Big Andy
Bloke
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2003
- Messages
- 34,654
Stops this bulshit
I personally don't think a goalkeeper passing the ball is sophisticated. I just find it boring. I want the most talented players on the ball.I think it is entertaining when teams integrate the keeper in their build up play. I don't want teams to push forward all the time. Prefer sophisticated football over kick'n'rush.
Now that would be interesting.Not full circle obviously, no.
Would never happen but maybe they should do what some 5 aside leagues play where the goalkeeper isn't allowed to pass it back to the player that just gave it them........... That could be fun.
No argument about the rule being a great success.Stops this bulshit
When the opponent plays a high pressing line and your team's back line (including the keeper) finds solutions through quick passing under pressure and then the team has the whole field in front of it, that's one of the best things about football for me. I love watching keepers like Ederson, Neuer or Ter Stegen being integrated into the build up. It also gives you a numerical advantage which means more space for the midfielders and attackers.I personally don't think a goalkeeper passing the ball is sophisticated. I just find it boring. I want the most talented players on the ball.
Which was the aim of the back pass rule.
This doesn’t happen all that much though. Those three keepers are still working in combination with their defensive line to establish a new phase of play. Sometimes this takes so much time, and genuinely does take all of the heat out of the game. That becomes boring as keepers become experts.I love watching keepers like Ederson, Neuer or Ter Stegen being integrated into the build up. It also gives you a numerical advantage which means more space for the midfielders and attackers.
Was that the aim of the back pass rule? Or is that just your preference? (That’s an actual question btw - I don’t actually know). I thought the aim was to stop time wasting, which it has.I personally don't think a goalkeeper passing the ball is sophisticated. I just find it boring. I want the most talented players on the ball.
Which was the aim of the back pass rule.
I've played it before in 5 and 7-a side. You know when outfield players aren't allowed in the area? They often play that rule and it's actually pretty good. The same goes for the outfield player not being able to pass straight to the keeper if he gives it to them.Now that would be interesting.
Not that many examples. Not enough to justify the constant tiki taka between goalkeepers and CB's.not quite the same thing as the ball is still live.
you see plenty of goals where the keeper gets robbed or makes a poor pass and it’s stolen
Well its the same thing. The rule was stop time wasting and speed the game up. Which means the ball with the goalkeeper less and with the actually talented outfield players more.Was that the aim of the back pass rule? Or is that just your preference? (That’s an actual question btw - I don’t actually know). I thought the aim was to stop time wasting, which it has.
I don’t care how much time the keeper spends on the ball if there is genuine jeopardy. One wrong move and you concede. But if you break the press you have a higher likelihood of building a dangerous attack. High risk, high reward. To me, that’s the opposite of boring.
Yeah can't say I've played that rule at 5 a side before.I've played it before in 5 and 7-a side. You know when outfield players aren't allowed in the area? They often play that rule and it's actually pretty good. The same goes for the outfield player not being able to pass straight to the keeper if he gives it to them.
His point is that it's boring. I don't think it is.This doesn’t happen all that much though. Those three keepers are still working in combination with their defensive line to establish a new phase of play. Sometimes this takes so much time, and genuinely does take all of the heat out of the game. That becomes boring as keepers become experts.
The backpass rule change was important, pivotal and successful.
We’d all do well to indulge the spirit of OP’s point though. Keepers are now so good with their feet that passing the ball back to them is a form of ball retention, with close to zero jeopardy.
I can’t find reliable statistics (PL website suggests Peter Schmeichel averaged 0.13 passes per game, for example) but it would be good to see average passes for a keeper in 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010 and 2020.
My main point is that the objective of the backpass rule has been diluted.His point is that it's boring. I don't think it is.
