i knew there were more, you could probably include Savage too - but the names escape me.
Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap
- Thread starter davidmichael
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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It does give me some pleasure as well, looking at those 2 finals and how fecking obnoxious their fan base can be at times.It’s actually far from boring. Mind-boggling is what it is.
It’s also shockingly entertaining to see what a joke Barca have become. I can assure you the majority of their fan base is quite embarrassed by their dire situation. Quite a few of my friends in one of my social circles are Barca fans and they’re dead silent and MIA these days. Those who do dare speak up are just saving grace instead of defending anything.
I mean I used to feel bad for Arsenal fans at a certain point in time but Barca have become the joke of a century by a mile.
Is it small time to take pleasure at someone else's misery? Yes but it won't stop me months
Nice way of twisting my comment.
I don't see anything to give us the impression we're incompetent. Timber didn't want to come, we moved on. Arsenal have fecked about with Martinez for 2 weeks, we came in and expressed interest and made a bid within a week. We've planned a medical for Eriksen, who will likely have to have a FAR more extensive one given his history. We're still for de Jong, as much as you think ETH is being stupid. Seems to me that you're supporting the wrong club if you think we're being incompetent, or you're just trolling for kicks
FdJ camp is sending out strong 'staying at Barca' signals. In other words they're calling Barca's bluff.
Let's face it, there's not a right lot to be positive about either over this deal. Some journos just repeated the same shit for weeks and weeks about us having a deal in place. We've not had any reports on progress in how long now? 5 weeks? There's not a lot to cling onto right now unless you can turn every negative into a positive like some sort of desperate nutjob.
He wouldn't.
Imagine how the board would view him if he said to them "go for de Jong, i know him, he'll come, trust me". If they went back to him and said "look, he doesn't want to come" and ten Hag said "Nah trust me, he'll come, just keep pushing" then you know for a fact if it fell through he'd be in for some shit. Thats why i believe he's got the assurances he needs, regardless of whats being said to the media.
Now that the squad is on tour and won’t be back for 2-3 weeks the urgency in getting this wrapped up isn’t what it was a week ago, so a bit of patience is warranted.
The following seem to be fachts: Barcelona can’t afford Frenkie’s wages and they need to sell him.
If those are indeed fachts let’s be patient.
The following seem to be fachts: Barcelona can’t afford Frenkie’s wages and they need to sell him.
If those are indeed fachts let’s be patient.
Think Haníbal and Garner might have something to say about this year under ten Hag.
Which would mean FdJ will lose his outstanding 17 million Euro.
According to Barcelona posters here FdJ signed a new contract starting the upcoming season. Over the time of this contract he will be paid his new salary and the "deferred" 17 million Euro.
If he decides to leave before the contract even starts, h most likely will wave his claim for the 17 million Euro.
To expect Barcelona to pay him the outstanding money anyway, e.g. for moral reasons, is totally unrealistic. Without a legally binding obligation Barcelona won't pay a dime.
Of course United could offer him to cover for the loss and pay FdJ a 17 million Euro joining bonus. I don't see any other way this is going to happen.
It's common for clubs to negotiate on deals for multiple players in the same position. If all deals are successful then its up to the club to decide whom they end up with in the end. Also note that acting like aholes in the transfer market is common as well. Barca for example seem to expect us to pay De Jong's pending salary bills
However I wouldn't mind if we get them both. Ruiz is a very talented midfielder and he's got 1 year left in his contract. He shouldn't be expensive to buy. Napoli are also interested in Ronaldo so a straight swap might be possible
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Because we're fecking human! I look up at the clouds in envy, wishing I was also bouncing about blissfully. But no, I just hear the clock ticking. I can't take it anymore, Smee!
It’s a win win for FDJ, he says “I’m staying 100%” to Barça and “I’m not renegotiating my wage again”.
What are Barça then left with? They either keep him and pay him, else they find a way to pay him off and get him and his wage off the books.
He has to call their bluff, it’s absolutely the right play from him whichever way you look at it.
When theres no news, it's FAR more easier to pump out negative news than positive. You just have to have the time and patience to sit through the BS until something concrete happens, good or bad.
Hence why i don't believe any of the negative stuff. It's not being backed up anywhere. I'm being rational about it all, and not believing every bit of negative crap as if it's gospel truth.
If that is true and that's how his deal is set up, then there's absolutely zero chance we're getting him. That changes the dynamic completely.
No I was saying you are right about me thinking we are incompetent and a mess, can't see anything but this blowing up right in our faces bar a miracle. Yes players like Neves & Tielemans are levels below but at least they would be keener to join than him
If it's true then he must have the worst agent and worst lawyers imaginable. Which is possible.
It’s true, been repeated loads and it’s exactly why United have a chance to get him. Although it’s incorrect he signed a new deal for this season, by all reports he signed that mid Covid to help out Barça, it included enormous wage drops for year 1 and 2, and huge increases for years 3-6 to make up for the losses in year 1 & 2.
