Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Redlambs]

The sad reality is this happens more and more but only the high profile cases are the ones we see and discuss.

As moronic as I think some people here are, I genuinely hope it never happens to any of you them because there'll be no coming back from it, no year long investigations, no media exposure. Just you, falsified evidence and your life destroyed beyond repair.

So you are categorically stating she falsified that evidence. Correct?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

It was banned for discussion on here, but twitter and reddit carried plenty of chatter still.

Agreed but I don’t think Twitter/Reddit are a fair representation of the whole United fanbase either.

 

[arnie_ni]

Her father said her account was hacked. In any event, I don’t think this line of queries should be explored.

I wasn't querying anything. I just couldn't remember if it was her or if it was leaked

 

[pocco]

The club statement is astonishingly unambiguous on the key point. It isn’t that they don’t consider that there is sufficient evidence that he didn’t do it. The wording is cast iron certain that he did not commit the offences “for which he was originally charged”. That rules out attempted rape, assault and coercive behaviour. They must be absolutely certain that is the case for them to have worded it that way.

I genuinely don’t know what to make of this any more. It feels it leaves a lot of unanswered questions and it will be interesting to see what happens if he does want to continue playing in this country or tries to return in future.

Yeah but they preempted all of that by saying they didn't have access to all the evidence or statements.

 

[Cassidy]

Such a odd state of affairs all around. If I didn't do what I was accused of and it ruined my career. I'd have jumped ship. Can't connect the dots on this at all. From all parties POV

Plenty of people exist in dysfunctional relationships.

 

[arnie_ni]

Its already been explained, the anonymity of the victim has to be maintained by law

Yes but the only way for united to get him back and appease the majority would be to release that evidence. There was never a hope in hell of bringing him back without releasing their findings. That was idiotic of them to think otherwise.

 

[Redlambs]

Agreed but I don’t think Twitter/Reddit are a fair representation of the whole United fanbase either.

They definitely aren't.

But the point being, on here up until last week it wasn't allowed to be discussed. So alluding to people not genuinely giving a shite based on that shouldn't be a thing. I'm not saying I don't think that's true in some cases though.

 

[Doracle]

I appreciate that, I have read the statement, but it comes across to me as a stopping short of an actual declaration of his innocence. Just my reading of their choice of language.

It’s surprisingly concrete. I wouldn’t have expected the club to say anything like that. They must be absolutely certain, with no room for any doubt whatsoever, that he is entirely innocent of the charges originally brought.

 

[spiriticon]

You are innocent until proven guilty - you can be either innocent or guilty. He was effectively declared innocent when the case was dropped legally at least. There is no third category. You can form your own opinions but that’s all they are. Right decision in the circumstances but he is not a guilty man.

You can be neither innocent nor guilty due to the lack of evidence to prove either way.

Then it comes down to the public opinion. Some people believe in innocent until proven guilty. Others believe in guilty until proven innocent. Neither opinion is wrong.

This is the situation we have today.

 

[arnie_ni]

Apparently her in the early hours of the morning. Nothing has disputed that and Greenwood's statement seems to confirm it.

Ta. I couldn't remember

 

[hp88]

Got an email from the boss

Spoiler

​ Dear GB Now that we have concluded and announced the outcome of the club's investigation into Mason Greenwood, I want to be direct and transparent with our fans about the process and the reasons for our decision. This was an internal disciplinary investigation between employer and employee which would ordinarily take place outside of the public eye. Given the public nature of the allegations and Mason's profile, I acknowledge that this was not an ordinary situation, but I felt it important that we still follow due process and, so far as possible, avoid media comment until I had made a definitive decision. When audio footage and imagery was posted online in January 2022, my feelings were of shock and concern for the alleged victim. Her welfare, wishes and perspective have been central to the club's approach ever since, as have the club’s standards and values. While we immediately concluded that Mason should be suspended pending investigation, we were also conscious of our duty of care towards him and the importance of making a decision based on full information. Until February this year, this was a matter for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service. It was only when charges were dropped that the club discussed the allegations with Mason and others involved in the case. Our investigation sought to collate as much evidence as possible to establish facts and context. This was not a quick or straightforward process for a variety of reasons. It was essential for us to respect the rights and wishes of the alleged victim. Also, we have limited powers of investigation which meant we were reliant on third party cooperation. Timings have also been influenced by my desire to minimise the impact of the investigation on our men's and women's teams, as well as our Lionesses. I acknowledge that this gave more time for speculation, but the alternative would have been to compromise due process or create untimely disruption. While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with. I am restricted as to what I can say for legal reasons, including the alleged victim's ongoing right to anonymity, but I am able to share the following with you which should give you some insight into the complexity of this case:​ The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022. We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online. The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings. Last week the media reported that we had decided to reintegrate Mason and that elements of a plan to do so had been leaked to them. Reintegration was one of the outcomes we considered and planned for. For context, over the course of the past six months several outcomes have been contemplated and planned for, and my view has evolved as our process progressed. While the ultimate decision rested with me, I was taking various factors and views into account right up until the point of finalising my decision. While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with, Mason’s accepted that he has made mistakes which he takes responsibility for. I am also mindful of the challenge that Mason would face rebuilding his career and raising a baby together with his partner in the harsh spotlight of Manchester United. Further, this case has provoked strong opinions, and it is my responsibility to minimise any distraction to the unity we are seeking within the club. Although we have decided that Mason will seek to rebuild his career away from Manchester United, that does not signal the end of this matter. The club will continue to offer its support both to the alleged victim and Mason to help them rebuild and move forward positively with their lives. Thank you for your continued support,​

