Declan Rice | signs for arsenal

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MadDogg

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Its a Royal decree that was made about workers rights. Trust me on this its mandatory

You are conflating two things that have naught to do with each other. A club having the unilateral right to pick the buy out clause protecting their contract with a player. Doesn't at the same grant them the right to unilaterally change it at whim any time they please. Contracts and contract laws can never work like that any where on the planet.

I also find it strange y'all keep insisting on "proof" of what I'm arguing. Yet you are aware there are several players in Laliga with buy out clause above 500m. If what you claim is true? And its not merely a way for clubs to a) protect their contract with a player and b) show a player how much they are of value to their project and is instead "a fee both parties must agree on". And 'players won't ever agree to sign deals with exhorbitant clauses"...

Why DO players as young as Fati, Pedri, Vinicius jr to name juat sign release clauses of close to or up to €1B? Do you think them all stupid?

Rather what doesn't make sense is insisting buy out clauses in Spain operate like they do every where else. All the arguments yall put forth work every where else correctly. Not in Spain where EVERY player contract, has a termination clause. With a legally mandatory clause, if only signing a contract with a clause entirely depended on the player's satisfaction with the clause, Spanish teams would never be able to stay afloat with enough players let alone run a sustainable footballing enterprise. That much should be obvious.
I ask for proof because the more I look for information, the more I find saying that you are wrong. The Royal Decree states that if the player does terminate his contract that the club will be owed compensation, and that in cases where the compensation level is not established (ie. if there is no buy-out clause) the Spanish labour courts will decide on the amount. That level of compensation will mostly be based on the wage the player was getting and how long is left on his contract, which will generally be much lower than what the buy-out clauses that are used. The Royal Decree is not that the buy-out clause is mandatory.

https://sennferrero.com/wp-content/...15-Special-Report-Football-and-Identities.pdf

There is a misconception that buy-out clauses are mandatory in Spain. As a result of recent decisions both at the national and international levels, their content has been subject to interpretation, making clear their origin, legal nature and practical effects.

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The first idea is that the Royal Decree does not impose or mandate the insertion of these buy-out clauses in employment contracts - rather, clubs (as the main employers in these circumstances) may elect to insert such clauses in employment contracts in agreement (pacta sunt servanda) with the player (the employee), for example, when they wish to have certainty as to the sum payable should the athlete elect to transfer to another club (i.e. without the need to refer to the Spanish Labour Court), what would also imply a delay on the procedure. The Royal Decree clearly establishes that “in the absence of an agreement in this regard, it shall be established by a body with jurisdiction in labour matters…”. Thus, the Royal Decree admits the possibility of an employment contract being valid too without this clause.

https://www.ruizcrespo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/ruizcrespo-noticia-20190103-abogado-GSLTR9.pdf

“The parties may, however, stipulate in the contract the amount that the player shall pay to the club as compensation in order to unilaterally terminate the contract (a so-called buyout clause). The advantage of this clause is that the parties mutually agree on the amount at the very beginning and fix this in the contract. By paying this amount to the club, the player is entitled to unilaterally terminate the employment contract. With this buyout clause, the parties agree to give the player the opportunity to cancel the contract at any moment and without a valid reason, i.e. also during the protected period, and as such, no sporting sanctions may be imposed on the player as a result of the premature termination.”

The existence of the Spanish buy-out clause, or “cláusula de rescission”, is established by Real Decreto 1006/1985 on the Special Labour Relationship of Players, where art. 16 determines that where a player unilaterally terminates a contract the pre-existing club will be owed compensation. The Real Decreto goes on to say that, in cases where compensation is not established, then the ordinary Spanish labour courts shall retain jurisdiction in order to impose a quantum payable to the previous club.

As a result of this federal labour law, it has since become standard practice for clubs and players to insert such a clause into the employment contract. This gives clubs the certainty of a compensatory amount while it enshrines the fundamental right of an employee to leave his current employer for a new one. It is clear that this standard practice is a reaction to the uncertainty faced when a labour court judge, without specific experience in the football world, could be called upon to assign a value for this compensatory amount.

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This is important within the context of the discussion of buy-out clauses. The club may wish to set the compensatory amount exceedingly high in order to protect its “asset”. An exceedingly high and prohibitive amount would provide a disincentive for prospective clubs from poaching talent.

