City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[Zehner]

Go find out how many start ups fail due to money problems before you spout your nonsense

Sport isn’t any other market and pretending they can be compared will never be of benefit.

Yes you're correct with regards to start-ups, but they exist only to generate profits and maximise shareholder returns.

Football is for the fans, not for investors looking to make a quick buck. If clubs were allowed to be operated with the same amount of losses, leverage and earnings risk as start-ups, then you'd have clubs going bankrupt on a monthly basis across the world. This would be destructive for the game.

Sport is based on some principle of fairness. The comparison with the startups makes no sense. I mean, startups and companies can just hire more people and throw them at the problem. Let's do so in sports too and some squad fields 800 players at the same time.

Yeah but operating a football club isn't as risky as a startup, is it? Plus not everybody has to follow a growth strategy but they would at least have the choice to do so. As of now, there's literally no way for a small club to make its way to the top. And let's be real, money doesn't allow you to field 800 players but it definitely is the most decisive dimension when operating a football club. And FFP ensures that basically all clubs remain in the tier that they currently are at and the only way to get to the top of the food chain is either circumventing the rules or straight out breaching them. It's literally the only way to the top.

But I'm out at this point. For me it's as clear as day that FFP is the exact opposite of fair but I think most people have already made up their mind about it. I blame it on the conflict of interests a fan of a top club has when criticizing FFP.

To the 2 bolded parts - it's not, and I've already done that. If you're going to be wilfully ignorant about things, and argue without any intellectual honestly, then that's your prerogative.

I don't think I'm the one who is intellectually dishonest. I mean, in the end you're the one trying to sell that limiting their freedom to make decision is an advantage for small clubs as if they needed a supervisor. I don't believe you would see it this way if you were a fan of a smaller club. But let's just agree to disagree here. Maybe a few years down the road when the ESL will be inevitable you'll see it differently.

It’s the shittest legal cartel I’ve ever seen. If Arsenal, Liverpool and United are putting in rules deliberately to stop City and Chelsea from competing then feck me - what a job they’ve done. 1 league title between the 3 of them in 10 fecking years. Anyone who looks at wages and transfer fees going up continually and doesn’t think maybe some sort of cap is needed to stop that growth in relation to revenues is being a bit silly in my mind.

Nobody said it was a good cartel Which is why there was a second attempt with the ESL.

 

[DickDastardly]

Their biggest problem will be the iminnant departure of Pep.

Even with all the money in the world, we all see how much a proper manager does.

 

[Member 125398]

At the end of they day it is just 53 pages of wishfull thinking. No one knows if anything illegal can be proven, nor if anything illegal has even taken place as hard to believe as it may be.

Ilegal has nothing to do with it. What is known is that the PL have charged them because they have, in the PL's view, broken the PL rules. The accuracy of those charges will now be analysed by a comission.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

Its 53 pages of leaks that show they wanted to get around rules that were in place.

They wouldn't publish the 53 pages if it was nothing.

They essentially bribed their way out of the UEFA ruling too iirc. Or something in the ruling meant they got off free when really they shouldn't have.

This time I don't think it'll be so easy, and honestly you'd be hard pressed to find a football fan that will side with City.

Speaking about this thread. 54 pages of wishfull thinking now

 

[Mickeza]

That’s not quite true. The big clubs influenced FFP in order to make it impossible for them to be matched financially. By all means have a go at City but let’s be honest about the big clubs motives here.

Manchester United would be able to earn hundreds of millions more in revenue if they were allowed to sell their own media rights to all their games to Amazon fecking Prime. They aren’t allowed to do so because it would be unfair and make the league less competitive. Is this a legal cartel stopping Manchester United being competitive? You oil lickers can’t have it both ways. You can’t allow unregulated spending from states or owners who want to sportwash their crimes that results in one club winning 5 of the last 6 EPL titles on one hand but with the other say it’s unfair and against the spirit of the league for Manchester United to sell their own media rights - It’s hypocritical bullshit.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

Yeah I admire @padr81 for at least admitting he thinks City could be in trouble

Oh I think we are in huge trouble

 

[AndySmith1990]

Would love for them to get relegated, or not allowed to play in any English leagues.

Ill take KBD and Haaland in the summer if they do, so they can remain in Manchester

The wages we pay top earners wouldn't be enough to match their undisclosed additional offshore wages. They'll feck off to PSG or Spain

 

[padr81]

I bet you’re popular on bluemoon

I once had my own Rag in disguise thread over there. I feel like a centrist, hated by both sides. (The caf and Bluemoon).

In reality I'll stick by City but ya know, sticking by someone doesn't mean burying ones head in the sand.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

This is absolutely unthinkable in any other market. Imagine startups only being allowed to spend what they earn, we'd probably still be stuck with analog photography, cell phones and horses.

"Move fast and break things" - Carl Benz

 

[WeePat]

You know he hit post, and sat back ready to bask in the glory of his wisdom as the notifications rolled in.

