It's valid. Not sure about the pressing thing being overblown but yeah it's definitely the low hanging fruit that is allowed to overshadow some tactical problems. In my view he plays like a guy who has only ever known a free role. Sometimes it's like he's doing his own thing. When the attack needs a central option he'll be sprinting to the far post or staying camped there, when he needs to vacate a space or occupy one he'll consciously oppose the one that takes him out of his preferred spot. Excessive runs that ask for direct low percentage passes. Ronaldo had benzema at Madrid who worked as an excellent central hub. To be fair he has been a star all his career, I'm not sure he enjoys central responsibilities either but his teams have to play him there.
Do you believe Ronaldo is finished as a top level player?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
Indeed.
Given how threadbare our squad is up top, and how injury-prone our few options there are, it's pretty clear that the luxury of just using Ronnie as an impact sub simply isn't going to be there; there are games where he is going to have to start and play as part of the team. For that to work he's going to have to adapt to how the manager wants the team to play. And yes, the early signs are that he's doing just that.
Maybe his shiteness is merely down to him being past it. Let's take a more optimistic view and consider the possibility that his off the ball work is terrible simply because he isn't used to having to do it, and it will get better with practice.
Apparently some posters believe that certain players have been passing the ball to Ronaldo because they are his fanbois, rather than because of anything the manager has told them to do. This seems unlikely given the levels of control freakery EtH is famous for.
I think he's undoubtedly finished as an elite player, but I also think he's better than what he's currently showing and he can still be a useful player for us. However, we're not paying for a useful player, we're paying for a world-class, elite player. And he just isn't that. So that's a problem.
WTF! Wrong thread
The use of the word 'holistically' in a football discussion is the biggest crime here.It's not an excuse it's a explanation.
He's an average player now as age has caught up with him. He doesnt really suit TH style of play as Martial and even Rashford seem to do better up top. I would look to bring in a young striker in January, or try Mcneill up front and move Ronaldo on.
It took him a long time to get going last season as well. A lot of people saw through the early glut of goals to see his all round play was piss poor
If he wants to make a something resembling a dent in the WC he must have known what not having a preseason would cause him for a mid season WC. Even more baffling to do it. .
Depends what you mean by top level player. He's obviously not going to be the player he once was, but I do think he will get back to a level that allows him to play a decent role for us this season.
Missing preseason (which was obviously his own fault) put him in a difficult position, and since then he looks like he's trying too hard and overthinking things. What he really needs is a couple of goals. If he can get that I think he'll settle down and he'll be more like the player we saw last season.
Watching him against Sheriff was a little worrying though...
Missing preseason (which was obviously his own fault) put him in a difficult position, and since then he looks like he's trying too hard and overthinking things. What he really needs is a couple of goals. If he can get that I think he'll settle down and he'll be more like the player we saw last season.
Watching him against Sheriff was a little worrying though...
His biggest mistake was coming back to the PL, a league that is so fast for older players. Had he stayed in Serie A, he would be smashing it left and right. If I was him I would sit down with Andrea Agnelli for a reduction of Salary.
Yes I think so in terms of playing a whole season to a decent standard at club level. Still can see him having a good 3-4 months though but it will take time like winding up an old clock. He might just find some sharpness around the World Cup, he did start showing his age like this mid way through last season during the winter time so he's probably working himself up rather than being knackered by the winter time again.
He did put too much effort in for his age in the first third of last season, playing 90 mins too much. Things seem to wrong after he sprinted the length of the pitch to score a last minute goal in a game we were winning and he felt the pain after, holding his stomach.
Playing for United is hard work, we don't get much protection from the refs and were never going to make 4th easy. The second place at a low 73 points was really a net 4th with Liverpool getting their defence back for the following season and no Lampard at Chelsea. Real shame it has gone this way of his return, there was so much positivity and enthusiasm at the beginning.
He did put too much effort in for his age in the first third of last season, playing 90 mins too much. Things seem to wrong after he sprinted the length of the pitch to score a last minute goal in a game we were winning and he felt the pain after, holding his stomach.
Playing for United is hard work, we don't get much protection from the refs and were never going to make 4th easy. The second place at a low 73 points was really a net 4th with Liverpool getting their defence back for the following season and no Lampard at Chelsea. Real shame it has gone this way of his return, there was so much positivity and enthusiasm at the beginning.