---

A competing interest to the club’s is the player’s interest in ensuring that the compensatory amount is not too high so that if he wishes to leave his existing employer the amount would not be prohibitive. This, naturally, is obvious.

A difficulty arises, however, when an agent is negotiating on behalf of the player. Football agents, now referred to as intermediaries, are often paid on a commission basis calculated as a percentage of the amount that is paid for the player’s services. It would appear that the agent is presented with a conflict of interest where it may serve the player best, without considering the financial interests of the agent, to have this compensatory amount set as low as possible. The negotiation of the compensatory amount presents an interesting dynamic, where often agents will promise to give a portion of the commission back to the player, in order to ensure the player may be able to benefit from the insertion of an excessive compensatory amount.

Two papers from different Spanish sports lawyers, stating that a) buy-out clauses are not mandatory, and that b) the figure in the buy-out clause is decided in negotiation between the club and the player (and his agent). They are probably the two most legitimate sources I found, but there were numerous others that said the same thing.

The super high buy-out clauses are for players who are extremely happy where they are AND who are getting paid accordingly. To put it simply, they already know they are exactly where they want to be and I'm sure the club boosts their wages up a bit extra for them to agree to the clause. Why wouldn't the players agree to that extra money when they have absolutely no intention of leaving anyway? The way they look at it the only way they might want to leave is if things are going badly, in which case the club themselves will realistically not be holding out for the super high fee in the clause anyway.

As for your last sentence saying that players would refuse to sign a contract if they had to agree to it so therefore they it HAS to be only the club deciding for themselves, that's like saying why doesn't every player in England demand a £10 release clause in their contract. In the real world any player that won't agree to having a buy-out clause (or insists on a massively under-valued one) won't be signed by a Spanish club. Or if they are they would be on absolutely tiny wages. Therefore all players will have a buy-out clause, and in the vast majority of cases I presume it will be a bit above their market value but not excessively so. The higher above their market value the clause is, the higher wage the player and his agent will demand (if they even agree at all).

So please, if you have proof of the opposite then please share. If I'm wrong I would actually like to know. But the more in depth I search the more I find stating that I and the other posters that responded to you are right.
 
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NLunited

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We need an elite 8 more than an elite 6. We have Casemiro.

If we are going to spend a lot, do it on a striker.

I only see Rice coming here if we can spend more than 200 mill this summer.

Otherwise get someone like Lavia, a good 8 and splurge on the striker we need
 

Strootman's Finger

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Have you watched Tielemans in the last 18 months? I'd rather keep McT and Fred if Tielemans is all there is.
It's such a bizarre thing, I think it's just become a throw away comment on this site that when someone doesn't like a suggested option they just shit on it and suggest Teilemans instead. The guy has been useless for 2 years, do these people even watch football? Maybe we should just sign Wesley Sneijder. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Teilemans playing in the championship with Leicester next season, I haven't seen enough to justify otherwise.
 

Strootman's Finger

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Arsenal trying to buy Cancelo and Rico, that are two great additions to their team.
Not happening, they'll be lucky to sign either after they way their bottled it. Arsenal at the moment is not a top tier club, they exceeded expectations and lead the league most of the season, but reality caught up with them. They needed to win this season to be up there with City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea (not as much anymore) as teams that are contenders for the top. Arsenal since the new stadium are more in the category of Tottenham, they're always around, but you know they'll never win, and thus good/great players will sign for them, but not world class players.

Rice and Caicedo will both have options from clubs that provide better opportunities for trophies than Arsenal will.
 

Amsterdam Devil

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Not happening, they'll be lucky to sign either after they way their bottled it. Arsenal at the moment is not a top tier club, they exceeded expectations and lead the league most of the season, but reality caught up with them. They needed to win this season to be up there with City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea (not as much anymore) as teams that are contenders for the top. Arsenal since the new stadium are more in the category of Tottenham, they're always around, but you know they'll never win, and thus good/great players will sign for them, but not world class players.

