This happened when United with Ruud his first season, granted it was the defensive and keeper problems that knocked United down a bit.
Nordic Ghost Yeti | Haaland at City
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
4-4-2 was played all over the world. It will be back, just modified much like the recent evolution of back 3 formations.
The rising prominence of the inverted full back will inevitably lead to the return of wingers playing outside rather than inverted. Teams or managers who implement this first will be at a massive advantage as the opposition won't be used to it. The only reason it hasn't happened already is that virtually all players today except those 30+ will have only ever known 433/4231 with inverted wingers and overlapping wing backs.
Do I have this right - there is a prominence of left footed right backs and right footed left backs?
433 and 423 - that's the formations United usually play and Shaw and Dalot are called FB's
BTW - 30 odd years ago when you United played 442 they had one of the best inverted fullbacks there was, fella called Denis Irwin, as far as I can recall the only other one we ever had regularly is Brandon Williams though I might be wrong on that
That’s quite the low-key kinda killer post. Right there.
This post is pretty clueless, in a sweet way
True but in this game they never even attempted to pass it to him
That's being generous!
I think at some point, the definitions get blurry. 4-4-2 will not come back in its "traditional" interpretation and if it is altered almost beyond recognition, is it really "coming back"?
In general, I think it is more about roles, responsibilities and player types. You will always need players that are excellent at operating in tight areas in midfield and between the lines. And you'll always need players who can provide width. And you need players that provide depth with runs in behind or occupy the CBs. And some need to take care of the build up. Others need to protect spaces against counters (which is one reason why invented full backs became popular). But that can be distributed across different positions. Many teams still have a CM drop between the CBs in possession to build up play, others have CBs good enough at that themselves. It is rather a question of who covers who, how do they interchange/rotate with/against the ball, etc. So you essentially have different ways to get to the same result. At City, the inverted FBs allowed the CMs to attack the box more often (which is why Gündogan became their top scorer) because they pushed up into typical CM positions but this meant that the wingers needed to stay wide. This could be a way of reintroducing 10s. But you could also have the CMs stay in their "traditional" areas with the full backs pushing higher and the wingers moving inside like the inverted winger of the last 10-15 years. If you have somebody Neymar on the wing, you definitely neither want him to hug the touch line nor play him as a CM. And a FB like Davies is wasted in the center while Cancelo might be exceptional in this role.
I believe it is rather a case of the full backs pushing into typical CM/CDM positions in the build up, essentially in front of the back three. In the last decade, they rather pushed up and hugged the touch line so that the attackers in front of them could cut inside.
OK that makes a bit more sense though what do you class as a back 3? I define that as essentially 3 CB's, not sure many top teams play with that on a regular basis these days
I think most possession oriented teams build up with some kind of three at the back formation. Four at the back is usually the formation when the opponent is in possession. There are lots of variations to this. When Guardiola had his break through, he played Alves and Abidal as FBs with Alves pushing up and Abidal playing LCB. Other teams push both full backs up and have a CDM drop either between or besides the CBs. Typically, the FBs just move up the pitching staying wide but Guardiola changed that up a bit with them taking over CM positions. He already did that with Lahm and Alaba at Bayern and now with Cancelo and earlier Zinchenko at City. Klopp sometimes utilizes Arnold in similar cashion if I'm not mistaken. Even Tuchel at Dortmund with Guerreiro.
Well we're not a good enough possession team to do that yet and TBH I would die of boredom if we went Pep style. If I was Haaland I'd have been going mental after the game yesterday, he's about the best goal scorer on the planet and they didn't try and play him in once when he was making runs that would have put him 1 on 1 with De Gea, MOTD showed about 6 or 7 of them
re: Arnold, he has to because he can't defend, he's not a FB!
Arnold is often compared to beckham and its easy enough to see how he could work as right midfielder. Its a fair point.
Casemiro often drops in for us to make a back 3. Shaw and Dalot staying back when the other pushed forward was used pretty frequently earlier in the season. I think our team and shape has changed a bit from one month to the next.
Casemiro often drops in for us to make a back 3. Shaw and Dalot staying back when the other pushed forward was used pretty frequently earlier in the season. I think our team and shape has changed a bit from one month to the next.
I mean City could definitely adapt and be willing to lose possession more, it's not like Cancelo, Rodri, De Bruyne, Gundogan (if he starts over Silva) and Mahrez can't hit quality first touch passes over the top to Haaland more, but Pep will have to implement it.
