That old body needs to take up golf, or bridge.
Do you believe Ronaldo is finished as a top level player?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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I think he can be a useful sub for us this season, but nowt more
He had 0 pre season and he is doing it in live game time.
So silly to write him of while we know exactly haw far behind he is in preparation.
So silly to write him of while we know exactly haw far behind he is in preparation.
Of course he's finished as a top level player, but that doesn't mean he can't continue to contribute to a top level team.
I still think Ronaldo can easily reach double figures this season, but against the top opposition in the PL, I think he's best as an impact sub. EL and cups is his starting level on current form, but question will he how willing he is to accept that role.
It is worth pointing out though, I thought this around Christmas last year and well into the new year. Then he scored against Brighton and for a few months looked as lethal as any striker in the league. While I do think he's done at the top level, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him hit form again and score plenty of goals this season.
We cannot underestimate how well this guy has looked after himself, but I've noticed a definite drop in his footwork and speed of movement - even last season he had that initial burst of pace. Whether that's time catching up or lack of sharpness due to no pre-seaeon, time will tell.
I still think Ronaldo can easily reach double figures this season, but against the top opposition in the PL, I think he's best as an impact sub. EL and cups is his starting level on current form, but question will he how willing he is to accept that role.
It is worth pointing out though, I thought this around Christmas last year and well into the new year. Then he scored against Brighton and for a few months looked as lethal as any striker in the league. While I do think he's done at the top level, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him hit form again and score plenty of goals this season.
We cannot underestimate how well this guy has looked after himself, but I've noticed a definite drop in his footwork and speed of movement - even last season he had that initial burst of pace. Whether that's time catching up or lack of sharpness due to no pre-seaeon, time will tell.
He can be finished anytime as he is already 37, and will turn 38 in few months.
But let’s not forget the fact he has missed the whole preseasons (which is down to his own fault to be fair). We have seen Casemiro struggling here even when he has played through the whole preseason with Real. We have also seen Antony struggling to get himself more involved in the game too, even he has his preseasons with Ajax, and just missing a few training session there.
But let’s not forget the fact he has missed the whole preseasons (which is down to his own fault to be fair). We have seen Casemiro struggling here even when he has played through the whole preseason with Real. We have also seen Antony struggling to get himself more involved in the game too, even he has his preseasons with Ajax, and just missing a few training session there.
The service thing is just the limited striker fallacy. It's no one's fault that the bar is impossibly high for what counts as a clear cut chance for Ronaldo. Sancho, Rashford, Eriksen, bruno don't look starved of supply, even Dalot. Everyone is scoring and assisting. The supply isn't holding him back, he's holding the suppliers back. It's strenuous enough that he has generally awful chemistry with everyone without poor touch and finishing compounding matters.
I'm actually just glad to have watched yesterday's game and realised they finally stopped forcing everything to him. That Sancho goal was the kind of attacking service that would have been wasted on Ronaldo.
We haven't scored many this season though. We are a fairly low event team in attack at the moment. We have 8 goals in 6 games. You can't really blame Ronaldo for that when he's not been playing.
He is well past his best. He is not good enough to be a starter for us. This season, he is yet to prove that he is useful even as a super sub in the prem and EL. So, yes. He is done as a top player.
Yeah, no, this is just collapsing our season into the same block of form to avoid unflattering context. We aren't high scoring but the service thing isn't why he's sucking. The team is still producing. They aren't the ones bringing him down.
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It depends on where you draw the line. He's certainly not gonna win any Ballon d'Ors or be a serious contender for that matter. He's not gonna be a starter for a top 5 team in the world either.
But he's still good enough to score 20 goals in a top league. And I have no doubt that he can pull off one or two world class performances per season. He still has that in him.
Is this enough to be considered a top level player? That's up to your definition. In any case, we're witnessing the beginning of the end I think.
But he's still good enough to score 20 goals in a top league. And I have no doubt that he can pull off one or two world class performances per season. He still has that in him.
Is this enough to be considered a top level player? That's up to your definition. In any case, we're witnessing the beginning of the end I think.
I've not made him out to be something he is not. He is still a good premier league striker, he is massively off the pace at the moment, but the level of disrespect is disgusting.
His standard has been so high for so many years, it is unreasonable to believe he can sustain that at his age. He is no longer the player he was but he is still useful in certain games if he can accept that himself. It is like watching Rooney in his last year with us, the touch has gone, the anticipation is still there but the body just refuses to move as fast. It is kinda sad really watching him fail. On the positive note, he seems to be very popular amongst the younger players, so if he can accept his bit part playing role, there is so much our players can still learn from him.