And the objective of the original backpass rule was to make the game less boring. Picking the ball up is a completely different thing. There's much less probability of mistakes and less skill involved. Plus you can only do it in your own box. Keepers these days play very advanced. When you prevent them from being on the ball, you force teams to drop an additional player into the backline, meaning that they lose superiority in midfield or attacking areas - which again means less excitement, more long balls and crosses.My main point is that the objective of the backpass rule has been diluted.
Keepers can't pick it up but I bet they're now on the ball twice as much.
But yes ,I do also find it boring to watch defenders and goalkeepers recycling the ball over and over. Especially when the DM gets involved as well.
Sure the keeper can't pick it up. But as I've said the benefit of that rule change has been almost wiped out because the ball is going back to them so much more in the first place.And the objective of the original backpass rule was to make the game less boring. Picking the ball up is a completely different thing. There's much less probability of mistakes and less skill involved. Plus you can only do it in your own box. Keepers these days play very advanced. When you prevent them from being on the ball, you force teams to drop an additional player into the backline, meaning that they lose superiority in midfield or attacking areas - which again means less excitement, more long balls and crosses.
I mean, I get that people that tune in to watch a football game don't want to see a keeper having the ball in his hands all the time. But in this case, the keeper is playing football as well - passing, sometimes even dribbling and all that stuff.
I thought the objective of the back pass rule was to cut out time wasting where there was nothing the opposition could do when the GK had the ball in their hands. It couldn't be countered. Whereas teams are now free to press GKs and will be rewarded handsomely if successful.My main point is that the objective of the backpass rule has been diluted.
Keepers can't pick it up but I bet they're now on the ball twice as much.
But yes ,I do also find it boring to watch defenders and goalkeepers recycling the ball over and over. Especially when the DM gets involved as well.
If it wouldn't go back to them, it would go back to a CB instead. Only difference being that there's a player less upfront because an on-field player has to drop into the position of the keeper, starting a "chain reaction" of others dropping deeper. The sweeper keeper actually makes the game more attacking, not less. There's a reason the most attack minded teams in the game always look to sign the keepers that are best with a ball at their feet.Sure the keeper can't pick it up. But as I've said the benefit of that rule change has been almost wiped out because the ball is going back to them so much more in the first place.
Great suggestion. Rule changes shouldn't be revolutionary, they should just nudge things in the right direction a bit, and be simple to understand. Whether the problem's big enough to need a rule change I'm not sure, I'd wait a bit yet personally.Not full circle obviously, no.
Would never happen but maybe they should do what some 5 aside leagues play where the goalkeeper isn't allowed to pass it back to the player that just gave it them........... That could be fun.
How many from De Gea this season who is largely agreed to be poor with his feet?You are clearly overestimating the keepers ability with their feet. There are tons of goals directly or indirectly caused by poor passing from the keepers or simply because they panick under pressure and fail to hoof the ball.
At least one:How many from De Gea this season who is largely agreed to be poor with his feet?
Which team even does that?What are people not getting here?
Free kicks provide some of the best goals in football… but we now have obscene amounts of time taken to set them up…. Which is very boring. The sport would benefit from a rule change there I reckon.
Nobody is advocating for the old rule being any good. Nor is anyone suggesting it’s not light years better now.
But it’s definitely boring to see defenders and a keeper pass the ball around for ages. I don’t see how anyone is extracting joy from it, at all.
Exactly. One in twenty odd games. And this from a keeper who is supposed to be poor with the ball.At least one:
Plenty do.Which team even does that?
It’s not even close to being the same, atm it’s just like a defender having the ball, the keeper used to stand there with no intent to play the ball and wait for the striker to come to him, pick it up throw it to another player get it back rinse and repeat.Sure the keeper can't pick it up. But as I've said the benefit of that rule change has been almost wiped out because the ball is going back to them so much more in the first place.
Most of the times the teams do it just to loose possession after the keeper made a most of the times useless long ball. But using the keeper to be a part of the build-up as some teams use it's risky.Exactly. One in twenty odd games. And this from a keeper who is supposed to be poor with the ball.