Last edited:
Honestly have no idea what he thought he was doing with such antics. Hugely detrimental to whatever footballing ambitions he has, and the question remains of what he’s actually capable of firing on all the cylinders he has left.
There will be a definitive answer to this come the World Cup where he’ll give everything he has with no holding back whatsoever. I also suspect his plan is to use camp with the NT at the World Cup to max out his fitness and go into the tournament proper all guns blazing.
We weren’t in his plans and I don’t think he expected to still be here, but whoever would have got him would’ve gone through the same thing because his fitness for club football is way off and needs addressing first and foremost. My thoughts on that is he had no real intention of handling a club season in terms of a league campaign and would have angled his fitness towards the start of the CL, which would have bought him more time.
Man's stealing a living at the club, and a massive one at that. He doesn't have that split second of time when he gets the ball anymore, and that's neutralized most of his strengths. He's trying to press more, which I can applaud, but he's rubbish at it. We'll probably have to get a striker on loan in January. Still don't know what ETH's plan for this dude was, we'd probably get more out of playing Elanga down the middle in this system.
He does really seem a classic Atleti veteran striker now. Like Villa and Suarez the fans will see that they're done for, on at least a consistent basis, and only trusted for their CV and their occasional important goal makes them look like the hero. Still remember how annoyed I was by Villa, but then suddenly he bossed around Barcelona (in the CL I think) like he just drank a gallon straight out of the fountain of youth. Suarez started out great and seemed to combine amazingly with Felix and Correa, but after 5-10 games it was clear that he lost it. Occasional finish here and there and suddenly he was in the team of the season and the reason for the championship. Second season the occasionals were even less irreplaceable and now he's in Uruguay.
In that sense the links to our club made sense. Very much a player to just hang around in front while the other 10 actually do some work, so he can score 15-20 goals and look like the one who got them to whatever place they'd finish. Never thought I'd be so glad to have Morata over Ronaldo.
In that sense the links to our club made sense. Very much a player to just hang around in front while the other 10 actually do some work, so he can score 15-20 goals and look like the one who got them to whatever place they'd finish. Never thought I'd be so glad to have Morata over Ronaldo.
Yeah. I wanted to live dangerously.Had to go look this up because it sounded very different from what I remembered of Suarez that season. 21 league goals, 18 from open play (7 in the first 10 games, 9 in the 10 after that, 5 in 12 to cap off the season). Not to mention the winning goal in come-from-behind wins in the last two games of the season, both of which I believe you had to win to stay top of the league?
He clearly wasn't the Suarez of 2015 by the time he joined Atletico, and hadn't been for a while. But that bolded line is a bit of a disservice - I'd love for Ronaldo to have that kind of impact this season after having lost it
I was exaggerating, yes, but it was such a pain to watch him in so many games. Statistically that was better than I remembered, but I so vividly remember him ruining so many attacks and combinations. Atleti started the season off so fluidly - with help of Suarez - but the second half of the season was such an excruciating watch. Aside from his Covid-absence, people were really hoping for him to be dropped.Had to go look this up because it sounded very different from what I remembered of Suarez that season. 21 league goals, 18 from open play (7 in the first 10 games, 9 in the 10 after that, 5 in 12 to cap off the season). Not to mention the winning goal in come-from-behind wins in the last two games of the season, both of which I believe you had to win to stay top of the league?
He clearly wasn't the Suarez of 2015 by the time he joined Atletico, and hadn't been for a while. But that bolded line is a bit of a disservice - I'd love for Ronaldo to have that kind of impact this season after having lost it
But what bothers me about those stats making him look like the (sole) reason for the championship, is that in the final game, Correa was the catalyst and no one talks about him. I wanna thank Suarez for his service, but even with those stats I understand why Barça wanted to get rid (one lazy person up front - Messi - takes a lot of strategy for the rest of the squad to compensate, let alone two of them). And I am still not convinced the goals wouldn't have come from someone else either.
Then again, maybe I am too much of a what if-person, but man Suarez really was not much more than those stats and it still saddens me that he was the only player getting recognition from the outside while many other players offered so much, if not much more than he did. I am thankful for those 21 goals, but I do not miss him one bit.
---------
But to get back to Ronaldo: Besides my point he is a much more technically and physically capable player, so I do expect him to offer more during the season than he has so far. Their egos match up and they will not accept to see themselves as someone who lost it, but rather that they just happened to not score for a while.