He’s standing firm with them, as he’s in the strongest position, they either pay him off, or he stays, on wages they cannot afford.
why would he be so stupid to sign such a deal?
Fair enough, in that case i apologise for the assumption you was twisting my comments!
We don't know if it will or not. As i say, we're taking the word of unreliable Spanish sources, which if you read their articles, they come across more as opinion pieces than proper articles.
The simple fact is, we don't know whats happening as the club is staying very quiet, and the the sources that would know aren't saying anything either. That, in my opinion, means that nothing has changed, for good or for worse, as if things had gone downhill, we'd have briefed and walked away as past history has demonstrated.
It seems a crappy way to do things, especially if the aim is to lead Ruiz and his club into believing that the transfer would definitely go ahead regardless of what happens with De Jong. But as you say it’s hardly unusual or unknown. I guess I’m just saying that if Napoli or De Jong doubted Utd’s intentions it might be more difficult to reach an agreement, I’m sure you’d dislike it if another club unsettled your player in the same way. Agree with you on Ruiz himself, by the way, I think he’d be a valuable upgrade and really wouldn’t break the bank. I can see him getting a biggish move next year if you are right about the contract situation, not many players of his age and ability come along on ‘free’ transfers very often.
Would be better off targeting Ruiz and a proper DM, well that's if he's more of a CM of course
Plus the longer this drags on, the less chance they get of signing their first choice players.
Leeds, apparently, have said that they're getting close to stopping talks over Raphinha and have told Barca to hurry up or they'll resume talks with Chelsea. Bayern are playing hardball with Lewandowski, they want the money up front it seems. Even IF they got them, they couldn't register them anyway until de Jong is sorted, and lets be honest, they won't have de Jong on more wages than Lewandowski!
You're consistently ignoring the fact that Barcelona want and need to get rid of him and his regular wages as well.
Is he back of his holidays yet? Barca off to the states soon, so lets see if he's on the plane...
And if he decides to stay, on his current deal, what then?
To expect De Jong to walk away, for moral reasons, is totally unrealistic. De Jong isn’t required to lose a dime of what he is owed, he can stay, and get paid.
Or… Barça can find an agreement with him, to get him off the books.
My best guess for a solution will be Barça agreeing something around 50% of what is “owed”, that with a signing bonus from United will save Barca 8-9 million euros, get huge wages off the books, and De Jong will not really be out of pocket.
It might be crappy but that's how football often works. I remember when AC Milan were negotiating for Pancev and Savicevic concurrently. Pancev ended up choosing Inter while Milan had to 'make due' with Savicevic. That caught the headlines because both played for Red Star Belgrade, they were both forwards and Pancev was wanted by the Italian rival clubs. Can you imagine being Savicevic and having to meet Pancev at the time? He actually knew that he was he consolation price and that his career in Italy depended on Pancev refusing Milan.
Honestly the transfer window is just too short for anyone to put all the eggs in one basket. Having said that, plan B can often become plan A in the right circumstances. Considering that Fabian Ruiz has 1 year left in his contract, that he'll probably won't treat United as shit like De Jong is doing and that Napoli might be easier to negotiate with then Barca (Napoli are tough negotiators but they don't expect us to pay for their player's salaries), then there's every chance that Ruiz is able to persuade United and ETH that he's the right man for the job.
Why can't Ruiz be the cover or a squad option if we get De Jong too. No harm in having multiple options.
But how much is the new reduced salary? Wouldn't he end up losing roughly similar amount if he stayed, which he could instead earn at a different club who'd pay his current wages to him. And maybe add in a bonus or so?
Also Barca reneging on paying someone their dues, which the player let go off temporarily to keep the club running, should of course be a huge a red flag to potential new signings.
So, this is a lose-lose situation?
Barca lose if he stays and he loses if he goes?
Who is the biggest loser?
There is no such thing, he and his agent have made it clear they won’t be negotiating again.
He’s due a minimum of 17 million /year from 2022/23.
I have tried to adopt that if we are walking away from this deal then Utd journos would have been briefed stance for so long, however my patience has started to wear very thin on this whole saga
There are alternatives to De Jong if what we're looking for is a technically excellent deep lying playmaker. Ruiz at Napoli and Kokcu at Feyenoord off the top of my head.
Probably because he is at his dream club and had no intention to leave.
It's the job of his agent to ensure his client is paid fully under ANY circumstances.
You can't blame Barcelona here. It's his agent who f***ed up big time in this scenario.
Barcelona can feck right off and FdJ's agents are pretty fecking stupid if they agreed to such a contract.
Must say, this has gone awfully quiet.
In that case we're wasting our time with this deal and we should move forward. What a waste of time that was. Surely someone must be held in account
Would love that solution but optimism is low
Well you can obviously, if an employee agrees to cut his wage by 17 million over two years to help you out in your hour of need and after those two years you try to stiff him, yes you can call the employee naive as feck, but it’s a beyond fecking scummy way to treat an employee who sacrificed that much to help the club.
And, you’re still ignoring that De Jong holds all the cards still here, he can just stay and get paid a shit load, as he is due.
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