Potentially better:
Last edited:
Why Man Utd were so bad against Wolves (Tifo)
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Potentially better:
So I've just watched the highlights of last nights game and, oh boy, we seemed extremely fortunate to come away with all 3 points.
It got ridiculous once the third wave of Wolve's penetrative attack broke down at the last moment due to a lack of composure. Any other team and it would've been curtains, you'd imagine.
Comfortably bursting through our midfield at ease, which we've tended to notice during recent pre-season games.
Thankfully the one piece of quality we managed to muster up last night resulted in a goal.
Regarding the PK shout for Wolves, I think it could've swung either way. Was expecting it to be more clear cut, due to the massive amount of coverage its received. But Onana, minor that incident, looked assured.
Onwards and upwards but, yeah, we have to do much better .
It got ridiculous once the third wave of Wolve's penetrative attack broke down at the last moment due to a lack of composure. Any other team and it would've been curtains, you'd imagine.
Comfortably bursting through our midfield at ease, which we've tended to notice during recent pre-season games.
Thankfully the one piece of quality we managed to muster up last night resulted in a goal.
Regarding the PK shout for Wolves, I think it could've swung either way. Was expecting it to be more clear cut, due to the massive amount of coverage its received. But Onana, minor that incident, looked assured.
Onwards and upwards but, yeah, we have to do much better .
Tifo actually did an accurate vid this time
Well done to Wolves
The funny thing is Wan Bissaka was our best player on the night . Gary O Neil had his homework done and we didn’t seem to have a plan B because our players were still in pre season mode.
We're always bad against Wolves. The games are always shite. I don't need to watch a video explaining why 
They're just one of those teams who are kryptonite to others - main thing is the 3 points. Played rubbish, won the game. Bring on Spurs
They're just one of those teams who are kryptonite to others - main thing is the 3 points. Played rubbish, won the game. Bring on Spurs
One thing that has gone completely under the radar is that O'Neil is a decent manager. He did a great job keeping Bournemouth up last season with a really quite average squad. A lot of fans criticised the move not to keep him on, but it's possibly better for the long-term that they've brought Iraola in...perhaps. He'll do a good job with Wolves this season, I imagine. He set them up well and had them playing good football.
I imagine this is something ETH is going to have to get used to. There are no real easy games in this league and everybody will always be looking to put in a good shift against us. Especially if they know we can be got at.
Liked this video it was very insightful. I also liked Statman Daves analysis on the game and were it all went wrong.
Congratulations Wolves for playing out of your skin with the new manager bounce, and still losing the game. Bravo indeed.
Embarrassing that all everyone is talking about is how bad Man United played, how good Wolves played and the penalty controversy.
No talk whatsoever about a hard fought win and an important first win of the season.
Embarrassing that all everyone is talking about is how bad Man United played, how good Wolves played and the penalty controversy.
No talk whatsoever about a hard fought win and an important first win of the season.
New manager bounce.
It looked like one of those games where one team are a couple of weeks ahead in pre-season in terms of fitness and sharpness.
It was shocking how athletic some of the Wolves players looked in comparison with ours. Rashy and Garnacho easily outpaced and dealt with, our midfield utterly blown through at pace.
Hopefully just a loose tactical performance and we're up and running now.
It was shocking how athletic some of the Wolves players looked in comparison with ours. Rashy and Garnacho easily outpaced and dealt with, our midfield utterly blown through at pace.
Hopefully just a loose tactical performance and we're up and running now.
The problem I can see is that it was anything but hard fought, we were lazy and disorganised and v v lucky.
The players still put a shift in and were visibly trying, they just looked sluggish and rusty. We got the win, Wolves didn't. That is what matters. Performances can be worked on, but the win was more important.
Yes, that was also very good.
I’m so happy we’re finally starting to get some decent football tactical analysis after decades of “pundits” going over the same catalogue of cliches.
Don't agree with the AWB stuff. The stats don't even back up the claim. If they were all so happy for him to have the ball he'd have the most touches and passes. He saw no more of the ball than the opposite RB Semedo did.
Wolves made it difficult for all of our defenders to make the first pass. Their shape was pretty excellent and they positioned themselves well. They dared us to make passes in tight areas and we obviously didn't have the quality to execute.
We needed our defenders to run into the gaps to open up some space and AWB was the only one to do this. Strange to single him out in this game. It happened a lot last season where he was allowed the have the ball but I didn't feel that was the case on Monday.
Wolves made it difficult for all of our defenders to make the first pass. Their shape was pretty excellent and they positioned themselves well. They dared us to make passes in tight areas and we obviously didn't have the quality to execute.
We needed our defenders to run into the gaps to open up some space and AWB was the only one to do this. Strange to single him out in this game. It happened a lot last season where he was allowed the have the ball but I didn't feel that was the case on Monday.
Hard fought ? We hardly put a tackle in, we were sloppy in possession , we couldn’t make more than 3/4 passes and our midfield decided to go on vacation. It was so far away from hard fought .
