Once again, I'll have absolutely no problem with your stance if you were consistent. However getting borderline personal with us when you're going to be watching a tournament that multiple people died while helping set up is hypocrisy at the highest level.
What can we do to boycott the oil clubs?
- Thread starter Ole'sattheWheel
- Start date
Not sure what you’re talking about really.
Watching the World Cup on TV is the same as supporting a club who has an owner involved in corruption, war and murder?
It does feel as though you say these things to satisfy your own conscience to be honest. Feel guilty?
So to clarify, in your mind, anyone who's been associated with Chelsea from 2003 onwards have no morals?
I think that’s a question you should be asking yourself?
Perhaps it a case of not really asking questions as to where the money came from? Or turning a blind eye so long as it brought success?
I recall you were very defensive about Roman on the Caf during the Ukraine war and kept bringing up Mason Greenwood.
They like to post sweeping statements about everything. It’s futile to argue or debate with someone who only sees what they want to see. Still it would be interesting to see how morally just fans of these historically big clubs would be if they were in Newcastles shoes. Would United fans protest for evil or be happy to stay with incompetent. I’m sure we would see some protesters.
You're the one implying it so it's on you to break the habit of a lifetime and actually the answer the question as you've made me curious.
Is it just the fans? Do the players and coaches fall into that category too? The tealady? Where is your line?
One things for sure is I certainly know how Kier Starmer feels after a PMQ now!
This is like suggesting that a wrestler who gets massively jacked up for years, then eases off for a bit hasn't benefitted from the previous massive illegitimate doping.
I’m also curious to see what your take was on Abramovich when he first arrived until he left?
As I mentioned you deflected away from it when the Ukraine War broke out and used similar whataboutery techniques as you are here.
So what was your stance? Did you ask any moral questions when Roman took over? Did this change as time went on? How did you feel during the Ukraine War?
Just be honest as it would be interesting hearing this perspective.
Again I’d be interested on your thoughts on Roman. What was your stance and did you question where the money came from or were you just happy to see it bring success?
You can't dodge questions like a tory leader and then expect yours answered.
I will answer yours if you answer mine, and properly, not some long windish "depends" cop out.
The answer to my question very much depends on what you say. I don’t know what your stance was on him yet.
Do I think there are people with questionable morals involved with Chelsea from when Roman took over? Absolutely. I’m sure many inside the club knew of his connections and didn’t care who was paying them handsomely.
In terms of fans I’m sure many had the blinkers on and didn’t show an interest in knowing a great deal about him and his background. Success was more important.
Is ignorance of a subject as bad?
I'm just one of millions of people that have been assosiated with Chelsea in the last 19 years be it a supporter, employee, player etc.
Surely your whole opinion on millions of people isn't based on what i think?
You keep deflecting.
Are you going to tell us your own views on Roman Abramovich from when he took over to when he was forced to leave?
I’m sure your opinion will be mirrored by many others so just be honest.
No I'm not (and even if I was you of all people calling it out is just
).I've made it very clear that I will answer when my question has been answered properly, not with some frankly insulting hogwash that you need my opinion to fully form your opinion on Chelsea fans, players, coaches, employees of the last 19 years.
I'll copy and paste the initial question to make it easier, Is it just the fans? Do the players and coaches fall into that category too? The tealady? Where is your line?
When you've answered that properly you'll get the same but if you don't I will stop replying as it's becoming clear this is another one of your childish baiting games.
I can see you’ve literally this minute just hidden your post history so no one can see it.
Very suspicious.
Fortunately I managed to have a quick look at what you posted in the Roman Abramovich thread and you still wouldn’t give an opinion then and posted everything you could to deflect away from it (see the few snippets above).
I’m not sure why you were unable to say then as you are now. Then rather then say you go and hide your profile and posting history…
My memory was correct. You spent the whole thread trying to deflect away from Roman and what was going on.
Genuinely no idea why you do this, along with the whataboutism, when there were Chelsea posters like @WeePat and @TheMagicFoolBus who handled it perfectly.
I know I said I wasn't going to reply but have to address this to the rest to the forum.
I haven't "just done it" I did it months ago. And why would i do it for this purpose when you could just do an advanced keyword search in about 30 seconds?
I know we have had our differences in the past but i really thought better of you than a liar!
When the discussion is about morals then the fact that people like you only have them when it suits you is very much relevant to the discussion.
Enjoy the world cup!
You just did it as I literally just seen it happen
and yes. I added the other quotes using the word search. Again, not sure what you’ve got to hide?
I assume you’re still not going to say your stance around Roman back then and now. I can only assume that is because you’re embarrassed to admit it otherwise I’m not sure why you’d go to such lengths to deflect away from it.
You bring all this on yourself you really do!
In fairness, I still have seen no actual evidence of Roman being attached to any attacks on Ukraine or the other things you are implying. I posted the the stories awhile back but the first lawsuits against parties defaming Evraz and sanctioning them without evidence or cause has already hit the courts.
