DejOng/Bellingham or want to come OR in my opinion are worth the fees Nunez being an example.

I think there are a whole host of excellent young players way under £50m worth signing. The only players I would pay slightly over £50m for I think we could buy would be Gvardiol and maybe Fofana

I remember thinking anything over 50m for Maguire was lunacy. Of course we ended up paying an extra 30m. Still makes no sense.

 

[Frank Grimes]

The main reason for keeping individual player prices down this summer would be because we have a lot of positions that need filling.

If I have a tenner and go to the farm shop that has a gravy that I like for £8.50, I might be able to get a couple of veggies from Aldi, but I'll probably end up raiding my neighbours' bins to find some chicken.

This could lead to me throwing up the entire meal and being hungry again.

Stop talking about eating out of bins, you're making me feel hungry.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I would much rather we go for non huge names to be honest. The players are out there, we just have to be bothered to scout them properly.

 

[Loon]

Seemingly, as an outsider, we have to make significant investment in our scouting and recruitment department. The story Rangnick has told about the three strikers being nixed at Christmas is pretty damning.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I would much rather we go for non huge names to be honest. The players are out there, we just have to be bothered to scout them properly.

Of course, but we can have a mixed strategy. It doesn't have to be our worst Galacticos impression ever or let's pretend we are poverty cnuts either.

 

[JPRouve]

You judge a player not a price tag. A player price has largely nothing to do with the player quality and more to do with the status of the club he is playing for and the status of the clubs targeting him.

 

[Kostov]

The best possible players that fit a system obviously. For example a lot of people don't want Rice because we'd be 'ripped off'. I'd give my left testicle to have him in our team next season though.

We agree on Rice completely. But I do think we need to shop at Aldi more often. Maguire is another example, if we bought him when he was leaving Hull, nobody would bet an eyelid that he is not as good as VVD or Dias, therefor less pressure, attention and expectations.

 

[Ish]

Seemingly, as an outsider, we have to make significant investment in our scouting and recruitment department. The story Rangnick has told about the three strikers being nixed at Christmas is pretty damning.

What’s the RR story about the 3 strikers?

 

[Loon]

What’s the RR story about the 3 strikers?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61354478

A similar article goes on to say the Lawlor/Bout department said nobody of worth was available and the club sided with their assessment.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...gnick-january-striker-mason-greenwood-1615887

 

[flappyjay]

Is this thinking flawed? Do all our signings have to be under a certain price? I think we should sign the best players available to give us the best possible chance of success. Am I wrong?

Also sometimes you can avoid the most expensive brands do some research and find a quality product that performs as well as the big brands.

 

[Sky1981]

This thread should be in general named the turkey thread

 

[Frank Grimes]

Also sometimes you can avoid the most expensive brands do some research and find a quality product that performs as well as the big brands.

Eh? I don't think you understand the point. I'm not denying value can be found. I'm arguing that paying top money can also be viable in certain instances.

 

[Frank Grimes]

This thread should be in general named the turkey thread

Wait until xmas.

 

[Spaghetti]

This forum turns every thread into a Liverpool wankfest. “Ohhh Robertson was less than Shaw”, “omg some Liverpool reserve winger was only 35 million” etc.

feck them.

 

[Dansk]

The most expensive players don't really have a very good record for success, do they?

1. Neymar: not a total fiasco, but hardly lived up to it and already seems to be approaching an early decline. Rarely has even 30 appearances per season, and lots of question marks about his off-pitch antics and general professionalism.
2. Mbappé: he's one of the few who seems to have worked out, in terms of performances, but they paid €180m and now he's leaving on a free just as he's ready to peak.
3. Coutinho: complete flop.
4. Joao Felix: nothing to write home about, certainly not worth even half of what they paid.
5. Griezmann: more or less a flop at Barcelona.
6. Grealish: bit early to tell, but he certainly hasn't impressed this season.
7. Lukaku (to Chelsea): a flop and an embarrassment.
8. Dembele: didn't live up to it.
9. Pogba: flop, did more harm than good.
10. Hazard: flop.
11. Ronaldo (to Juventus): not a flop per se, but they paid €100m for him and didn't really get their money's worth.
12. Gareth Bale: always injured.
13. Ronaldo (to Real): worked out great, rare exception.
14. Higuain (to Juventus): not the biggest flop in the world, but not a smash hit, either.
15. Maguire:
16. Lukaku (to United):
17. Sancho: jury's still out, he could come good but I won't rate him based on this season.
18. van Dijk: big success, alas.
19. Pepe (Arsenal): looks a lot like a flop.
20. Kepa: most expensive goalkeeper transfer in history, a flop.

