No you deduced he mustn’t have liked Ole because he wasn’t mentioned in an excerpt which is baffling. I didn’t listen to the whole interview, just saw an article on BBC.
Jesse Lingard | Seoul singer
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I'm absolutely being serious here. Lingard's frame of reference is unlikely to go significantly beyond what he sees of the club's social media output. Or do you think that he sits in on digital marketing strategy meetings after training? I lean more towards the latter of your two 'options' in the bolded - he shouldn't be airing this in the media, when it is something he's not involved in. As for him being right or wrong on it, it's really neither here nor there. He was an employee on the playing side of the club. Just because he makes some dreadful videos on TikTok does NOT make him a digital marketing professional and he should wind his neck in.
I'm not sure what you mean by your third paragraph? I'm not taking anything in isolation. I think speaking about his mental health is a good thing and I was interested in his takes on the managers he worked under, but that doesn't preclude me having an opinion on him talking about the social media side of things and the absolute lack of self-awareness that shows.
The audacity of this clown is mind blowing and always has been. He talks about City and how far we are behind, he would mown pitch grass at best if he was at City, while stealing a living out of United for years. At least have the self awareness to shut your mouth.
Bit of a generalisation here, no? I think that as the game has professionalized to a greater and greater degree this side of things has naturally fallen away and that this is a far bigger driver than social media, but regardless, it's not like all players in the 90s were out on the piss all the time on the off season.
Just to make sure I understand, are you making the argument that social media has replaced partying for players, or that player don't go out partying because social media is so ubiquitous that they'd be all over Twitter as soon as they step out?
I've been thinking this deserves a thread of it's own. Our youtube channel and training clips are absolutely god awful. Basic, bland and devoid of any personality.
I didn't mean that as a slight to Forest, it was more a general comment for sides that are newly promoted, that their main goal is to avoid the drop back down.
A few things are very obvious about Jesse to me:
1. He was the leak which is why he always got a free ride in the press despite his performances (And things calming down since he left)
2. He proves how mad football is. The fact this guy is a millionaire from "Playing" football for one of the biggest clubs in the world is madness
3. He's more interested in branding and social media than he is football
4. He might not be a "bad" person but is 100% a tool
That's all there is to say about him really.
1. He was the leak which is why he always got a free ride in the press despite his performances (And things calming down since he left)
2. He proves how mad football is. The fact this guy is a millionaire from "Playing" football for one of the biggest clubs in the world is madness
3. He's more interested in branding and social media than he is football
4. He might not be a "bad" person but is 100% a tool
That's all there is to say about him really.
Agree with all this.
I don't hate him (because hate is a pretty strong word / feeling) but I'm quite happy he is no longer part of the team / squad, and would be even happier to never hear about him again.
I think this thread encapsulate internet forum in a nutshell. Good long nuance post get little engagement, while short sensationalist post get far more
One: it absolutely nornal to pick a club that shows more love and attention.
Second: have you seen West Ham an Forest in the PL table?
Yeah, nothing is ever Lingard's fault.
that podcast is shit anyway but Moyes and Lingard, fecking he’ll
I don't get his social media comments, but maybe I don't pay attention to what other clubs do on social media and social media in general (apart from Twitter). The fact remains though United have the most followers on social media of any English club and by some distance. We are only behind the Spanish giants. He is probably sad that since he left he isn't getting as much attention as he used to do.
I didn’t watch the full interview yet could see he praised Ole from one article. You deduced that from one article where Ole wasn’t even mentioned that he mustn’t have not got on with him. No body needs to watch 70 mins of the interview before backing up their facts.
Cheers. Still quite a wage for a player so injured though
I made a comment based on an excerpt someone posted. You made up lies. Time to get the feck over it. Someone else said he praised Ole - who actually watched it - and that's fab.
I’m not saying that they are never partying, look at grealish and that whole car incident last year. But it’s certainly less seen in the media these days, and it would definitely be all over Twitter if a player was drinking himself silly. See Darron Gibson at Sunderland for example.
think back to giggs and sharpe being sent home from a party by fergie
Things have become a lot more professional. If a players worst pass time is a social media presence, so what? There’s much more that would be worse (for example Sterling and laughing gas etc)
Performance issues are his responsibility
all the noise about social media etc is a lot of nonsense
Yup, agreed with all this. I would much rather players were messing around on socials than out painting the town red (or blue, I suppose, if you're citeh). What grates on me is that: 1. I don't think that players should be voicing an opinion on their club's social media strategy. It's not within their scope of work and, to me, only solidifies the impression that Lingard would rather be an influencer or social media star than a footballer. 2. His social media output was so toe-curlingly bad that even rival fans were using it to laugh at the club, so for Lingard to then criticise the club's use of social media seems ridiculous and shows a massive lack of self-awareness.