Then he clicked on the first one, and boom, reality hit like a wet fish and he abandoned thread.

ffs

 

[Ayoba]

I cant wait for Pep's next presser.

 

[Berbaclass]

I cant wait for Pep's next presser.

Why? it will be a total non-event. No comment

 

[711]

For those aspiring for European football they'll vote against them, and those in relegation scraps its a vote they'll never win.

Its sad that they can't do it within the rules given that they're state run

Yes and yes.

Truth is there are lots of people in the world that think rules are only there for the stupid and everyone with any intelligence will try and get round them if they can. It's nice when they get their come-uppance, doesn't happen often enough, but it's satisfying when it does.

 

[TheNewEra]

Speaking about this thread. 54 pages of wishfull thinking now

I thought you meant the document of allegations, either way point deductions is the best case city fans can hope for.

Itll be worse imo.

 

[eire-red]

Yeah but operating a football club isn't as risky as a startup, is it? Plus not everybody has to follow a growth strategy but they would at least have the choice to do so. As of now, there's literally no way for a small club to make its way to the top. And let's be real, money doesn't allow you to field 800 players but it definitely is the most decisive dimension when operating a football club. And FFP ensures that basically all clubs remain in the tier that they currently are at and the only way to get to the top of the food chain is either circumventing the rules or straight out breaching them. It's literally the only way to the top.

But I'm out at this point. For me it's as clear as day that FFP is the exact opposite of fair but I think most people have already made up their mind about it. I blame it on the conflict of interests a fan of a top club has when criticizing FFP.

I'd say operating a football club is very risky business, hence why rules were brought in. But you can't have boom-bust cycles for clubs like you do in the corporate world.

And clubs can make it out of the tiers they are in. Brighton and Brentford are two easy examples in the PL right now. Leicester won the league in recent times.

It's not supposed to be easy to make it to the top, that's true for all walks of life, business and sport included. Money doesn't guarantee success either, just look at United for the past decade.

 

[Matthew84!]

If guilty, big if, if they get got relegated, would they have to comply with ffp in that certain league? As the revenue would be totally different and wages are very high.

 

[Strelok]

By the sounds of it many of City transfer fees and wages could be hidden. Making the real spend even higher.

Of course it is. You can't be afforded to have two squads which both might challenge for a top 4/title even in FM.

For some 'reason' many of their players have a much lower wages than it should be. And for being a rich but basically no history club most of the time money is the sole reason why the players want to be there.

 

[Berbaclass]

If guilty, big if, if they get got relegated, would they have to comply with ffp in that certain league? As the revenue would be totally different and wages are very high.

Isn't there a wage cap in the EFL?

Edit: No it was scrapped...

 

[FeedTheGoat]

I thought you meant the document of allegations, either way point deductions is the best case city fans can hope for.

Itll be worse imo.

Are you in the independent comission, and if yes, do you take bribes?

 

[SER19]

Cheats. Every time the Aguero goal and celebration is shown that should be the word in mind. The big crime is that it wasn't just clamped down earlier.

 

[SER19]

Why? it will be a total non-event. No comment

No comment about spending the biggest spell of his career at a tainted, cheating club. A legacy ruiner

 

[Rossa]

Oh I think we are in huge trouble

And what do you think about it? If allegations are true, will you walk away from the club?

 

[Berbaclass]

I'm surprised more hasn't been made about Pep's brother and Girona. That seems a bit dodgy.

 

[Posh Red]

Then what good does it do for smaller clubs? It essentially only limits the speed with which they can grow. It's like saying "we don't trust you to run your business yourself so we put rules in place you have to abide to for your own protection".

This is absolutely unthinkable in any other market. Imagine startups only being allowed to spend what they earn, we'd probably still be stuck with analog photography, cell phones and horses.

But this isn’t a normal economic market. It’s a sporting pyramid which is unique, and you can’t apply the same logic.

I’m not suggesting FFP is perfect, but we have seen in the English pyramid how careless owners destroyed historic football clubs that were important parts of the community through reckless financial mismanagement.

 

[Berbaclass]

No comment about spending the biggest spell of his career at a tainted, cheating club. A legacy ruiner

"I'm here to talk about football" etc.

 

[NicolaSacco]

I mean the two biggest clubs in the country have had two eras of real success each and in between and for the majority of seasons have not been successful. United have gone 10 years without a league win and Liverpool just came off a 30 year wait.

What you seem to want is for football to become about shoddily run football clubs like your own to wake up one morning to owners that transform the landscape of the football world. Cheat mode. Truly aspirational. When City got took over they went from being an absolute joke to being a matter of when not if. Should football really reward mediocrity.

I don’t think so. Earn it.

I support Ipswich by the way- if I have a ‘second team’, which I think is a bit of a BS concept anyway, it would be Arsenal.

For me there are two ways the PL is exciting.