That's not a lot of success stories. Most of these weren't worth it for the buyer.

 

[JPRouve]

The most expensive players don't really have a very good record for success, do they?

1. Neymar: not a total fiasco, but hardly lived up to it and already seems to be approaching an early decline. Rarely has even 30 appearances per season, and lots of question marks about his off-pitch antics and general professionalism.
2. Mbappé: he's one of the few who seems to have worked out, in terms of performances, but they paid €180m and now he's leaving on a free.
3. Coutinho: complete flop.
4. Joao Felix: nothing to write home about, certainly not worth even half of what they paid.
5. Griezmann: more or less a flop at Barcelona.
6. Grealish: bit early to tell, but he certainly hasn't impressed this season.
7. Lukaku (to Chelsea): a flop and an embarrassment.
8. Dembele: didn't live up to it.
9. Pogba: flop, did more harm than good.
10. Hazard: flop.
11. Ronaldo (to Juventus): not a flop per se, but they paid €100m for him and didn't really get their money's worth.
12. Gareth Bale: always injured.
13. Ronaldo (to Real): worked out great, rare exception.
14. Higuain (to Juventus): not the biggest flop in the world, but not a smash hit, either.
15. Maguire:
16. Lukaku (to United):
17. Sancho: jury's still out, he could come good but I won't rate him based on this season.
18. van Dijk: big success, alas.
19. Pepe (Arsenal): looks a lot like a flop.
20. Kepa: most expensive goalkeeper transfer in history, a flop.

That's not a lot of success stories. Most of these weren't worth it for the buyer.

They follow the same logic than other transfers, that's why we should never judge the price tag. There is a study somewhere from a few years ago, only around 50% of transfers are a "success".

 

[Oranges038]

ALDI is fine if you can find reliable products that can do the same or better than some of the more expensive ones from M&S.

But stay away from the special buys, you can buy crap like that from Argos all the time and it's never any good.

 

[horsechoker]

What was Raiola the equivalent of?

Del Boy?

 

[Ish]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61354478

A similar article goes on to say the Lawlor/Bout department said nobody of worth was available and the club sided with their assessment.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/...gnick-january-striker-mason-greenwood-1615887

Thanks bud. Our scouts are useless. From the reports of having assessed over 800 right backs, to things like this. Glad there’s a restructure.

 

[marktan]

I mean you just have to look at Liverpool in 2016 and follow their example. Shit squad like us so they purchased loads of £30-40m with great scouting to build the squad, and then had two £70m purchases of VVD and Alisson where they bought basically the two best players in the world in their position.

Our problem is someone performs half decently in some other league and we decide to spend £70m on them because of it, with no actual consideration of the fit of the player into the team or scouting of alternatives. Really amateur stuff.

 

[JPRouve]

Thanks bud. Our scouts are useless. From the reports of having assessed over 800 right backs, to things like this. Glad there’s a restructure.

Are they? Vlahovic ended up being a very expensive signing for Juventus and he isn't really close to be worth it, he may be in the future but for the moment it's not guaranteed success, Alvarez is an unknown and Diaz is the one that could have been but we don't really know anything about the circumstances surrounding his transfer and whether he was already on his way to Liverpool or not.

The quotes from Rangnick and the different articles on these subjects are frankly stupid and in the case of Rangnick worrying because he isn't thinking carefully, he just names players for the sake of it.

 

[Jericholyte2]

That one time…?

 

[Ødegaard]

Is it flawed? Yes.
Whenever I switch shop due to product issues it is usually because we find them to be bad at storing their products.

I also think it's fine if people wanna switch of they have a bad experience, it might not make sense logically but feeling more safe in the products you buy is important for the buyer.

