Europe was the most affected by the WW 2, as more than 90% of the deaths came from Soviet Union, Germany, and UK.
Gianni Infantino loses the plot (WC 2002 Edition)
- Thread starter Sigma
- Start date
This thread is a car crash.
How can anyone be for this farce, on so many levels.. Masks have slipped big time. So many strawmans e.g. Alcohol sales. They wouldn't have won the bid, if they had said "no booze" on the ticket, no matter how much they bribed.
Where's our summer world cup with aircon stadiums?
Infantino is full of it.
How can anyone be for this farce, on so many levels.. Masks have slipped big time. So many strawmans e.g. Alcohol sales. They wouldn't have won the bid, if they had said "no booze" on the ticket, no matter how much they bribed.
Where's our summer world cup with aircon stadiums?
Infantino is full of it.
Newbs system is going well
Without even going into historical events, it's quite likely that Fortress Europe has killed much more than Qatar.
https://www.iom.int/news/more-5000-deaths-recorded-european-migration-routes-2021-iom
In order to host a world cup?
You do understand that the rainbow flags are just symbols for a specific minority, one which happens to get discriminated and downright killed in certain countries? So it's not really about "waving flags while drinkin' booze". And why would someone whose ancestors were eventually involved in setting the world on fire not interested in peacefully making the world a better place for others to live in? Strange concept if you ask me. None of us posters here were directly involved in the WW1 or WW2 nor the colonization era so why should we shut up again? And it's not about being high and mighty, there are strong discussions about how to run our countries and where things go wrong all the time. Every single day.
It'll be lost on them, I'm afraid
No.
Qatar relies on S/SE Asian and African indentured labour to maintain their standard of living. Europe exports its death to its armed and walled borders.
I just get annoyed when people say "trying to put things right" for a continent which ruled and exploited the world for 2 centuries, profited from it, and is now "putting things right" by ... pulling up the ladder.
Sorry, but you can't say Tony Blair was a Tory just because he did bad stuff.
He was Labour all along, and decided to invade the Middle East along with USA, and he was heavily supported back then... not much different with Democrat Barack Obama bombing kids in Syria/Libya and Clinton doing a mess in Yugoslavia, both receiving heavy support from the american population.
That's a different conversation for a different thread, mate. There's two different (big) issues there... Let's not conflate the two.
I am against slavery, but I’m more against the wrong people being against slavery. It has to be the right people criticizing it, otherwise I rather prefer the slaves to remain enslaved.
Nasser Al Khater was complaining as recently as one month ago that people were being "unfair" on Qatar and that the idea that alcohol would be restricted was a "misconception."
You are disrespectful if you think the Qataris are going to do a thing they swear they won't do. But if they end up doing it, you are disrespectful to complain because they have the right to do whatever they want.
You are disrespectful if you think the Qataris are going to do a thing they swear they won't do. But if they end up doing it, you are disrespectful to complain because they have the right to do whatever they want.
Those migrants die mostly in the sea after traffickers (which are mostly turkish) put them on route without any protection, and only care about profits.
So countries should be allowed to brutally enslave and kill people until they get their infrastructure right? Just to be clear
Sorry. How are the USA, specifically, hypocritical here? Spell it out for us.
I have my reservations about the US political system but I need more information .
The west of course has done bad things in the past, but that can not excuse what Qatar are doing today. I cannot be held responsible for what my ancestors may have done, but I can damn well hold the Qatar powers that be to account for their actions TODAY.
Infantino seems to have forgotten that two wrongs do not make a right. He needs to try and stop defending the utterly indefensible.
What Qatar has done is basically gone back to Ancient Egypt and the building of the pyramids.
They hate slavery, but according to their flawed logic only micronesians, irish, lithuanians,samoans, and very other few should complain about slavery, cause if your ethnicity was involved in slavery centuries ago, then you can't complain about slavery in modern times.
That also means arabs can't complain about slavery either, they probably traded more slaves than anybody.
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So how is saying “lads, maybe don’t with the whole slavery thing” pulling up the ladder then?
Air strikes in the middle east killing innocent people for a start.
Yes...as any Economics 101 student can tell you, when you make something illegal or put a lot of regulations, all you do is incentivise illegal (dangerous, unregulated) activity. There's a whole chain of treaties and walls which are the reason why these smugglers are in business.