​ Richard Arnold Chief Executive Officer​

Read this earlier, the bullet points at the end really got to me and to be honest Arnold needs sacking for the statement alone.

"We were provided with alternative explanations" WTF does that even mean, you can't cover this shit up as misunderstanding.

 

[Devil You Know]

I know I'm going to get it for saying this, but I've always thought that picture was weird.

Busted lips are normally on the inside, also there was zero blood on her top.

Anyway, congratulations to the couple and I hope they find piece and a good place to raise their child.

Maybe I've just become cynical after the Amber Heard case

This is my first time seeing that picture again since January 2022. At the time I was as disgusted and horrified as anyone. But looking at it again in the cold light of day, it doesn't look real.

A busted lip doesn't smear blood under your chin against gravity and it doesn't then turn a corner to trickle down your throat like that. And anytime I've bled, my first instinct is to touch the wound and/or hold it. There's no sign of any of that.

I've had a busted lip and I've also had halloween makeup as a vampire. This image looks more like the latter.

 

[arnie_ni]

Plenty of people exist in dysfunctional relationships.

And as I said I can't understand it.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes but the only way for united to get him back and appease the majority would be to release that evidence. There was never a hope in hell of bringing him back without releasing their findings. That was idiotic of them to think otherwise.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not surprised anymore by the club making idiotic decisions

 

[TsuWave]

Yeah, there were apparently loads of posts and it was well known how mutually toxic the relationship was. I think the United statement intimates that.

Here are a couple of the forum posts. I've edited out the girl invoved's name:

1

2

There were 15 screenshots on Reddit. Orla Sloan, the girl they mention a few times, was the girl who was recently in court for stalking Mason Mount.

I think I said it the first time I saw that "daddy" video that they just struck me as teenage kids wanting to be grown-ups and emulating toxic behaviours.

I see it a lot with young kids in my neighbourhood.

 

[arnie_ni]

It’s surprisingly concrete. I wouldn’t have expected the club to say anything like that. They must be absolutely certain, with no room for any doubt whatsoever, that he is entirely innocent of the charges originally brought.

Read it the same as you. Can't believe they said that.

 

[JezChan]

So you've seen the pictures and heard the recording and that's all you've concluded he said?

I believe in due process. I head the recording and heard that Mason Greenwood in this situation treated a woman inhumanely. I see the pictures and accept the gravity of the allegations. I haven't seen or heard enough to conclude that without reasonable doubt that the pictures of alleged injury were caused by MG.

If a trial did go forward, and the key witness decided to continue complying with CPS then there possibly could have been enough evidence to convict.

I'm not saying he didn't do the things that he's accused of. There are barriers to overcome when it comes to convictions, and in our court of public opinion, it seems you have been convinced and I haven't yet.

 

[NicolaSacco]

It’s surprisingly concrete. I wouldn’t have expected the club to say anything like that. They must be absolutely certain, with no room for any doubt whatsoever, that he is entirely innocent of the charges originally brought.

It’s interesting, and not how I read that statement at all.

 

[StorDienst]

Horendous shitshow by management of this continually regresing club reconstructed around idea of profit. Money driven decesions that have nothing to do with football anymore. We knew that, but this saga shows it clearly. MG aside, Im out of supporting this club till the moment the leaches are out. That should be our only aim now.