I just woke up, I'm not talking about football at all.

 

[giggs-beckham]

I hope you're not suggesting my analogy is flawed and therefore this thread has a limited shelf life?

I think he is Grimey

 

[Lentwood]

Is this thinking flawed? Do all our signings have to be under a certain price? I think we should sign the best players available to give us the best possible chance of success. Am I wrong?

I don't think that's what people are saying though.

People are highlighting that we have targeted the wrong profile of player, the so-called big names, the players with aspirations to be celebrities, the players who shift shirts and have large egos.

We need hungry, humble, aggressive players who can quickly adapt to the ferocious nature of English football - their price is largely not the determining factor

 

[arthurka]

Luis Diaz cost 35m.

There’s value in the market if you look for it.

Problem is you have to go shopping to find it not getting shit delivered to your door.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't think that's what people are saying though.

People are highlighting that we have targeted the wrong profile of player, the so-called big names, the players with aspirations to be celebrities, the players who shift shirts and have large egos.

We need hungry, humble, aggressive players who can quickly adapt to the ferocious nature of English football - their price is largely not the determining factor

We haven't really signed a lot of big names and they are not the issue for United, as much as posters want to harp on it. The issue is the accumulation of these following signings that don't actually move the needle.

Lindelof - 35m€
Bailly - 38m€
Fred - 60m€
Matic - 44m€
Van De Beek - 38m€
Shaw - 37m
Maguire - 80m€
Wan Bissaka - 55m€
Schneiderlin - 35m€
Depay - 34m
Herrera - 36m€
Mata - 44m€
Fellaini - 38m€
Mkhitaryan - 42m€
Dalot -22m
Rojo - 20m€
Martial - 60m€

That's the issue of United, in the world of Football these are all large fees and we arguably hit on none of them, none of them can retrospectively be seen as a good deal, you can barely state that you are on par. The likes of Pogba and Lukaku are also failed transfers and people have a lot resentment bu they are not United's problem because you could justify the fees based on actual performances during previous seasons, I would do the same for Mata but the rest are abject and expensive failures and that includes every single signings that we made within the PL.

 

[Dansk]

They follow the same logic than other transfers, that's why we should never judge the price tag. There is a study somewhere from a few years ago, only around 50% of transfers are a "success".

Eh. If the normal rate of success is 50% but only four out of the 20 most expensive transfers were a success, and a couple more who are too early to tell but haven't had a good first season, that certainly seems to say something. There's a very clear and demonstrable trend showing that players from the highest price range very rarely work out for the buyer.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I'm not spending £100 on Declan's rice.

 

[JPRouve]

Eh. If the normal rate of success is 50% but only four out of the 20 most expensive transfers were a success, and a couple more who are too early to tell but haven't had a good first season, that certainly seems to say something. There's a very clear and demonstrable trend showing that players from the highest price range very rarely work out for the buyer.

20 transfers is a very small sample and out of your 20 your evaluation isn't necessarily accurate. Ronaldo was Juventus best player and played like a 100m player, Higuain was by far the best striker in italy, Neymar has been PSG's best player and his issue has been with injuries caused by opponents.

Even with this small sample size you are actually closer to 50% than 25%.

 

[humdinger]

It’s more than one or two big money signings which have flopped in fairness. It’s pretty much all of them.

 

[Lecland07]

The most expensive players don't really have a very good record for success, do they?

1. Neymar: not a total fiasco, but hardly lived up to it and already seems to be approaching an early decline. Rarely has even 30 appearances per season, and lots of question marks about his off-pitch antics and general professionalism.
2. Mbappé: he's one of the few who seems to have worked out, in terms of performances, but they paid €180m and now he's leaving on a free just as he's ready to peak.
3. Coutinho: complete flop.
4. Joao Felix: nothing to write home about, certainly not worth even half of what they paid.
5. Griezmann: more or less a flop at Barcelona.
6. Grealish: bit early to tell, but he certainly hasn't impressed this season.
7. Lukaku (to Chelsea): a flop and an embarrassment.
8. Dembele: didn't live up to it.
9. Pogba: flop, did more harm than good.
10. Hazard: flop.
11. Ronaldo (to Juventus): not a flop per se, but they paid €100m for him and didn't really get their money's worth.
12. Gareth Bale: always injured.
13. Ronaldo (to Real): worked out great, rare exception.
14. Higuain (to Juventus): not the biggest flop in the world, but not a smash hit, either.
15. Maguire:
16. Lukaku (to United):
17. Sancho: jury's still out, he could come good but I won't rate him based on this season.
18. van Dijk: big success, alas.
19. Pepe (Arsenal): looks a lot like a flop.
20. Kepa: most expensive goalkeeper transfer in history, a flop.