I only lasted 5 minutes but will save everyone the full 17 minutes by summarising the answer he gives to the clickbaity title. Because we’re a shit team full of shit, predictable players. Which makes our third place finish last season a little confusing but ho hum.
That's completely excessive and misguided pontification.
The long and short of it was that Utd weren't fit and prepared enough for the new season - most players looked knackered as soon as the game kicked off, were off the pace, making sloppy touches and losing all their 50-50 duels. The players even somehow seemed less shot and more cohesive vs Arsenal in pre-season than they did vs Bilbao and Wolves.
As with the fitst couple of games last season, the match sharpness and team cohesiveness just weren't there. With those things rectified, the rest will start to fall in to place.
Whatever Ten Hag did after the Brentford game to magic the team to the required level fitness and unity wise, he needs to do again.
The long and short of it was that Utd weren't fit and prepared enough for the new season - most players looked knackered as soon as the game kicked off, were off the pace, making sloppy touches and losing all their 50-50 duels. The players even somehow seemed less shot and more cohesive vs Arsenal in pre-season than they did vs Bilbao and Wolves.
As with the fitst couple of games last season, the match sharpness and team cohesiveness just weren't there. With those things rectified, the rest will start to fall in to place.
Whatever Ten Hag did after the Brentford game to magic the team to the required level fitness and unity wise, he needs to do again.
The funny thing is Martinez and Varane actually played quite a few progressive forward passes, which negates this clowns whole supposed reason as to why United were so bad.
That's not a summary of the video I watched
I think that's half the story, the other is that Wolves are game raisers and I suspect their players always think they're in the shop window when they play the big teams.We're always bad against Wolves. The games are always shite. I don't need to watch a video explaining why
They're just one of those teams who are kryptonite to others - main thing is the 3 points. Played rubbish, won the game. Bring on Spurs
Finished 13rh last season but beat Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea in the second half of last season.
How far did you get?? Five minutes in and an entirely accurate summary would be we were getting owned by Wolves because nobody was capable of playing “brave passes”, Antony is a one trick pony, AWB is poor in possession and doesn’t overlap enough plus the movement of our front three is crap.
Now, to be fair, a lot of that is accurate but still…
All the way, it's not that bad he's got some right such as Wolves being compact and some wrong, I didn't feel like AWB was being ignored (if so that's fecking stupid).
I said some thing similar in the Casemiro/Bruno/Mount thread as why the box midfield with Shaw wont work, its because of how our right wing is playing.
We need a better RB/back 3 with an RCB like Pavard or get a second midfielder alongside Casemiro to play something like that
It's funny that Youtubers are delivering a bit of tactical insight while the former top level professionals on the subscription TV channels are busy singing Usher songs.
It wasn't hard fought, it was lucky x 1000.
Man, I'm tired of that logic. We've played too many crap games in the last 5 years and instead of asking why we fluked a result, we kick the can further down the road until we play a good team and get absolutely battered.We're always bad against Wolves. The games are always shite. I don't need to watch a video explaining why
They're just one of those teams who are kryptonite to others - main thing is the 3 points. Played rubbish, won the game. Bring on Spurs
No one wants to admit that AWB is nowhere near good enough for a team that wants to compete.
The video is decent but they make it sound like wolves were impenetrable due to excellent execution. They were far from it.
- we forced mistakes from their back line and midfield on any number of occasions first half and we were responsible for wasting those chances by poor decision making and execution. If you take one of those chances the game changes. Wolves are chasing.
- we got space out wide on loads of occasions in that first half where Garnacho and Antony had a chance to run at the full back or play better final passes…they were just useless.
- when wolves pressed high and we skipped the first press into Garnacho or Rashford…or where Casemiro played quickly out to Antony, better attackers make the right choices and drive or create chances and hold the ball up- that moves the focus of play from across our back line to deep inside wolves half. That gives us a chance, when we do lose possession, to win it back again high up the field.
So imo the issue wasn’t the back line or wan Bissaka or even the tactic of how to beat that sort of press. It was Garnacho, Antony and Rashford not being good enough with their first touch, getting turned and giving us a platform to play our football further up the field. That’s where the benefits of Bruno and Mount could be utilised.
In that regard, none of Pellistri, Amad, Sancho or other attacking options are going to help - none are strong in possession.
As mad and bad as it sounds -with Hojlund still an unknown quantity, a fit Martial is the only attacker we have that can hold a ball up and bring others into play.
- we forced mistakes from their back line and midfield on any number of occasions first half and we were responsible for wasting those chances by poor decision making and execution. If you take one of those chances the game changes. Wolves are chasing.
- we got space out wide on loads of occasions in that first half where Garnacho and Antony had a chance to run at the full back or play better final passes…they were just useless.
- when wolves pressed high and we skipped the first press into Garnacho or Rashford…or where Casemiro played quickly out to Antony, better attackers make the right choices and drive or create chances and hold the ball up- that moves the focus of play from across our back line to deep inside wolves half. That gives us a chance, when we do lose possession, to win it back again high up the field.