I think the window for blaming no pre-season is firmly shut now. Some are acting like he was sitting around twiddling his thumbs all summer – this is a guy who lives the life 24/7, it's just age has finally caught up to him in a big way.
His current performances are worse for the team than even late stages Rooney. At least Wayne could still provide some creativity in patches. Ronaldo is offering close to nothing at the moment and I'm struggling to see him claw it back.
His current performances are worse for the team than even late stages Rooney. At least Wayne could still provide some creativity in patches. Ronaldo is offering close to nothing at the moment and I'm struggling to see him claw it back.
Don't think he's finished but I do think his career path after Madrid was wrong. Should of joined United/PL team AFTER Madrid whilst he still had some of his incredible physical attributes left in him and THEN (now at this age) moved to Serie A.
Moving to the PL at age 36 is ballsy but at that age, surely even he can't expect to dominate.
Moving to the PL at age 36 is ballsy but at that age, surely even he can't expect to dominate.
The only way he's useful is with us creating a shitload of chances for him by bombing balls in the box.
That type of football is long gone though.
That type of football is long gone though.
Maybe they don't. It's a lot more likely that they are carrying out the manager's instructions though.
If they were going against EtH in order to fulfil their fanboy desires I would expect them to get dropped pretty quickly.
It's because Martial is effectively our only striker. We played Eriksen as a false 9 in the first game, Ronaldo the next, then Rashford who is a wide forward on the left played there the next few games in the league. Ronaldo but Europa league games. Rashford as a striker only works when there is space to run into, so it's a general problem position while Martial is out. We'd create a lot more with martial in there as he's the only one who can actually hold up the ball.
He's obviously not got the physical attributes that he once had, but I do not believe he finished. I think this is a confidence issue, which is mental to say for a player of Ronaldo's stature and I guess it proves we are all human. There was an instance in the first half where there was a ball into the box and he allowed it to bounce which let the defender back in, this had nothing to do with his physical attributes and more to do with his confidence to take the touch and shoot.
I'm guessing the fact no one paid up for him in the summer has knocked him a little bit and he has maybe got a little self doubt creeping in. Ronaldo needs to rediscover the energy which saw him rebound from the world cup in 2006 to shut up the critics. I believe he is perfectly capable of having an Indian summer with us, to earn himself an extension or a move elsewhere.
I'm guessing the fact no one paid up for him in the summer has knocked him a little bit and he has maybe got a little self doubt creeping in. Ronaldo needs to rediscover the energy which saw him rebound from the world cup in 2006 to shut up the critics. I believe he is perfectly capable of having an Indian summer with us, to earn himself an extension or a move elsewhere.
I don't think he should be starting for us anymore. He's physically still a specimen but is slower, doesn't jump as high, and doesn't fit the pressing style that ETH is trying to implement.
The problem is, I don't think he's a super sub either. I'm much less convinced he will get us a goal when we need one late in a match than I am if he has the majority of the match to get us a goal, excluding penalties of course.
This will be his last season with us and maybe he will move on in January.
The problem is, I don't think he's a super sub either. I'm much less convinced he will get us a goal when we need one late in a match than I am if he has the majority of the match to get us a goal, excluding penalties of course.
This will be his last season with us and maybe he will move on in January.
If he moves to the Bundesliga, Portuguese or Ligue 1 - he should be able to add another season to his books.
He isn’t exactly making life easier for himself in the PL playing under possession based tactics as well.
He isn’t exactly making life easier for himself in the PL playing under possession based tactics as well.
I agree with that sentiment, Ronaldo deeply unsettled the way the team is able to play football as a team. For all his goals, the overall effort was different, ultimately a negative one.
However, I dont belive that turning Ronaldo away was ever an option for the club. The fans wold have lost their absolute shit if they did not let him return home, and Im not sure he would have even survived the immediate colossal negativity that alone would have meant for him personally and as a club. It was always a lose/lose situation for the club, but Ole especially.
We opened the league with 4W1D in the first 5. Ronaldo was benched ahead of the Everton game to a ton of criticism. We lead 1-0 at half time. Ronaldo gets subbed on with half an hour to play, Maguire gives away the ball and the game ends 1-1. For me, that game is the start of the spiral that cost Ole the job, and no amount of vibes was able to overcome. Sir Alex being recorded after the game stating "you always start your best players" as a form of criticism obviously didnt help. Its however a little bit ironic to me that criticism for NOT starting Ronaldo was levied after losing WHEN subbing on Ronaldo. Ronaldo himself didnt cost us the game of course, but he was certainly on the pitch for it.