Last edited:
People are exaggerating. He's not as good as he used to be but at the moment he's passing through a period of bad form. Not to mention he already wanted to leave so he leaks mental drive for now. I have no doubt he'll improve as the season goes on. I expect him to bang a good amount of goals in 2nd half of the season.
He'll never score 30 goals a season again but he can still get 15 ones at least.
He'll never score 30 goals a season again but he can still get 15 ones at least.
Bullshit. We dropped 8 points in the last 4 games, because they didn't matter anymore. Second place was very likely in the bag already whilst City couldn't be caught anymore. If we still had something to fight for, we never lose to Leicester, very likely don't lose to Liverpool and beat Fulham comfortably.
That season we were easily an 80 point team, which is impressive given that the summer before that we got in players pretty late, and the only player that really helped us was just Cavani anyways. Telles' biggest use was lighting a fire under Shaw's ass, Amad & Pellistri didn't play, and neither did van de Beek. And don't forget how bad the season started with Spurs and Palace at home.
People downplay our second place but you can just as easily make an argument for it being a pretty impressing showing overall.
I would love it, I think he would score Mario Jardel numbers in Portugal.
Story book ending having the greatest Portuguese player to ever walk the earth return to the mother land to play for his boyhood club. That move would break the internet and sky rocket TV and attendance ratings for our league.
Next summer I am 85% sure he comes home.
This is fair and I think was quite apparent from his Barca performances for for multiple seasons, especially in the Champions League. He was poor in Europe for at least 3-4 years while still racking up plenty in La Liga, and I don't think he scored even one goal in the CL for you. And there are definitely parallels with his season and Ronaldo's 2021/22 for us in the sense that the goal tallies look better than the weekly 90-minute performances often were, and when the goals dry up the next season there's not a lot to fall back on.
More on topic, is Ronaldo completely finished at the Premier League level and unlikely to contribute anything the entire season? I don't think so - I think a couple of things will happen in the next few weeks:
1) he'll get sharper and stop single-handedly breaking moves down when he gets the ball
2) he'll calm the feck down after bagging another couple of goals, and learn to play a more disciplined role instead of walking around wherever he wants and popping up in midfield to get the ball
3) our general attacking play will continue to improve as Ten Hag's methods take hold - hopefully this will lead to better decision-making from the other players and less of the pass-to-Ronaldo-every-damn-time nonsense
4) bonus: if all of the above happens, we may well tweak the team shape to accommodate a Ronaldo who can produce the goods in front of goal - best way to do this is probably to play him with a strike partner (Martial when he's back), or on the left of a 4-3-3 with a midfield runner (Fred) to help balance out on the defensive side
All of this is naturally based on the hope that Ronaldo's not just completely spent physically - he may well be, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now considering he's only played 380 minutes so far this season. If we're still seeing the same crap performances after 760 minutes, it's time to worry
Been very busy this month.. did that “tell all” thing ever happen?
If so, what did he say?
If so, what did he say?
You are right. He has been doing whatever he wants for quite a while. Including when subbed off and acting like a manager (especially when playing for Portugal). And sadly, he hasn't got the tactical intelligence to make the right decisions, at all.
He cannot run, against Real he was offside by a good 3 or 4 yards and the defender still caught him, against Southampton he couldn't outrun the CB in a foot race it was like he was running in sand, this isn't bad form it's getting old and there is no reverse of it
He had a period like this last season when he also looked completely finished, then kicked on and scored a lot of goals.
No one is saying he's getting younger, or that he's still as good as he used to be. However, he's still good enough to score goals and I'm pretty sure things will improve for him few more months into the season.
Very technical players like Modric and Messi can still play well because they don't rely that much in their physical attributes. CR7 is not a proper striker eitheir, his natural position is that of a false winger. Starting from the side and going to the center to shoot. You need to get pass players to do that but he can't do it anymore.
Of course. Everything is predictable now. The pace is gone. Can't dribble, hasn't been able to for a while now.
Inch perfect crosses are the only way he can threaten now.
Inch perfect crosses are the only way he can threaten now.
Ive voted yes, though it seems a bit harsh. I’m sure he’ll have moments, games even, but I don’t believe he’ll ever be the player he was. It’s just the facts of human biology.
Think it's tactical discipline he lacks and maybe also selflessness. He can do more but he'd just rather be a poacher with a free role. No longer has the quality to justify either. He also isn't a natural CF. That much is painfully evident in his general play.