Ultimately, Lingard won't care less what chumps like me on the internet make of his social media antics - I'm sure he leads a pretty great life (hopefully he's through his mental health issues) - but it's also clear that if you present yourself on social media the way he has, with the express intention of gaining follows and attention, it won't always be positive.
How has his fitness been? I was at the United game against Forest and thought he looked heavy and out of shape.
He’s been out for a couple of weeks and will be back soon - prob in time for the cup semi final.
There’s not been any whispers about him here. The fact he gets picked when he’s fit suggests the club are happy with his fitness. I wouldn’t judge him or us on that match - it was a horribly flat performance that none of us expected.
You should feel fortunate you're on this forum as long as you are.
Oh and why is that? I didn't realise we were a school for underperforming players.
We’ll agree to disagree. Let’s move on.
I find it kind of interesting how the criticisms of Lingard are pretty varying depending on the individual. I just want to go into each of the main ones I've noticed.
1. He spends a lot of time posting on social media
I wouldn't say he's obsessed, but even if he were, I don't see the problem with this in itself. I think a lot of older supporters probably point this out more than younger supporters, because younger generations are more and more likely to make heavy use of social media, it's part of the culture of these generations. Even older ones are starting to be more prominent in recent times, although that is primarily Facebook. But yeah, for me, this is not something that really justifies criticism. It's just a personal choice on how they spend their time.
2. He does stupid dances
See above, but take out the generational thing. Remember when everyone did the macarena? What about cowboys doing line dancing. Are they stupid? What about ballet performers, breakdancers, all those hot girls you probably are more than happy to watch when they do their thing in the latest music video or on stage. What about cheerleaders? Are they all stupid? No. The guy likes to dance. This is something that has been done since time prehistoric. It's not an issue. Most of us have probably danced. I don't like to dance, but I've done it. And I don't think it's bad that other people DO like to dance. It's a hobby of choice.
3. He has a stupid nickname
Have you seen the nicknames of the people mocking him for using JLingz? We all do this. If he was going around with pretty much any of the usernames posting in this thread, he'd probably be mocked just the same. Hypocricy.
4. He is overpaid
He's paid the amount that someone is willing to pay him. That is not his fault in any way whatsoever. Footballers still pale in comparison to what most people earn in other industries. They just happen to have their name in the papers on a daily basis, while I doubt many of you know who most of the billionaires in our country are, let alone the 2,850,000 millionaires in the UK. Clue: Most of them aren't footballers. For perspective, as of May 2022, only 20 active footballers in the UK have over £20m to their name (this included Pogba, Shaw, Rashford and Varane at United). Yes, the top level footballers earn a lot of money - but even the highest earning footballers are genuinely earning very little compared to the highest earners in almost every other industry. They're just in our faces all the time, that's all. I agree that footballers are paid a lot of money, but I don't agree with how society makes a target out of them when they are still trivial numbers compared to other industries where it's so, so, so much easier to earn big money.
5. He underperformed for us
This is subjective, first and foremost, and there is a lot to dissect. Was he working hard? Was he following instructions? Was he showing up for training? Was he performing better than the alternatives we had in his position? If the answers to all of these questions are "Yes", then we have no right to complain about his level of performance, we only have a right to complain that our club wasn't able to bring in a better option. I have yet to hear that Lingard was not working hard enough from anyone from Manchester United except himself and that should be something we respect, we generally like a player who thinks he can do better and has accountability, regardless if it's humility, self-deprecation or valid. He wasn't picking the team, so even if he wasn't performing as good as alternative players, I'd say that'sstill not an issue with Lingard, but an issue with the manager. As far as I can tell, Lingard by all accounts except his own was actually a very good hard working player.
6. He was the leak!
I think most of us can agree that there were multiple leaks, and I think we're generally playing a guessing game on establishing who they are. There's no way to know for certain. However, I do feel that this is the most valid criticism if you feel it's genuinely likely that he was a key leak at our club. But I'm more a person who prefers to err on the side of innocent until proven guilty. Personally I will always be giving Pogba the side-eye on this regard, so I respect that just as I have the right to suspect Pogba, you guys have the right to suspect Lingard. Maybe both of them did it. I dunno. But I don't think I'll ever know. Honestly it could have been Mata and Matic and I'd be none the wiser.
7. He insulted our club
Did he? Does he? Where? I haven't seen this. I've seen him criticising it and we all do that on a daily basis. I dare say you find more that people in this forum are the ones who are more likely to insult Manchester United. Lingard, as far as I know, hasn't insulted the club. Henderson did a bit, Ronaldo arguably did, Pogba probably did. Lingard? Not that I'm currently aware of.
8. He's just annoying!
Yeah, I suppose him posting his views on things in a public, online environment is annoying. Wait, what are we doing in this thread again? ...Ah.