Infantino, the former ginger, doesn't care about anybody, he is a just a rich official protecting the people who pay him a lot of money.
If he has to compare getting bullied in high school(for being a ginger) to migrants dying while building stadiums, he will...and he literally did.
Worshipping money can make people say stupid stuff, so they can keep the money grab.
That bald fecker isn't different than Blatter after all.
'Fraid not.
They've got some skeletons in their closet too.
I'm sure we can find something to pin on the others there as well.
Fact is that conquest and enslavement of "foreign" people (ranging from tiny tribes to large nations) is something you'll find throughout history in every nook and cranny of the world.
They're still a newbie with only two likes in 175 posts so I'd say it's going ok.
I like her. More of this please.
As I said, my problem is with those minimising European wrongs when criticising others.
I think Qatar and many other ME states deserve all this criticism. I also think this world cup is the safest and least consequential way to criticise them. Because of oil, they get no meaningful pushback on labour rights or war crimes or women's rights or LGBT rights or ....
It's a very very selective condemnation (only Qatar, not the rest, only for the World Cup, not for anything else) of long-standing practices of countries that are mostly in the west's orbit!
Not even the point of the debate.
I didn't.
And quite frankly I'm getting bored of these polemic whataboutisms. Nobody can give a toss about something because of what happened 100 years ago. It's the logic of a drunk. And not even a drunk that has any decent logic when they are sober. It's lazy and nonsensical. And quite a bit racist too.
Yeah, I'm sure about that.
I think nobody is free of something wrong done by ancestors, the standards of what's wrong and not is completely different now.
Centuries ago slavery was legal, and "conquer and take" was the most common foreign policy.
In North America the native tribes themselves were killing each other(including children and women) for territory before the brits arrived.
Also Lithuania have had slavery in the past, slavery was done away with 1588 offically, but serfdom more or less is the same thing and that lasted until 1861.
Honestly your not going to find many, if any (perhaps those micro nations in pacific are the exception) countries that have not had a hand in slavery at some point.
Terrible shit went on here, like really awful abuse of the power dynamic terror.
But way back we did quite a bit of piracy and slavery too. This is not about progress and inclusivity, not some crass nationalistic game of moral Top Trumps.
Europe have a horrific history, there’s no way around it, and many governments over here are jumping into bed with the likes of Israel, Qatar, Saudi Arabia etc… who continue to use the horrific practices that has built much of Europe, that’s absolutely true. At the same time however, many Europeans also protest the behaviour of their own governments in doing so, so I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make in pretending this is only a World Cup thing.
The likes of China, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc etc etc do get condemnation, all the time. They RIGHTLY get condemnation, just as Europe’s history RIGHTLY gets condemned. Just as the USA rightly faces condemnation on women’s rights, on racism, on ongoing imperialism.
None of this explains your “pulling the ladder up” comment mind, which very strongly implies that they should be able to do what Europe used to to catch up which, just no.
With regards to the bolded, the poster almost immediately stated this
And I'm not sure why you've quoted the second, he was talking about Brexit.
As for the selective condemnation, that's the entire point. It's because they're hosting the World Cup, thus the global spotlight. So all in all I'm very confused by your post and what you're trying to say (even if I agree with your comments regarding Europe).
Europe's history is an continuum of atrocity. Well documented. All history is. My question is what have the European horrors, much documented in academia, documentary, fiction and film, got to do with a conversation about human rights issues in Qatar? The only debate should be if it's happening or not surely? Anything else is just mitigation or obfuscation?
To make an omelette you have to break a few eggs.
Well, basically serfdom has always being a thing since society started to get organized and we were not cavemen anymore, and that won't change cause someone has to be in charge of a country/territory anyways, the difference is that now is called modern slavery labour with a piss poor wage.
The US and the UK still exist...
Has nothing to do with finding the dead perpetrators. The US and UK still exist as entities. You just fundamentally grasp how reparations work and who might be responsible for them. We can definitely do something about the past. Reparations have been paid before to various groups.
And yes, it's worth our while to financially right the wrongs of the past. Go ask the descendants of those victims.
Yep.
The idea that you should mind your own business is nonsense too, most of the great revolutions in the world were led by outsiders. The French Revolution was born in the universities and the dining halls of the rich, not the fields. Was Robespierre a hypocrite? The early revolutionaries in Ireland were the educated protestants, not the downtrodden catholics.
As an African, I don't. Here we are.