That's not a lot of success stories. Most of these weren't worth it for the buyer.

Whilst I agree with most - Bale was definitely worth it. Scored loads of important goals for Real Madrid.

 

[Lecland07]

This forum turns every thread into a Liverpool wankfest. “Ohhh Robertson was less than Shaw”, “omg some Liverpool reserve winger was only 35 million” etc.

feck them.

Okay, is Leicester alright?

Leicester signed:

Vardy for £1m from a non-league club.

Kante for £5.6m

Mahrez for £400k from Ligue 2

 

[Plant0x84]

Of course, I got many a cracking deal at Aldi, maybe not as nourishing a meal as the M&S alternative but still good enough.

Why would it be any less nourishing? A potato is a potato is a potato. It’s just about how flashy the packaging is and how well it’s marketed.
At this point we have enough potatoes in flashy packages. We need some wholesome foods in plain cans that do what it says on the tin!

 

[sunama]

Is this thinking flawed? Do all our signings have to be under a certain price? I think we should sign the best players available to give us the best possible chance of success. Am I wrong?

I too, like you, loved the Galactico signings. Breaking transfer fee records. The most expensive players. The glamour. The excitement.
But, given our results over the last 9 years, this strategy hasn't worked. Based on this, I think we should now focus on players who few people have heard of and we turn those players into superstars AFTER they arrive at MUFC.
Our scouts who have been absolutely useless for the past few years, need to try and unearth gems (players that few people have heard of, but do very well in our team). And let's not forget about coaching - they need to improve players. Over the last few years, every single player has arrived playing well and has then nose-dived. Bruno F, being the latest example.

The club needs to completely re-write its rulebook, from top to bottom. Changing manager alone, won't make any difference.

 

[Rozay]

Glad someone else has made this thread. If I had thought of such an apt thread name I might have done it, bravo @Frank Grimes

We have to be very careful. There appears to have been a sentiment on here almost that ‘he is too good a player, clearly our board hasn’t learned anything’ or whatever.

We must be careful. We are in the PL. Everyone can but a £30m player. I’m not sure some sort of - ‘let’s buy the same players that any of the other 19 could also buy and then just rely/hope that we have the best manager’ strategy is wise. They even have top managers too now. One of the key things that should differentiate us from most of the rest of the league is that we buy players they simply cannot. Many of the players I am seeing in the Transfer Forum could just as easily end up at Brighton or Villa as they could at United.

 

[BEST No7]

We've been blind shopping for 10 years, looking the ingredients for success and ending up with a clusterfeck of things that just don't make a good meal. Doesn't matter where we shop if no shopping list is done beforehand

As someone as already mentioned though most transfers aren't a success. We're gona have to do something we haven't done in well over ten years this upcoming season and make multiple successful signings in one go. So M&S, Aldi...Doesn't matter as long as their the right signings.

 

[tenpoless]

Need to sign the correct players. Dont care if theyre the best in the position or expensive or cheap. I dont want another Pogbas and Lingards at the club. One is very expensive the other we got for free and they both have been a disgrace towards the club.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Our fanbase is far too arrogant for us to even consider lower league/unheard of players.

We should have bought Tierney VvD from Celtic, Nathan Patterson and Billy Gilmour from Rangers John McGinn from Hibs (but bad scouting and being snobs cost us) those 5 (lb cb rb cdm cm) would have cost around £50m the same price we paid for AwB but no they all played in Scotland and they wouldnt be deemed good enough, all 5 have more hunger and heart than the charlatans in our current squa!

All 5 improve our team vastly!