Rice and Caicedo will both have options from clubs that provide better opportunities for trophies than Arsenal will.
We’ll see, ofcourse the bottled it big time but their owners showed last couple of years that they are willing to spend big. For Rice it’s an easy way to stay in London and for Cancelo it’s an easy way to play for someone he already knows, like Jesus and Zinchenko did. And they have some good young players, they had to renew almost their whole squad in the last couple of years, sort of what we have to do, and they didn’t do that bad I think. We’ll see if it’s enough for them to compete with the big clubs, but we have to wait and see for ourselves as well if we will be good enough in the next couple of years.
 

GoonerBear

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Not happening, they'll be lucky to sign either after they way their bottled it. Arsenal at the moment is not a top tier club, they exceeded expectations and lead the league most of the season, but reality caught up with them. They needed to win this season to be up there with City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea (not as much anymore) as teams that are contenders for the top. Arsenal since the new stadium are more in the category of Tottenham, they're always around, but you know they'll never win, and thus good/great players will sign for them, but not world class players.

Rice and Caicedo will both have options from clubs that provide better opportunities for trophies than Arsenal will.
What a lot of nonsese. You honestly think Rice or Caceido will ignore the fact Arsenal are a young team that are improving year on year and are about to finish 2nd, and think becuase they didn't get over the finishing line that they will will suddenly decide they don't want to join?

Any player worth his salt if they fancy themselves as a player will think they can add something to help a team improve even more than what they are.
 

croadyman

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What a lot of nonsese. You honestly think Rice or Caceido will ignore the fact Arsenal are a young team that are improving year on year and are about to finish 2nd, and think becuase they didn't get over the finishing line that they will will suddenly decide they don't want to join?

Any player worth his salt if they fancy themselves as a player will think they can add something to help a team improve even more than what they are.
Oh yeah you will definitely get one of them but I am praying with everything it isn't both
 

Wengerista

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I'm finding it difficult to imagine both. We're also linked with Cancelo and will be in the market for another RW if Nelson doesn't renew. That's a LOT of money, even with optimistically £80-100m raised from sales. Compromises will have to be made.
 

Strootman's Finger

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What a lot of nonsese. You honestly think Rice or Caceido will ignore the fact Arsenal are a young team that are improving year on year and are about to finish 2nd, and think becuase they didn't get over the finishing line that they will will suddenly decide they don't want to join?

Any player worth his salt if they fancy themselves as a player will think they can add something to help a team improve even more than what they are.
I think they'll think logically, like everyone who isn't an Arsenal fan, and say, this is not a title chasing club, it's a good club, with history, that had a good run this year but will be back to fighting for fourth, because that's their place in football in this day and age.

If you are a player like Rice, who is highly sought after, clearly a very talented player, entering the prime years of his career, do you sign for Arsenal, who hasn't been mentioned in a title fight prior to this season in about 20, or do you sign for Liverpool, who could win the league next season?
 

Strootman's Finger

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It's more the point he made about players not wanting to join because we didn't win the league.
I do think you'll get Rice, I think his stock has dropped and top tier clubs aren't really looking at him anymore. I previously just used him as an example to illustrate a point. There is no way in hell you get Caicedo now, guys got his sights on Real Madrid, his ambition is clearly higher than Arsenal.
 

Red Star One

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I'm finding it difficult to imagine both. We're also linked with Cancelo and will be in the market for another RW if Nelson doesn't renew. That's a LOT of money, even with optimistically £80-100m raised from sales. Compromises will have to be made.
Pep would be quite stupid to sell you Cancelo
 

Wengerista

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Pep would be quite stupid to sell you Cancelo
I'm sure we wouldn't be their first choice of buyer but it depends if any others are willing to get close to their full valuation, which Bayern aren't touching.
 

croadyman

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I do think you'll get Rice, I think his stock has dropped and top tier clubs aren't really looking at him anymore. I previously just used him as an example to illustrate a point. There is no way in hell you get Caicedo now, guys got his sights on Real Madrid, his ambition is clearly higher than Arsenal.
So we have no chance of getting Caicedo then?
 

GoonerBear

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I do think you'll get Rice, I think his stock has dropped and top tier clubs aren't really looking at him anymore. I previously just used him as an example to illustrate a point. There is no way in hell you get Caicedo now, guys got his sights on Real Madrid, his ambition is clearly higher than Arsenal.
Real who have Kroos, Tchouameni, Modric, Camavinga and Valverde, and who are trying to get Bellingham for over £100M. Wonder what's more likely. :houllier:
 

Dazzmondo

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--------------- Rice -------- Rabiot ------------------

OR

------------- Rabiot -------- Casemiro -----------

Keen to hear from fellow Caf memebrs which would provide a midfield combo in front of the back 4.
Rice-Casemiro

Rice can easily be an 8. He already has some of the best progressive numbers in Europe.
 