So honestly I think #6 (Leak) is the only valid criticism, but it's entirely without proof, equivalent to a conspiracy theory at this point. Perhaps #5 (Underperformance) is valid but from all accounts I'm aware of he was at the very least doing more to earn his playtime than others competing with him were, or else he simply didn't get played. I suppose #8 (Annoying) is a reason for anyone to dislike anyone, but seriously, it's not worth the extremes some people go to for any footballer. Perhaps some of us need to take a step back and focus on more important things than the people who annoy us.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, or whatever it is that the kids say these days at the end of a monologue.
1. He spends a lot of time posting on social media
I wouldn't say he's obsessed, but even if he were, I don't see the problem with this in itself. I think a lot of older supporters probably point this out more than younger supporters, because younger generations are more and more likely to make heavy use of social media, it's part of the culture of these generations. Even older ones are starting to be more prominent in recent times, although that is primarily Facebook. But yeah, for me, this is not something that really justifies criticism. It's just a personal choice on how they spend their time.
2. He does stupid dances
See above, but take out the generational thing. Remember when everyone did the macarena? What about cowboys doing line dancing. Are they stupid? What about ballet performers, breakdancers, all those hot girls you probably are more than happy to watch when they do their thing in the latest music video or on stage. What about cheerleaders? Are they all stupid? No. The guy likes to dance. This is something that has been done since time prehistoric. It's not an issue. Most of us have probably danced. I don't like to dance, but I've done it. And I don't think it's bad that other people DO like to dance. It's a hobby of choice.
3. He has a stupid nickname
Have you seen the nicknames of the people mocking him for using JLingz? We all do this. If he was going around with pretty much any of the usernames posting in this thread, he'd probably be mocked just the same. Hypocricy.
4. He is overpaid
He's paid the amount that someone is willing to pay him. That is not his fault in any way whatsoever. Footballers still pale in comparison to what most people earn in other industries. They just happen to have their name in the papers on a daily basis, while I doubt many of you know who most of the billionaires in our country are, let alone the 2,850,000 millionaires in the UK. Clue: Most of them aren't footballers. For perspective, as of May 2022, only 20 active footballers in the UK have over £20m to their name (this included Pogba, Shaw, Rashford and Varane at United). Yes, the top level footballers earn a lot of money - but even the highest earning footballers are genuinely earning very little compared to the highest earners in almost every other industry. They're just in our faces all the time, that's all. I agree that footballers are paid a lot of money, but I don't agree with how society makes a target out of them when they are still trivial numbers compared to other industries where it's so, so, so much easier to earn big money.
5. He underperformed for us
This is subjective, first and foremost, and there is a lot to dissect. Was he working hard? Was he following instructions? Was he showing up for training? Was he performing better than the alternatives we had in his position? If the answers to all of these questions are "Yes", then we have no right to complain about his level of performance, we only have a right to complain that our club wasn't able to bring in a better option. I have yet to hear that Lingard was not working hard enough from anyone from Manchester United except himself and that should be something we respect, we generally like a player who thinks he can do better and has accountability, regardless if it's humility, self-deprecation or valid. He wasn't picking the team, so even if he wasn't performing as good as alternative players, I'd say that'sstill not an issue with Lingard, but an issue with the manager. As far as I can tell, Lingard by all accounts except his own was actually a very good hard working player.
6. He was the leak!
I think most of us can agree that there were multiple leaks, and I think we're generally playing a guessing game on establishing who they are. There's no way to know for certain. However, I do feel that this is the most valid criticism if you feel it's genuinely likely that he was a key leak at our club. But I'm more a person who prefers to err on the side of innocent until proven guilty. Personally I will always be giving Pogba the side-eye on this regard, so I respect that just as I have the right to suspect Pogba, you guys have the right to suspect Lingard. Maybe both of them did it. I dunno. But I don't think I'll ever know. Honestly it could have been Mata and Matic and I'd be none the wiser.
7. He insulted our club
Did he? Does he? Where? I haven't seen this. I've seen him criticising it and we all do that on a daily basis. I dare say you find more that people in this forum are the ones who are more likely to insult Manchester United. Lingard, as far as I know, hasn't insulted the club. Henderson did a bit, Ronaldo arguably did, Pogba probably did. Lingard? Not that I'm currently aware of.
8. He's just annoying!
Yeah, I suppose him posting his views on things in a public, online environment is annoying. Wait, what are we doing in this thread again? ...Ah.
So honestly I think #6 (Leak) is the only valid criticism, but it's entirely without proof, equivalent to a conspiracy theory at this point. Perhaps #5 (Underperformance) is valid but from all accounts I'm aware of he was at the very least doing more to earn his playtime than others competing with him were, or else he simply didn't get played. I suppose #8 (Annoying) is a reason for anyone to dislike anyone, but seriously, it's not worth the extremes some people go to for any footballer. Perhaps some of us need to take a step back and focus on more important things than the people who annoy us.
Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, or whatever it is that the kids say these days at the end of a monologue.
That someone thinks the caf overpraised Jesse Lingard might be the strangest thing I've ever read on here. Not saying that there weren't people who didn't do that but it's pretty obvious to anyone who has been on this forum for the last decade that the overwhelming majority of posts about Lingard have been negative, regardless if it's about his performances on the pitch or his private life.
Everyone is not going to agree about everything and there will always be those who support a player no matter what simply because he's wearing the right shirt, but I'll take that any day of the week over having to read about how shit this United forum is because a minority of United fans praise some United players too much.
Lingard's issue is that he was just unlikeable (played in a losing team) and United are much better off now that they have a squad that's more likeable (winning games in the immediate present)
This made me realise how interesting the words we use are. Supporter, fan, praise.
Support: We should all support our players unless they're doing something we are against. If you don't like racism, and they're a racist, it's fair not to support them. But generally, by default, we should all be supporting our players, even if they aren't performing well. We don't have to support them by saying they should start every game, but we should want them to do well on the pitch, and encourage them to do so. Support is something that every player should get until they have done something unforgiveable. And even then, we could say we support them learning and becoming better. I think generally, people should support each other more rather than less. Nobody here should be vilified for supporting a player in a general sense. I supported Giggs, after all, but I don't support him sleeping with his brother's wife. I support Evra, but I don't agree with him siding with Ronaldo on some things. It's okay to want a person to be better, and to do it in a positive way.
Fan: Short for fanatic. Technically this isn't a bad thing in itself, but it can breed ignorance, as it suggests that you will follow someone blindly. Perhaps they deserve that, but if they stop deserving it, then a fanatic would continue supporting them regardless, agreeing with every good - or bad - thing the person says. Generally, we should be supporters, not fans. But that's all technically. Reality is that fan is just another word for supporter these days, and that's generally okay.
Praise: And then we come down to this part. Are we praising someone for suggesting he's not the worst person in the world? No! It's absolutely okay to defend a player from being accused of being the worst guy to play football in the Premier League. This doesn't mean we think he's the best, most people who defend Lingard don't think he should be starting for us at all. It's just a case of being reasonable with criticism, being understanding that the player is only human. He said that the barrage of vitriol (and there certainly was a lot of it) being thrown at him led him to being depressed (along with other things in his personal life), and that only made him perform worse. That's being human, and perhaps if we were a little more reasonable with our critiques of players then they might actually work harder for us.
Heh, yes.
It's not uncommon, though. You'll find something similar even in the case of Maguire, i.e. the idea that he's somehow above criticism because...something (he's English, say - when it's blatantly obvious that the Caf does in no way lean towards any kind of pro-English - in a Daily Mail-ish sense - stance).
Or - Rashford. He's been popular (again) of late, of course, but it wasn't long ago that a significant majority on here wanted him sold ASAP. Yet you'd see posters claiming that he too was overpraised/untouchable/and so forth.
Some people just make up a scenario in which they belong to a select few who have seen the truth (i.e. the idiots who do not agree with me are the majority, I belong to the intelligent minority) - there's probably a term for that.
I'm not sure what we're agreeing to disagree about tbh? I made a comment based on the excerpt that was posted. It's since been clarified that he praised Ole, and I have no issue with that, and haven't tried to state otherwise.
You're the one who came in here with an arsey attitude with your whole "Eh" to start a response. You could have been more pleasant and clarified that the excerpt was incorrect, or misleading. You then attempted to gaslight me and made up some nonsense about me saying Lingard "hated" Ole. Your issue seems to lie with the Reddit poster who posted the excerpt, so maybe take your ire out on them. You should have politely apologised to me for the gaslighting but you chose not to.
Read my previous message before getting your knickers in a twist. I apologised for saying you mentioned hate when you didn’t. No idea why you are getting worked up about eh as I was just wondering where you figured he didn’t like Ole when it was in a clear article he did. You’ve stated that was based on an excerpt and not checking the rest of the interview that’s fine.
I don't think that's the case, listening to the podcast it's quite clear that the environment was the issue. Many excellent players that just couldn't perform at United, and after one or two signings you'd think it's the individual, however consistent signings and good managers all having the same result leaves only the environment being the root cause of all of our issues.
The difference between then and now is Ed Woodward leaving, and a manager with discipline coming in. It's a different discussion whether Lingard would have made it in a ETH era, but its clear from that interview he's having to balance a lot outside of football in his personal life.
Ah, cool.
Great.
Have a fabulous weekend
You too. Let’s hope it contains a United win!Have a fabulous weekend
Fair play, this is a great post and I couldn't agree more.
Great post, couldn't agree more