So we're not talking a lot of goals from keeper ball playing errors. It's hardly the high risk, entertaining stuff.
You're missing the point. I'm not saying we should scrap the backpass rule.It’s not even close to being the same, atm it’s just like a defender having the ball, the keeper used to stand there with no intent to play the ball and wait for the striker to come to him, pick it up throw it to another player get it back rinse and repeat.
I enjoy keepers getting involved, I think I’d genuinely stop watching football if you could back pass again
I mean, entertainment is subjective but I believe most people associate it with goals and a bias for attacking in a football context. So by those metrics, the one team that came to your mind is one of the most entertaining in the world. That should tell you at least something.Plenty do.
I said earlier in this seasons game against us, City completely dominated, yet Ederson made 32 passes in one half.
Watching that game, whilst wiping away my salty tears, I still found myself thinking for all City's ability, that it was still painful watching them circulating the ball around the back and DM. When they're way ahead and completely on top.
Exactly, the keeper plays like a defender effectively. It would make more sense to reduce the amount of players from 11 to 10 if you want to make the game more entertaining than forbidding the keeper to get involved in the build up.It’s not even close to being the same, atm it’s just like a defender having the ball, the keeper used to stand there with no intent to play the ball and wait for the striker to come to him, pick it up throw it to another player get it back rinse and repeat.
I enjoy keepers getting involved, I think I’d genuinely stop watching football if you could back pass again
Who wants football with an extra defender in the penalty area twenty yards behind the rest of the back 4?I mean, entertainment is subjective but I believe most people associate it with goals and a bias for attacking in a football context. So by those metrics, the one team that came to your mind is one of the most entertaining in the world. That should tell you at least something.
Exactly, the keeper plays like a defender effectively. It would make more sense to reduce the amount of players from 11 to 10 if you want to make the game more entertaining than forbidding the keeper to get involved in the build up.
That has nothing to do with the keeper. It's simply that what you claim as slow is the most effective way of playing football. The game has evolved, the kick'n'rush days are over.Who wants football with an extra defender in the penalty area twenty yards behind the rest of the back 4?
What you get then is what we're seeing. Pinball betweem the defenders/goalkeepers.
It works for City, I'm not passing judgement on how effective it is. It strangles the opposition, tires them out, drains them.
But it has slowed the game down, the build up is monotonous. Not what the rule change intended.
I’m not missing the point, the point you are making is just daft.You're missing the point. I'm not saying we should scrap the backpass rule.
But its definitely not just like a defender having the ball. It's the interaction between defender and goalkeeper, the shuffling of the ball between them. That's the bit that's now slowing the game down, negating the initial aim of the rule change to some extent.
That didn't really happen for the first 20 years after the rule change. In that period the defender would have the ball but he'd likely pass forwards and sideways. Going back to the keeper was a last resort. The goalkeeper didn't want it and the defender didn't want to give it him.
To me this is just a way of enforcing your favorite brand of football through the rules. Somebody doesn't like possession football and wants to ditch it this way.I understand what you mean, but your suggestion/solution doesn’t work. In the 1980s teams passed the ball back to the keeper just as much. Instead they could pick the ball up and couldn’t be tackled, leading to some farcical situations and time wasting. Graeme Souness’s famous clip of winning the ball and then booting it miles back to the keeper for example.
Your main issue seems to be passing the ball to the goalkeeper. Then if you wanted to change this rule, it should be related to backwards passing, rather than the backpass. I think a shot clock could be the solution, a team’s 30 seconds on the ball maximum. That way you wouldn’t see 10 unnecessary passes from defenders to goalkeeper.
On point.I’m not missing the point, the point you are making is just daft.
The rule was literally bought in to stop keepers having it in their hands out of play / on the Floor in front of them about to pick it up for half the game.
Being able to back pass didn’t slow the game down it literally stopped it. What’s next limit how much the back 4 can pass it between themselves, 2 touch football ?