Hammondo

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Well United is a much bigger club, probably expected to challenge next year and he's claimed to be a fan. We definitely have a better shot than arsenal, I just don't think we'll go for him.
On what planet are we expected to challenge next year?
 

Mogget

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Not happening, they'll be lucky to sign either after they way their bottled it. Arsenal at the moment is not a top tier club, they exceeded expectations and lead the league most of the season, but reality caught up with them. They needed to win this season to be up there with City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea (not as much anymore) as teams that are contenders for the top. Arsenal since the new stadium are more in the category of Tottenham, they're always around, but you know they'll never win, and thus good/great players will sign for them, but not world class players.

Rice and Caicedo will both have options from clubs that provide better opportunities for trophies than Arsenal will.
I agree with you that we've been in the tier below City, Liverpool, and Chelsea in terms of recently challenging for major trophies but I think you're being very generous in putting United with those clubs. All three have either won a league or CL, or both, recently. In the last 10 seasons, when have United challenged for either of those trophies?
 

Cassidy

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Not happening, they'll be lucky to sign either after they way their bottled it. Arsenal at the moment is not a top tier club, they exceeded expectations and lead the league most of the season, but reality caught up with them. They needed to win this season to be up there with City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea (not as much anymore) as teams that are contenders for the top. Arsenal since the new stadium are more in the category of Tottenham, they're always around, but you know they'll never win, and thus good/great players will sign for them, but not world class players.

Rice and Caicedo will both have options from clubs that provide better opportunities for trophies than Arsenal will.
You’re not living in the real world. They have every chance of signing either
 

Strootman's Finger

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You’re not living in the real world. They have every chance of signing either
There is a chance, but once Arsenal hashes out a deal a big club will show up and outbid them. There is no way Arsenal are getting a free run at Caicedo, if Arsenal make a move and Brighton signal they might deal, then several other clubs will jump in.
 

Cassidy

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There is a chance, but once Arsenal hashes out a deal a big club will show up and outbid them. There is no way Arsenal are getting a free run at Caicedo, if Arsenal make a move and Brighton signal they might deal, then several other clubs will jump in.
And there is every chance the player picks Arsenal unless its Real Madrid or City calling.
 

gajender

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There is a chance, but once Arsenal hashes out a deal a big club will show up and outbid them. There is no way Arsenal are getting a free run at Caicedo, if Arsenal make a move and Brighton signal they might deal, then several other clubs will jump in.
So why won't these several other clubs actually bother to find out themselves whether Brighton would be willing to do the deal or not if they want him , instead of waiting for Arsenal to get the head start .
 

Strootman's Finger

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So why won't these several other clubs actually bother to find out themselves whether Brighton would be willing to do the deal or not if they want him , instead of waiting for Arsenal to get the head start .
Who knows who's doing what in the background? But that approach has worked pretty well for Chelsea the last year, let someone do all the dirty work, then show up at the end with slightly more cash.
 

Powderfinger

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Who knows who's doing what in the background? But that approach has worked pretty well for Chelsea the last year, let someone do all the dirty work, then show up at the end with slightly more cash.
Pretty well = Spending £150m on Cucurella and Mudryk.
 

MonsieurGooner

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Not happening, they'll be lucky to sign either after they way their bottled it. Arsenal at the moment is not a top tier club, they exceeded expectations and lead the league most of the season, but reality caught up with them. They needed to win this season to be up there with City, Liverpool, United, Chelsea (not as much anymore) as teams that are contenders for the top. Arsenal since the new stadium are more in the category of Tottenham, they're always around, but you know they'll never win, and thus good/great players will sign for them, but not world class players.

Rice and Caicedo will both have options from clubs that provide better opportunities for trophies than Arsenal will.
You do realise after this season it will have been 10 years since Fergie retired. In those 10 seasons Arsenal have finished above Man United 7 times out of 10. And our points total this season is better that any total United have posted since Ferguson retired? Dont know where your confidence comes from. We both have levels we need to reach if we are to land either a PL or CL. We came relatively close this year, but were hunted down by a juggernaut of a team.