For this year, I'd almost say they should train 2 teams, one for Haaland up top and one for Alvarez up top. De Bruyne and Rodri the only 2 constants in the front 6 and then you have Foden/Mahrez/Silva/Grealish/Gundogan to rotate as options so can figure out who fits with which striker.
But yeah, Klopp and Liverpool were the right choice for him. Right now, you'd say that if City had a 2nd leg CL match decider in the QFs or Semi-Finals, Alvarez would start up top with Haaland coming off the bench hopefully mad as hell and ready to rampage.
Nordic fraud.
We do sort of do that already, count how many times the LB or RB are in the half-space and high up the pitch and the RCB spreads wide to cover them. It's the main reason Maguire is battling with Lindelof rather than just starting over him when he's a better CB overall.
Yeah, we use Malacia and Dalot infield enough that having outside wingers might give us more trouble on the break.
It would be Pellistri's role in the squad. Right-winger who can hug the touchline and run at a LB who creeps inside more.
True but that's because the movement ahead is often poor, we're too static sometimes, the other day Maguire was spraying passesto Garnchao on the wing like a playmaker so we know he can do it!
This is false.
You know good and damned well the usual accusations of overthinking would come right up if Pep pulled this stunt
he didn’t actually say that
No you don't.
But he was definitely thinking that
‘Shaw’s pocket was so damn comfy, I had a little snooze’
You're wrong. Attacking fullbacks and inverted fullbacks are an entirely new phenomenon created by Pep and Co just in the last few years.
Players like Irwin, Zambrotta, Brehme, or Breitner never existed and if they did they weren't very good because football was a different game back then played in pub car parks by drunk fat guys after each team had consumed 47 pints of lager each.
We don't need to be thankful for anything. We handled him easier than CFs of mid table teams. He was shit.
I don't think Pep cares about that anywhere near as much as he does actually winning the CL. He's got faults but he's not a coward.This is false.
You know good and damned well the usual accusations of overthinking would come right up if Pep pulled this stunt
They either have to:
1) Play more directly to Haaland
2) Get Bernardo Silva and Cancelo back in top form so they can peg good teams back for longer stretches, probably play Grealish over Foden, though RB is a problem since they play better football with Rico Lewis, but need Walker to play against top LWers since that's where most teams have their most electric attacker these days.
3) Be willing to use Haaland as a supersub at times
I don't think Maguire's vision is very good in terms of hitting balls vertically, just the long diagonal.
But yeah, we could certainly use an all-around 9 who can drop deep like Martial but also stretch vertically, and Antony to make more runs in behind.
I think 2 is the most feasible option.
1 runs counter to Guardiola's strengths, and I'm sure his number 1 phobia is deadly transitions against his teams.
3 is a distant possibility if Alvarez makes a strong case coupled with a drop in form for Haaland.
It could also be that he's been told not to, Lindelof in the past has proven he can do that but I've not seen it when he's played recently
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Who gave him permission to leave Luke's pocket? And why is this magazine spreading lies with their choice of adjectives?
"You're just a shit-looking Hanson"
It's actually quite frustrating, because I don't think he is the right fit for City, yet is the absolute perfect fit for us.
City are for sure a worse team with him in the side, but in a United shirt, I'd be confident of winning the league this year.
City are for sure a worse team with him in the side, but in a United shirt, I'd be confident of winning the league this year.
The guy has 27 goals at an average of a goal every 68 minutes. He literally cannot be the problem.
Pep has allowed all our pace to leave and his obsession with possession is what's hurting us now.
Pep has allowed all our pace to leave and his obsession with possession is what's hurting us now.
Im sure any manager in the world would take striker when there is a debate when he goes 1 or 2 games without scoring.
Throws out the silent domination argument - his presence occupies defenders. So even when he doesn't touch the ball hes actually great.
Its not without merit but looking at his heatmap its kind of clear why he doesn't get a huge number of touches. He probably should be looking to have more impact, more relevance outside of the box.
He can on the internet!
Regarding pace, I think pace became less effective in the City side as sides started setting up very deep, making the likes of Sterling and Sane less effective over time. If it is true that Haaland is best in a run-and-gun team, well City don't necessarily have the personnel for that.
2 ridiculously bad dives so far in the 1st half against Spurs at home.