International football beefs: who does your nation hate, and why?

[Fortitude]

It was quite something to see how much the Dutch and Argentine's despised each other. I know they've had amicable enough big games in past majors, but they've also had some genuine bad blood. Does it all stem from the 70's (Cruyff was appalled by Independiente in the 1972 Intercontinental Cup) with Ajax and then '78, or is there more to it than that? Is Argentina's 'beef' against Van Gaal, or is there a deeper gripe?

I'm sure most nations who genuinely get under each others' skin will have political links and have probably been warring nations in the past, but does your nation have NT's who can just rile you up as a collective and boil your piss? If yes, who are they, and why/how did it come about?

 

[P-Ro]

This will go well.

 

[Zen86]

England in 3, 2 , 1...

 

[RacingClub]

England in 3, 2 , 1...

England have to be way up there for a bunch of nations.

Argentina, Scotland and Ireland for sure?

Do the Welsh care as much? Maybe the Australians?

Maybe the Germans (but I read that their rivalry is against the French and it's mostly England fans that care about that rivalry)?

 

[Terranova]

Lahoz, you guys all know why

 

[Pocho]

As an argentinean I really don’t hate dutch people nor their players, it was a competitive match where both teams tried to take advantage and it turned out bad, nothing more. I hate Madrid fans and Mexicans, but only in football matters.

 

[JPRouve]

England have to be way up there for a bunch of nations.

Argentina, Scotland and Ireland for sure?

Do the Welsh care as much? Maybe the Australians?

Maybe the Germans (but I read that their rivalry is against the French and it's mostly England fans that care about that rivalry)?

Germany's rivalries are with Netherlands and Italy. As far as I know, France don't really have actual rivalries with anyone, maybe at some point there was a one sided one with Germany due to Battiston and Schumacher but it's not actually a thing nowadays.

 

[Massive Spanner]

For Ireland, probably Denmark in recent times cause they keep fecking beating us in qualifiers.

Historically, obviously England, but not sure "hate" is the right word, more that we've always loved beating them, given the ties between the two countries and how intertwined we are, and that we'd always be the underdogs.

 

[Terranova]

England have to be way up there for a bunch of nations.

Argentina, Scotland and Ireland for sure?

Do the Welsh care as much? Maybe the Australians?

Maybe the Germans (but I read that their rivalry is against the French and it's mostly England fans that care about that rivalry)?

I don't think England is hated in that many countries, but the same for the reason you guys think England is hated, people don't want you to win anything. Misplaced arrogance, the "it's coming home thing", very fun to watch it fall apart. But it's not hatred.

 

[RacingClub]

As far as I know, France don't really have actual rivalries with anyone, maybe at some there was a one sided one with Germany due to Battiston and Schumacher but it's not actually a thing nowadays.

I would say you definitely have a rivalry with Ireland, the most one sided rivalry in football perhaps.

It reminds me of the elevator scene in Mad Men.

"I feel bad for you" - Ireland
"I don't think about you at all" - France

 

[carvajal]

As an argentinean I really don’t hate dutch people nor their players, it was a competitive match where both teams tried to take advantage and it turned out bad, nothing more. I hate Madrid fans and Mexicans, but only in football matters.

The amount of insults between Mexicans and Argentinians on twitter before the match was on another level Why Madrid? Messi/Barça?

 

[BazzaBear]

I don't think England is hated in that many countries, but the same for the reason you guys think England is hated, people don't want you to win anything. Misplaced arrogance, the "it's coming home thing", very fun to watch it fall apart. But it's not hatred.

Does the entire world genuinely not get that "its coming home" is taking the piss out of ourselves?

You understand that it's a lyric from 3 Lions, right? And have you heard the words of that song, the ones that are all about how we constantly fail?

 

[The Cat]

Germany's rivalries are with Netherlands and Italy. As far as I know, France don't really have actual rivalries with anyone, maybe at some point there was a one sided one with Germany due to Battiston and Schumacher but it's not actually a thing nowadays.

Always remember Voller and Rijkaard in the World Cup.

 

[RacingClub]

I don't think England is hated in that many countries, but the same for the reason you guys think England is hated, people don't want you to win anything.

England (the footballing side) aren't just hated (I don't mean actually literally hated , more that people are happy to see them fail) by Argentinans, Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced arrogance though.

There is far more to it than that, the arrogance is only the cherry on top of the cake for those nations.

In fact I would say that the arrogance etc is less of a factor now then it ever was.

 

[Terranova]

Does the entire world genuinely not get that "its coming home" is taking the piss out of ourselves?

You understand that it's a lyric from 3 Lions, right? And have you heard the words of that song, the ones that are all about how we constantly fail?