Since the Kroenke's took full ownership, we have been investing. Problem is the big deals were Pepe, and new massive contract to keep Ozil and PEA. All of which bombed. However since the clear out of about to seasons ago, we have spent heavilly in the market, and been agressvie signing up existing players. Were currently in the process of signing Saka to a 300k a week deal. Martinelli has been signed up, negotiations still ongoing with Saliba, Odegaard also expected to he offered a deal close to the one Saka is on the verge of signing. Bookmakers have Arsenal really short priced odds to sign Declan Rice - the smart money is Rice will sign for Arsenal. As for Caicedo, who knows. Although reports have come out recently Nketiah, Balogun, Smith-Rowe, and Tierney will all be on the for sale list this window. Which has surprised many Arsenal fans, & I interpret that as Arteta wanting to be really agressive and take no prisoners when it comes to bettering this current Arsenal. No sentimentality just because Nketiah, Balogun and Smith-Rowe are all acadamy lads.

Dont be totally surprised if our front six next season is Rice, Caicedo, Odegaard, Saka, Martinelli, Jesus. If you think thats an easy beat, good luck with it.

Of course United will spend, might get Harry Kane and pair hi with Rashford and become counter attack kings with thise two, even make a few other additions. But this idea that Arsenal have to 'watch out' for Chelsea, United, Newcastle is rubbish. We dont have to worry about you anymore than you should worry about us.
 

awop

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Did you have to rip the Mudryk posters off your wall when he signed for Chelsea?
:lol: :lol:
Your posts in this last page are very funny. Completely wrong and baseless, but very funny. Please continue.
About Rice, i think it will be done if it's not already agreed behind the scenes but i can't see us signing both him and Caicedo. We'd have to go back to Brighton with at least 70/80M for him too.
There's holes to fix in defence and a backup for Saka that will eat up a big portion of our summer budget.
 

gajender

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:lol: :lol:
Your posts in this last page are very funny. Completely wrong and baseless, but very funny. Please continue.
About Rice, i think it will be done if it's not already agreed behind the scenes but i can't see us signing both him and Caicedo. We'd have to go back to Brighton with at least 70/80M for him too.
There's holes to fix in defence and a backup for Saka that will eat up a big portion of our summer budget.
I believe you have as good a chance as any body to get Rice and Caicedo to be honest and it seems your management and Arteta are actually aware that there is lot of scope of improvement in your first eleven and ideally squad depth should be created by pushing the current starters on bench by bringing in better alternatives .

I believe after midfield they would target defensive reinforcements .
 

Bebestation

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This is why I always wanted Rice.

To have a False CB.

This is what Stones has done for Man City.

This is Rice’s best role.

Even if there is better CDM’s like Caicedo- Rice is the best player for that false CB role.
 

Strootman's Finger

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:lol: :lol:
Your posts in this last page are very funny. Completely wrong and baseless, but very funny. Please continue.
About Rice, i think it will be done if it's not already agreed behind the scenes but i can't see us signing both him and Caicedo. We'd have to go back to Brighton with at least 70/80M for him too.
There's holes to fix in defence and a backup for Saka that will eat up a big portion of our summer budget.
Like I said, I think you'll get Rice, he is the same level of player Arsenal is club, ie one tier below the top.
 

CaseHero

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For the money suggested it's too much, we don't need Rice, he is far too pedestrian for my liking. We should be looking for a more dynamic player.
 

footyfan019

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He might be tier-2 but is still 24 years old.He could go a level up under the right system for United or Arsenal. Xhaka is leaving to Leverkusen, if Arsenal replace him with Rice then we have fixed one of our biggest weakness already. Partey and Xhaka midfield choked in the final 8-10 games and we definitely need upgrade on both.
 

golden_blunder

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It's such a bizarre thing, I think it's just become a throw away comment on this site that when someone doesn't like a suggested option they just shit on it and suggest Teilemans instead. The guy has been useless for 2 years, do these people even watch football? Maybe we should just sign Wesley Sneijder. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Teilemans playing in the championship with Leicester next season, I haven't seen enough to justify otherwise.
Honestly I reckon one of you lot could put on your boots and do more in a game than Tielemans. So overrated
 
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