Admittedly I was completely caught up in the moment and was gleeful when it had been announced we signed Ronaldo.
Now, that's interesting.
I would absolutely love to hear ETH's thoughts on how to use Ronaldo.
In fact, that's something the useless journos who have access to him every bloody presser should ask about - in detail.
What we know is that ETH has standards in terms of off-the-ball work, and he expects his players to meet those. Ronaldo has been pressing more than he did last season in his appearances so far - significantly more, even. So it seems that he has been following instructions in that regard.
He's been pretty shite at it, looking like an old wreck mostly, but it does seem as though he's trying to some degree.
(I haven't actually checked his stats very closely - but I do believe his pressing stats have gone up).
What is actually ment with «top level»? He’s far from one of the best anymore, but besides the obvious best teams he could do well anywhere imo.
As a super sub when we need a goal against a tired defence he’s fine.
Thank you, Ronnie. We will never forget.
you talk about the players being "fanboys"... well maybe they see Ronaldo in training every day and are better placed to appreciate his talents/worth ethic etc
Right, but as an observer of the game I can see with my own eyes that he's playing badly and not always the best option for a pass - no inside knowledge required there.
I was desperate for us to get rid this summer but it seems we could not find a buyer. His form so far this season I feel is going to also play him out of a move in January - what team (in the CL if he is still demanding this) will be looking at his performances so far and thinking he will be the guy to fire us through the CL knockouts? I know he has a ridiculous record in that competition but surely at this stage clubs will have to be looking at the performances, not the stats.
Not following your reasoning here: pre-season is absolutely vital for any professional; game time is a very different proposition and the two don't mix, or the mix as well as oil and water.
If he actively chose to not have a pre-season, it would obviously bleed - badly - into the season proper, how could it not?
He's 37 and will be 38 by the time the season ends. Absolutely no player retains peak form at that age. The fall is obviously greater when it's from such stratospheric heights. Watch Messi in Ligue 1 and even he's a shadow of what he was. He will look better this season as he gets fitter, but this is a natural decline. Only downhill from here.
Obviously they wont be at peak form but Ronaldo and Messi were so good that even without peak form they are still very good. Compared to other players they are still good, compared to their old forms they are not that great. Ronaldo seems past that now though since he doesnt even look that good compared to other high level players. Although Ronaldo has been written of before and he came back from that, hopefully he can have a resurgence somewhere during this season and have some really good games.
I do believe Messi will still look fine as a player by 37 or 38. Since Messi his main qualities like vision, technique and ball control wont really deteriorate like Ronaldo his main qualities like speed, acceleration and just the power he once had.
I'd actually argue the opposite.
The wheels were coming off at the end of the prior season. Ronaldo signing gave him and the club and initial lift that probably bought him another month.
Despite the fact he was a great player, Ole was not or ever will be a top coach. He just gets an extraordinary amount of excuses made for the poor overall job he did.
The problem we have now with Ronaldo is that he is best left to the bench except in very rare cases. Yet he himself will not want that to happen so it will be interesting to see if he gets away in Jan or not. Its ending his career faster by not playing so for him its Catch 22.
Edit: Ronnie is.
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At some point he has to catch up, as the ultra professional is he not? Especially when there are so many postponed games .
He chose to miss pre-season and he's been back long enough, this excuse is getting pathetic.
Would be cool if he joined Sporting, no? You guys look good this season
Pre-season takes what? 6-8 weeks of gruelling work to get professional footballers back into match fitness to even be able to take on the onslaught of games at full output. During the season proper, the only thing they get to do is recover between games with the conditioning they’ve built up throughout the pre-season providing them with base fitness to cope.
It’s incredibly difficult to get up to speed once the season starts, particularly so for older players; it’s a very real thing that a poor - or no - pre-season will cause most players umpteen problems once the games come thick and fast. If Ronaldo is jobbing fitness and trying to get fit in-game it has very real potential to wreck a good portion of his season alone. Even if he is really done this time, zero pre-season will expedite the process multiple-fold so it’s not a falsehood or excuse in and of itself to acknowledge it was a really stupid thing for him to do when he was one of the players that would need to be fit and ready as he could be to take on more load than he’s had to in years.