If you want to hate Abramovich for simply being Russian I suppose that is your right, but the SOLE reason Britain gave for sanctioning Roman was Evraz supplying armor for tanks etc. This has been show. To be patently false. What makes it almost humorous is that average age of tanks and armor in use in Ukraine is nearly 35 years, much older than Evraz’s existence even. And now they have turned to the T62’s which are like, 50 years old.
In light of the court cases, entities in Europe have changed their strategy from “they DID provide” to “its theoretically possible they COULD have switched to producing armor grade steel”.
You didn’t want a high profile Russian owning a high profile London Club. Understandable. But Roman understood this as well, and had already engaged the Raine group when sanctions came.
Romans original energy acquisitions came through an American and European programs. He has never been charged with crimes until Russians implied he used criminal ties … after Putin declared him a “Westernized enemy”
Intetestingly, According to a Ruether’s article from yesterday, British authorities have admitted they broke the law in the raids to find those documents, which they went after on RUSSIAN tips, and have now agreed to pay fines and damages related to seizure of documents that now appear to be fakes.
So while I AM grateful for the new ownership at Chelsea, the way Britain has lied and conspired with Russian intelligence themselves has been disgraceful.
“Everybody knows he’s dirty” is a thing for message boards. It should not be a standard for actual countries and legal entities.
Statement from Abramovich attorney: “Mr Abramovich has always acted in accordance with the law. We are pleased that the Jersey police have conceded in relation to these unlawful and unfounded searches”
The entire 7 billion pound freeze, which Abramovich grouped his assets together voluntarily for, is now apparently in doubt altogether. The irony of which is astounding to a degree.
The US is probably still seething that you hamstrung a potentially strong piece in helping to take Putin down…. Over a soccer team.
They are even less amused that you damaged and endangered a very good, upstanding global company, including nearly 400k jobs in the US with accusations your government KNEW to be untrue.
It seems you still have an issue in renouncing Roman too.
Instead of coming out with lots of excuses and reasons to rationalise it just answer the question.
Did you as a fan have any concerns morally about Abramovich and his money when it came to Chelsea? Did that change during the course of his ownership or was it just a case of turning a blind eye due to the success?
I've told you from the start I'll answer after you have answered my question but for some reason you refuse too. Not sure why tbh, it's not like the answer will require you to cover why you will be turning into a class A hypocrite in 9 days time.You just did it as I literally just seen it happen
and yes. I added the other quotes using the word search. Again, not sure what you’ve got to hide?
I assume you’re still not going to say your stance around Roman back then and now. I can only assume that is because you’re embarrassed to admit it otherwise I’m not sure why you’d go to such lengths to deflect away from it.
You bring all this on yourself you really do!
You’re a very childish poster but then I’ve suspected for a long time you’re not here to engage in genuine debate. More for bragging rights following United’s decline post Sir Alex.
As I’ve shown from your quotes posts you were one of the few Chelsea fans on the forum to refuse to renounce Abramovich and continued to use whataboutism and deflect to hide from what was going on.
Id have more respect for you if you just came out and said;
“to be honest I didn’t really care where the money came from I was just relieved the club was bought out and success came”
or even;
“I knew the money was illegal and the whole thing dodgy but the success brought me so much joy I didn’t give that, or the wider implications, much thought”
It’s really not as much as a big deal as you keep making out.
This one is odd even for you.
I think i have probably made about 20 posts in the "Manchester United" section in my time here and very infrequent visits outside of that (happy to have the accurate number confirmed by a mod) and probably about half of them was in a thread with Tammy Abraham in the title.
One thing I do always seem to spot on my rare visits though is you getting aggressive with your own fans who disagree with you and/or challenge you, seems to be a common occurrence.
But you've successfully deflected your hypocrisy and refusal to answer a question so well done I guess.
One thing I seem to spot with your posting is you deflect away from everything then when you get pulled on something, accuse other posters of bullying you and becoming personal. The covid and football thread along with the Abramovich one two prime example
Reoccurring theme it seems.
Again I’d have more respect for you if you were just honest.
You mean Covid and football thread where I said the restart would be safe and practical to do and got it completely spot on while you said the opposite and got it totally wrong?
Strangely enough you and all the other suspects that gave me grief for that opinion were nowhere to be seen when it got to August and the success of the restart was being discussed.
And I'll have more respect for you if you admitted your moral opinions were selective (as you proven with your admission you will be watching the world cup).
I’ll admit I will watch the World Cup though. I’m not skirting about the matter and deflecting away from it.
Yet here we are again with you and your inability to give a straight answer about Roman Abramovich, his money and your club.
After you've done just that about the Covid point (that you brought up) and your tendency to lash out at your fans.
As I keep saying, when you answer my initial question I'll answer yours, why are you refusing too?
Trying to bang on about morals in football when you're going to be watching an event people died to help setup makes you a hypocrite, no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.
Again you won’t answer about Roman.
Bit pathetic at this point.
No wonder you’re hiding your posting history
As I've made clear multiple times I'm ready to answer once you answer the very simple question I asked first.Again you won’t answer about Roman.
Bit pathetic at this point.