So imo the issue wasn’t the back line or wan Bissaka or even the tactic of how to beat that sort of press. It was Garnacho, Antony and Rashford not being good enough with their first touch, getting turned and giving us a platform to play our football further up the field. That’s where the benefits of Bruno and Mount could be utilised.
In that regard, none of Pellistri, Amad, Sancho or other attacking options are going to help - none are strong in possession.
As mad and bad as it sounds -with Hojlund still an unknown quantity, a fit Martial is the only attacker we have that can hold a ball up and bring others into play.
I agree with much of what you say however I think Sancho and Amad are actually very secure in possession and would probably be better for this system.
"A really quite average squad" is I think a far kinder description than that squad merits. I'd say it was by some distance the weakest squad in the Premier League. So massive credit to O'Neil.
I think we’d have set up differently if O’Neil had taken charge of a friendly beforehand and we saw how they were going to play.
Plus all the names that have played for them over the years like Neves, Moutinho, Jiminez and Traore… players that they’re used to are all gone so nobody quite knew how they were going to set up, on top of a new manager. On one hand it’s a blow to Wolves and you could reasonably conclude that United should beat them based on that and on the other it can be used as an advantage as nobody knows how you’re going to play.
Remember that Arsenal home game where Rashford made his home league debut in 2016? We were missing a bunch of starters like Rooney, Martial, Smalling. Carrick had to play centre back. Varela was right back and Rashford was starting up front on his 2nd senior game. I remember people fearing the worst because Arsenal were in better form, a better team than us and we were injury hit, but Arsenal were uncharacteristically frazzled due to having to deal with players they’d barely seen before and players playing in different positions than usual. The result was we won and Arsenal looked shaky and unsure.
Plus all the names that have played for them over the years like Neves, Moutinho, Jiminez and Traore… players that they’re used to are all gone so nobody quite knew how they were going to set up, on top of a new manager. On one hand it’s a blow to Wolves and you could reasonably conclude that United should beat them based on that and on the other it can be used as an advantage as nobody knows how you’re going to play.
Remember that Arsenal home game where Rashford made his home league debut in 2016? We were missing a bunch of starters like Rooney, Martial, Smalling. Carrick had to play centre back. Varela was right back and Rashford was starting up front on his 2nd senior game. I remember people fearing the worst because Arsenal were in better form, a better team than us and we were injury hit, but Arsenal were uncharacteristically frazzled due to having to deal with players they’d barely seen before and players playing in different positions than usual. The result was we won and Arsenal looked shaky and unsure.
so basically:
1. AWB is crap on the ball so he was given all the time in the world by the wolves players. Reminds me when we faced Ajax in EL Final few years ago, Davidson Sanchez was Ajax's weakest link so Mourinho let him have the ball knowning that he cant really hurt us.
2. Casemiro was isolated by players lining up in front of him, again. Bruno and Mount were too high, Garnacho and Antony were too wide.
These are the same old stories just like last season, no? people loved talking about how we played more "structured" under ETH (whatever that means) but how can he is so blind to these obvious problems? Signing Amrabat wont change anything, because the real problem is how we "structure" our football, not the quality of our players.
1. AWB is crap on the ball so he was given all the time in the world by the wolves players. Reminds me when we faced Ajax in EL Final few years ago, Davidson Sanchez was Ajax's weakest link so Mourinho let him have the ball knowning that he cant really hurt us.
2. Casemiro was isolated by players lining up in front of him, again. Bruno and Mount were too high, Garnacho and Antony were too wide.
These are the same old stories just like last season, no? people loved talking about how we played more "structured" under ETH (whatever that means) but how can he is so blind to these obvious problems? Signing Amrabat wont change anything, because the real problem is how we "structure" our football, not the quality of our players.
They’ve been our bogey team for far too long. Can’t wait to see them get relegatedWe're always bad against Wolves. The games are always shite. I don't need to watch a video explaining why
They're just one of those teams who are kryptonite to others - main thing is the 3 points. Played rubbish, won the game. Bring on Spurs
Pretty much this, TIFO were good for data analysis and a bit of entertainment, they aren't great at watching games without letting lazy narratives prevail.
It had a bit to do with Wolves but most to do with the fact that our players weren't up for it. We lost 80% of all duels, our players looked lacklustre and half-asleep. Some of our players didnt even bother to run.
Gary O'Neil is a good coach, pretty harshly treated at Bournemouth. Also he seemed to show up the limitations of this inverted full-back set-up with a flat, high-press 4-4-2. 4-4-2 might come back in vogue as a counter to this.
Yeah, that's fair to say. Credit definitely deserved for that.
Desperate for us to play our next game now. I think everyone will feel a lot better if we get a big victory somewhere, or if we manage to score more than 2 goals. We just need to win the next game and win it well. Tough game to call against Spurs. We drew it 2-2 last year after being 2-0 up.
I mean to be fair, we were really bad, and Wolves did play well - very well considering everyone thought they were in disarray before this game.
And most coverage has said that it does show how we can still play badly and win.