I know it's from a song, but i've seen and heard a lot of of English people who generally think that England are way better than they actually are, so it's not a stretch to think that loads of people actually believe the "It's coming home thing"

 

[TheReligion]

Does the entire world genuinely not get that "its coming home" is taking the piss out of ourselves?

You understand that it's a lyric from 3 Lions, right? And have you heard the words of that song, the ones that are all about how we constantly fail?

Im confused about this too.

 

[RacingClub]

Im confused about this too.

I think that the nuance of the song is lost on a lot of people.

Like Trumpers using "Born in the USA" or "Fortunate Son" at his rallies.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

As an argentinean I really don’t hate dutch people nor their players, it was a competitive match where both teams tried to take advantage and it turned out bad, nothing more. I hate Madrid fans and Mexicans, but only in football matters.

How did the footballing hatred between Argentina and Mexico start? It seems like such a one-sided rivalry in terms of your respective accomplishments in the sport.

As a fan of MMA and boxing, I've got to say Ponzinibbio threatening Canelo Alvarez for threatening Messi was one of the odder stories surrounding this WC

https://www.mmafighting.com/2022/11...ening-lionel-messi-mess-with-entire-argentina

 

[TheReligion]

I think that the nuance of the song is lost on a lot of people.

Like Trumpers using "Born in the USA" or "Fortunate Son" at his rallies.

Yeah probably so. It’s strange though as the original song if you listen to it, and watch the video, is clearly a light hearted piss take.

Very self deprecating. It’s crazy some attach it to arrogance when it’s actually the total opposite!

 

[Terranova]

Yeah probably so. It’s strange though as the original song if you listen to it, and watch the video, is clearly a light hearted piss take.

Very self deprecating. It’s crazy some attach it to arrogance when it’s actually the total opposite!

Well when the piss take is missed by so many people in other countries, there must be something behind it

But i'm quite sure a lot of other countries think the same way about The Netherlands.

 

[Paul_Pogba]

Iran

Historically it was Arab nations like Saudi, Iraq and Qatar, especially when we underperformed in AFC, they would always work together to eliminate us from comps and qualifiers. In recent years it's been South Korea. Queiroz started waging an intense psychological war with them during the 2014 WCQ's and for a good few years the games were quite intense but it has since chilled out.

 

[RacingClub]

Yeah probably so. It’s strange though as the original song if you listen to it, and watch the video, is clearly a light hearted piss take.

Very self deprecating. It’s crazy some attach it to arrogance when it’s actually the total opposite!

Yeah it's actually quite melancholic and probably one of the best "football" songs of all time.

 

[The Cat]

From a Welsh point of view nearly everyone I've spoken to about this world cup wanting England to lose is more down to the media overload that happens every time rather than the actual team or players being hated.

A lot of us support English clubs it's the media who most can't stand.

Shearer bringing up the Welsh dressing room video within about 15 seconds of the coverage starting with his smugness is just one example but people were actually betting how long it would take.

Also spending most of the build up to the earlier match in the day talking about England when they weren't playing for hours later is another example.

 

[Bole Top]

we have a rivalry with Serbia for obvious reasons, but we play so rarely that there's very little hate left between us. they seem to hate the Swiss now

the French somehow became a pain the ass for us. beat us in 1998. and in 2018. same story in handball, if not worse. we're such a small country anyway so there's few team sports we are trully great at, but of course, it just happen that French are also invested at those same sports.

at least they don't play water polo

 

[TheReligion]

Well when the piss take is missed by so many people in other countries, there must be something behind it

But i'm quite sure a lot of other countries think the same way about The Netherlands.

Yeah it does seem to be missed be many oddly.

Our sense of humour is very self deprecating and sarcastic though which doesn’t always translate very well between languages etc

 

[Zen86]

Does the entire world genuinely not get that "its coming home" is taking the piss out of ourselves?

You understand that it's a lyric from 3 Lions, right? And have you heard the words of that song, the ones that are all about how we constantly fail?

Many countries have no/terrible sense of humour

 

[Pink Moon]

Does the entire world genuinely not get that "its coming home" is taking the piss out of ourselves?

You understand that it's a lyric from 3 Lions, right? And have you heard the words of that song, the ones that are all about how we constantly fail?

It isn't. I don't know why this continues to be argued in bad faith.

Here's what Baddiel has to say about it:

We know rationally that we tend to disappoint but somehow we keep on hoping that things might be different this time. And that element of the song, of defiance, of hope in the face of history, picks up energy if history suddenly looks like it might turn round. Even though the song comes from a place of vulnerability, its central refrain can be chanted at the right moment – now, for example – when fans want to throw caution to the wind.