No wonder you’re hiding your posting history
Who associated with Chelsea in the last 19 years do you believe are immoral? Is it just the fans? Do the players and coaches fall into that category too? The tealady? Where is your line?
It's not like you have to cover in this answer why you're footballing related morals loosen and tighten when it suits.
Dan this was what I commented on.
I suggested that there would be more of a protest from the fanbase of a United or Liverpool than smaller clubs like City, Newcastle and Chelsea.
I say this because United and Liverpool are steeped in history, tradition and success. Of course some fans would welcome it but there would be protests at the stadium and involving supporters associations. It wouldn’t be ‘very few’ as you suggested.
You then went on a tirade about the World Cup and everyone being hypocritical. Just as you brought up Mason Greenwood, Rio Ferdinand, Mata, Matic and Diego Simeone in the Roman Abramovich thread. Essentially you want to hide behind other things to try and justify your own views and opinion. That suggests to me you’re not only uncomfortable with it but you’re uncomfortable with yourself and need reassurance that you are correct.
You clearly don’t have an issue with dirty money, which is fine, but just be transparent about it as opposed to doing what you always do and hiding from the issue.
Call them out on their homophobia, human rights abuses, anti-democratic & misogynistic views. Reality is the owners of PSG, Newcastle & Man City are gulf state dictators. Newcastle's owner literally ordered the murder and dismemberment of a journalist. Keep remanding Newcastle of this. Ask Man City fans what they think of execution of homosexuals.
We make life too comfortable for them. They are taking blood money in form the backdoor and presenting a false front.
We make life too comfortable for them. They are taking blood money in form the backdoor and presenting a false front.
I will answer your question, as I have already.
Id say anyone who knowingly helps fund such things, or profits from it themselves, have questionable morals.
Call me a hypocrite if you like for watching the World Cup on the television. If that makes you feel better?
I wouldn’t go to Qatar though or attend in person.
And as I said, nothing "deflective" about pointing out obvious hypocrisy.
Ill give you a little snippet into what I'll say if/when you finally grow a pair and answer my question, I had no issue with the sanctions and you won't find any post that contradicts that on your inevitable upcoming key word search.
I can agree with that and point out the outrageous levels of double standards you and others are displaying, sometimes, just sometimes, things aren't actually that binary.
No no the question I asked was what were your thoughts on RA when he took over Chelsea? In relation to where the money was coming from? And then how it all transpired? Did you care? Turn a blind eye?
I didn’t ask specifically about sanctions.
I asked as a Chelsea fan when he bought you out did you question the money?
I was a kid, so at the time no.
As time went by I started learning a bit but here's my stance (at the risk of being accused of deflection again). I'm watching the world cup despite how awful it was created, I eat meat despite what happens in making it amoung other things. You may call it simplistic but in my eyes I had a choice to go all straight laced or just carry on with life, for me getting all upset and outraged about one thing while endorsing another isn't an option, hence why I bring up things like this world cup or Milans "sugar daddy" being largely and conviently brushed under the carpet.
Does that make me a bad person? Got a feeling you're about to tell me!
Strangely enough the most genuine person I've ever meet is a Milan fan, would he a bad person in your eyes for supporting them in the Berlusconi era?
And that's exactly why I brought up the Mata and Matic thing.
I was genuinely curious as to whether you/whoever I was talking to thought less of them and didn't cheer them on as hard as the rest because they accepted employment under Roman?
Why do you think the rich buggers don't love the game? Have you ever been an oil baron from middle east before?
You have not provided any evidence that there should be a moral conundrum with having money provided by Roman.
I, in counter, have shown proof the British government lied in its efforts to find a reason to sanction him.
You said he was a criminal, murderer, etc, etc …. But there is no basis for any of that.
In fact he was a Yeltsin guy. The “crimes” Russians (Putin in particular) accused him of was conspiring with Western powers to take what should rightfully belong to the people. Translation: capitalism is evil and the state should re-seize its energy companies…. Which they did. Our intelligence assets had Roman more likely ti be a target of Putin than any sort of Ally.
Just using common sense for a moment, Abramovich was the definition of a globalist. His children are natural born citizens of three different countries. He played a major role in taking the first Russian company (Evraz) global, and made it the first globally traded company founded in Russia. He is, by definition, the natural enemy of everything Putin believes in.
I won’t get in depth into having poison thrown in his face trying to negotiate for the Ukranians, the fact that he’s Ukrainian by birth, not Russian, or the fact that he had cooperated with Western intelligence since before the invasion even began, or even that he was supposedly a fantastically popular owner and that people lived working for him.
Instead just mention ONE thing Chelsea fans should be ashamed —> with proof. One thing. You keep listing atrocious acts “in general” as if they are given.
After that we can start discussing the Glazers WELL documented relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
Appreciate you as always but I don't think that's right to lump me in with @WeePat, who has been spot on consistently. I had some bad takes for sure - definitely was guilty of a total lack of objectivity at times in terms of what I found credible. Hindsight is 20/20 though - and of course now I'd unequivocally say I was wrong in many instances.