1) because Ipswich are in it (fat chance right now), or

2) by having different teams in the ascendancy.

The current state of the Bundesliga and Juve’s dominant decade in Serie A are/were mind numbingly boring despite the lack of oil clubs. If the financial conditions are such that one team dominates for year upon year, even if that money was ‘fairly’ earned, rather than invested, then it’s boring as hell to me.

I’m sure you disagree with me but different people have different concepts of what makes a league exciting.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

And what do you think about it? If allegations are true, will you walk away from the club?

Upset and angry, but I probably will never be able to walk away no. Hard to predict my mental state of mind if it happens though.

 

[Tincanalley]

Speaking about this thread. 54 pages of wishfull thinking now

Wishful has one ‘l’. £ as opposed to ££.

 

[TheNewEra]

Are you in the independent comission, and if yes, do you take bribes?

I'm not but after 2 big cases like this they won't slap them on the wrist and say "naughty naughty don't do it again" will they?

Its not just one breach, its over a decade in time span.

 

[Posh Red]

My city fan colleague told me this, where has it come from?

I posted earlier that I had seen this on an incredibly obvious joke/meme post on Twitter. It seems some people fell for it.

 

[SER19]

"I'm here to talk about football" etc.

Yeah he was happy to bury his head in the sand when they promised him unlimited cash to buy a CL, so no reason he'll change now

 

[TheGame]

Pep now to accelerate his departure.

 

[NicolaSacco]

But this isn’t a normal economic market. It’s a sporting pyramid which is unique, and you can’t apply the same logic.

I’m not suggesting FFP is perfect, but we have seen in the English pyramid how careless owners destroyed historic football clubs that were important parts do the immunity through reckless financial mismanagement.

But there were ways to deal with that didn’t involve banning situations like City and Chelsea. It’s so clearly disingenuous to frame this as somehow the only way to stop small clubs going bust. I’m amazed you think Man Utd did anything other than try to guarantee their position at the top of the tree.

 

[Zehner]

I'd say operating a football club is very risky business, hence why rules were brought in. But you can't have boom-bust cycles for clubs like you do in the corporate world.

And clubs can make it out of the tiers they are in. Brighton and Brentford are two easy examples in the PL right now. Leicester won the league in recent times.

It's not supposed to be easy to make it to the top, that's true for all walks of life, business and sport included. Money doesn't guarantee success either, just look at United for the past decade.

In 19/20 Brighton was at €147M revenue, United at €651M. Even if United stopped growing and Brighton growed by 10% per year, they would need 16 years to get to United's level. The problem for Brighton is that the top clubs are actually growing faster than the runner ups.

Let's be real, it is literally impossible to organically grow into a top club. You need capital injections for that to happen.

And now, that really my last post in here

 

[Red in STL]

Upset and angry, but I probably will never be able to walk away no. Hard to predict my mental state of mind before hand though

You can support your team and not support the ownership - that's what most United fans do anyway, it's not the fans fault the club broke the rules

 

[FeedTheGoat]

I'm not but after 2 big cases like this they won't slap them on the wrist and say "naughty naughty don't do it again" will they?

Its not just one breach, its over a decade in time span.

For what it is worth, I don't see this ending without huge sanctions to City. How severe I do not know. I'm just saying "they have to get punished this time, it is a open secret" from people that equally don't know is worth very little

 

[Tincanalley]

I cant wait for Pep's next presser.

He will have to circle the wagons. Squeeze his eyes very tightly, and see only … football. Other people will answer for the oily mess in which his bald head is greased.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

Wishful has one ‘l’. £ as opposed to ££.

Sorry, not my mother tongue, but that was shit mistake I agree

You can support your team and not support the ownership - that's what most United fans do anyway, it's not the fans fault the club broke the rules

This is true. And considering we have no idea what state the club will be in after all this it is impossible to answer

 

[joobier]

If guilty, big if, if they get got relegated, would they have to comply with ffp in that certain league? As the revenue would be totally different and wages are very high.

At least they'll have their massive ticket revenue to fall back on. Oh wait, they'll be gone faster than that guy who thought they were being charged for the length of the grass at the etihad.

 

[Longshanks]

Then what good does it do for smaller clubs? It essentially only limits the speed with which they can grow. It's like saying "we don't trust you to run your business yourself so we put rules in place you have to abide to for your own protection".

This is absolutely unthinkable in any other market. Imagine startups only being allowed to spend what they earn, we'd probably still be stuck with analog photography, cell phones and horses.

Yes that's because there are scores of clubs who have spent well beyond there means over the years then found themselves in all manner of financial trouble off the back of it. Some have ceased to exist and had to be re-born some barely survived but are now a shadow of there former selves.

Yes it does limit a clubs ability to grow quickly but a club can only really grow that quickly with a big cash injection and the question will always be what happens to the club if the plug gets pulled in the finances and the club is left to pick up the bill but can not generate enough revenue of its own back to cope.