Sure, there's an element of self-deprecating humour within the song as touched on above but there's not a shot that the drunkards that shout it from the rooftops every international tournament are "taking the piss out of themselves".

 

[Utd heap]

Ah I see the Scots / insert whoever has a weird chip on their shoulder is refusing to grasp the 'It's Coming Home' vibe again.

Clearly all us English are on a big WUM saying it's tongue in cheek and actually secretly belt it out with true feeling and menace. Luckily you are all there to put us straight

 

[JPRouve]

we have a rivalry with Serbia for obvious reasons, but we play so rarely that there's very little hate left between us. they seem to hate the Swiss now

the French somehow became a pain the ass for us. beat us in 1998. and in 2018. same story in handball, if not worse. we're such a small country anyway so there's few team sports we are trully great at, but of course, it just happen that French are also invested at those same sports.

at least they don't play water polo

We do and we are coming for you!

But yes, the biggest rivalry is in Handball and I find it fun, the atmosphere in Croatia is always surreal. It's the good kind of rivalries because as far as I know, it's built out of respect.

 

[Pink Moon]

From a Welsh point of view nearly everyone I've spoken to about this world cup wanting England to lose is more down to the media overload that happens every time rather than the actual team or players being hated.

A lot of us support English clubs it's the media who most can't stand.

Shearer bringing up the Welsh dressing room video within about 15 seconds of the coverage starting with his smugness is just one example but people were actually betting how long it would take.

Also spending most of the build up to the earlier match in the day talking about England when they weren't playing for hours later is another example.

Yeah this one drives me crazy.

In games not involving England they'd spend most of the build up talking about England. And then at half time they'd again talk about England. At full time too.

In the Senegal-Netherlands game on ITV, they only started previewing that game at 15:41. The show started at 15:00. The rest of the talk had been about England's earlier win v Iran.

 

[Zen86]

Sure, there's an element of self-deprecating humour within the song as touched on above but there's not a shot that the drunkards that shout it from the rooftops every international tournament are "taking the piss out of themselves".

Yeah if drunk people sing it then it must be serious

 

[TheReligion]

Yeah if drunk people sing it then it must be serious

I know. Feck me

 

[JPRouve]

I know. Feck me

We are not drunk enough for that!

 

[TheReligion]

Yeah this one drives me crazy.

In games not involving England they'd spend most of the build up talking about England. And then at half time they'd again talk about England. At full time too.

In the Senegal-Netherlands game on ITV, they only started previewing that game at 15:41. The show started at 15:00. The rest of the talk had been about England's earlier win v Iran.

I’ll have this and I get what you and @The Cat are saying regarding pundits but I find that being a reason to hate the English team strange.

Most pundits are idiots. Souness a prime example. I wouldn’t hold that against the whole of Scotland though.

 

[Red Star One]

Brazil - Argentina is probably the biggest rivalry in the international football. Closely followed by:
Italy - France
Germany - Netherlands
Croatia - Serbia

 

[TheReligion]

We are not drunk enough for that!

If a gentleman of my calibre bought you a drink you’d have butterflies in your stomach and turn all gooey eyed.

Dream on!

 

[Pink Moon]

Ah I see the Scots / insert whoever has a weird chip on their shoulder is refusing to grasp the 'It's Coming Home' vibe again.

Clearly all us English are on a big WUM saying it's tongue in cheek and actually secretly belt it out with true feeling and menace. Luckily you are all there to put us straight

You just need to look at the reaction to the loss at the weekend. How it was such a "missed opportunity" because it's Morocco in the semi final. A team that have beat more top nations at this tournament alone than England have in about 40-50 years. But yeah, no one could really accuse the English of ever being a wee bit arrogant.

Besides, the guy who wrote it literally says this:

And that element of the song, of defiance, of hope in the face of history, picks up energy if history suddenly looks like it might turn round. Even though the song comes from a place of vulnerability, its central refrain can be chanted at the right moment – now, for example – when fans want to throw caution to the wind.

But tell me more about weird chips on shoulders.

 

[JPRouve]

If a gentleman of my calibre bought you a drink you’d have butterflies in your stomach and turn all gooey eyed.

Dream on!

I don't have a better retort.

 

[TheReligion]

I don't have a better retort.

 

[DrogaPortoroz]

Hate is strong word, but I do not like cocky teams.
Brazil with their dancing and thinking they are gifts from the gods but they did not been good since 2002. Calm down feckers.
England, they are just ignorant with their hype and love to overate their team.
Germany, I just do not like them. They think they are superior to anyone else. I love to watch downfall of BL and NT, while they have confused look on their faces and you can clearly see gears spining in their head trying to figure out what is hapening.