You can only value someone based on their output and as he's the main striker, unless he's scoring 20+ goals a season, then he's pointless.
I never wanted him to come back. I knew it would end up in a similar situation to Sanchez. A player who you could see was in decline and without the attributes to contribute enough, on a salary like that is just terrible business.
Now we are lumbered with someone we can't shift, who doesn't offer much and doesn't really want to be here. The overwhelming majority know he's finished, why Utd never prioritised a striker this summer I'll never know. I know one thing is certain, in January, they'll be desperate to get someone in.
I never wanted him to come back. I knew it would end up in a similar situation to Sanchez. A player who you could see was in decline and without the attributes to contribute enough, on a salary like that is just terrible business.
Now we are lumbered with someone we can't shift, who doesn't offer much and doesn't really want to be here. The overwhelming majority know he's finished, why Utd never prioritised a striker this summer I'll never know. I know one thing is certain, in January, they'll be desperate to get someone in.
Sanchez was terrible basically from day one and was on an expensive contract for years. Ronaldo was our top scorer last season and his contract ends at the end of this season, so at worst we have one underperforming season to handle. So I think the two things are very different.
It's too early to tell. He's only had a couple of starts, and didn't have a preseason. It's entirely possible, even likely, that he's still rusty and that he's going to get better with more playing time. But he sure isn't looking like much right now. Not very good when he tries to participate in build-up play either.
If he can adapt his game to a poaching one, a la RvN, he could still be incredible finisher. He got a killer eye for goal
Its becoming apparent that his legs are going. Playing him for an 45-60 minutes maximum seems the best option. It’s possible we could just utilise him solely as a dead ball specialist.
He was finished in his last season at Juventus. I told then, I will tell again, buying Ronaldo set the team's development back by a season or two.
He looks properly done. Ronaldo's lost a yard of pace he couldn't afford to lose. There have already been a few occasions this season when a CB has caught Ronaldo up after having a couple of yards headstart on the defender.
Ronaldo should be a final 15-20 minutes guy if we're hoping for a goal. Same way it should've been for the majority of last season too. If he's not happy with that he can try engineering a move for himself in January.
Ronaldo should be a final 15-20 minutes guy if we're hoping for a goal. Same way it should've been for the majority of last season too. If he's not happy with that he can try engineering a move for himself in January.
If it's purely a scoring goals question, Ronaldo will score some goals. This team full of creators will try to feed him and he has the natural talent to make a few of those chances count. It's the net effect he has on the whole team performance that convinces me that he's definitely not a top player any more. Even with last season's haul of goals, I wouldn't have classed him as a top player due to the deterioration of his all round play.
I hope he does hit some goal scoring form and ETH figures out the best kinds of games to take advantage of that without it having an net negative effect on the team. That said, I really suspect he'll find scoring a bit harder with ETH sticking to his guns regarding what he expects from the team off and on the ball. He really came into his own after RR abandoned his pressing approach and Ronaldo could save his energy. In those first weeks of RR when Ronaldo was attempting to press along with the rest of the team, he looked exactly like this.
I hope he does hit some goal scoring form and ETH figures out the best kinds of games to take advantage of that without it having an net negative effect on the team. That said, I really suspect he'll find scoring a bit harder with ETH sticking to his guns regarding what he expects from the team off and on the ball. He really came into his own after RR abandoned his pressing approach and Ronaldo could save his energy. In those first weeks of RR when Ronaldo was attempting to press along with the rest of the team, he looked exactly like this.
Losing one to Johnny Evans was a surprise
I think he will still score goals but he will need to change how he plays the game once more, become more of a traditional 9. Rely on crosses in to the box and smart movement. The one thing that has been glaringly obvious so far this season is that he doesn’t have the pace to out run people like he used to.
Be it confidence or just him realising he can no longer burst past people, he seems to be letting it effect what he does on the pitch. Stuck in some Sort of limbo. That and given the performance Tuesday just terribly out of form. Ball was just bouncing off of him.
Terrible to say it but as a sub coming on later in games might Be the way to get the best out of him.
Be it confidence or just him realising he can no longer burst past people, he seems to be letting it effect what he does on the pitch. Stuck in some Sort of limbo. That and given the performance Tuesday just terribly out of form. Ball was just bouncing off of him.
Terrible to say it but as a sub coming on later in games might Be the way to get the best out of him.
I didnt say he wasnt to blame. But that doesnt mean he is finished.....?