And the best comment I ve read here, unfortunatelly dont remember on what page and whos the author:

Because it's not about innocent or guilty -it's about expediency. People can be mobilized into frenzies which aren't powerful to alter things like government policy for the better or even to get the Glazers out of the club, but are enough to cause 'branding' issues that affect 'partnership' relationships, particularly when people want to demonstrate they're upright and virtuous and social media offers a frictionless way of doing so. Interest groups and rival fans will also latch onto this. What's 'true' in terms of being verifiable and a justifiable statement to make, what's principled or responsible or even what corresponds to justice under the law has nothing to do with it. You'll be very validated for making libellous statements about someone cleared by the law - it's virtually no cost.

The lead Glazers would make a resurrected Jimmy Saville youth-team manager if it made them enough money and they could also secure a lock-tight guarantee there'd be no legal repercussions or outcry following it. There isn't a shred of morality or idea of the public good' associated with these people. Look at how they treat the fans, the cynicism even by the standards of the club as corporate machine in today's environment, as well as the causes they support outside of football. We can never expect anything 'good' to come from them, except by accident or through employees 'lower' in the chain, like sporting management, performing well in their own roles despite the leadership, or taking stands where these are actually merited.


Feck Glazers, feck Marketing United FC.

 

[Doracle]

Whilst also stating he did do something/things.

That's an important part as it suggests that whatever the explanation of the evidence, he definitely did something. He confirms that too.

Not something criminal though, as if the club had evidence that was the case they’d have to give that to the Police.

 

[Doracle]

It’s interesting, and not how I read that statement at all.

There is no other way to read “While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with”.

 

[pocco]

Read this earlier, the bullet points at the end really got to me and to be honest Arnold needs sacking for the statement alone.

"We were provided with alternative explanations" WTF does that even mean, you can't cover this shit up as misunderstanding.

He needs to be in fans cross hairs next. What he's done is disgusting and it's very obvious what has happened. Yet we've still got people drinking the kool aid.

 

[arnie_ni]

To be perfectly honest, I'm not surprised anymore by the club making idiotic decisions

I won't be in the future.

 

[JPRouve]

If it’s on the basis of something ‘bigger than football’ & a large part of the messaging [bar 2 flimsy statements] has come from an external source leaking information from outside the institution then yes I’d expect the furore to endure once said person left because it’s not about Manchester United, it’s about ‘more than’.

Put it this way. . .

I would ask, what is it that makes you not want Greenwood to play for United? Bit Rhetorical as we all know the answer.

I’d then ask, given the answer why are you okay with him playing football at all?

I’m not asking people to legislate where he plays, I’m actually saying the opposite. This whole thing for many hinges on the victim, as I think it should too, so him playing for United or elsewhere is to me irrelevant.

There was a decent argument made in the other MG thread about how United position themselves as ‘better than’ so shouldn’t need to scrape the barrel for talent. I could get that. What I don’t get are people acting like him not playing here but literally being available to the rest of world football is a win for United. Distance doesn’t rewrite history.

You didn't address the point and instead went into actual mental gymnastics. When you decide to not associate with someone which is something that likely happened in your life, do you also try to legislate on whether that person should associate with someone that has nothing to do with you?

It's a very simple and basic question answered by yes or no. Do you legislate the relationship decisions of people that have nothing to do with you?

 

[ExoduS]

I can't stand by this kind of thinking. I agree with getting MG out - the public information is that MG said misogynistic things that have no place in society.

To say that he will reoffend sooner or later - I categorically reject that people can't experience remorse, receive support, and change. It is difficult to do, but not impossible. I'd rather live with hope for a brighter future than cynically view the world and people in it as irredeemable.

I hope I'm wrong as if I am correct someone will suffer. People can change, yes.

 

[Redlambs]

Not something criminal though, as if the club had evidence that was the case they’d have to give that to the Police.

But something that started the whole chain of events though.

Which gives them an out.

 

[Withnail]

Really Withnail? In what way? Car crash of a decision if you ask me.

Well that's what I mean. It was the only decision they could and should have made imo. They've bungled the process and look like idiots but they got there in the end.

However, I was talking about your categorisation of the police investigation. They followed their process and decided there was case to bring against him. The case fell apart after the complainant withdrew support and statement. I don't see how that reflects in what you wrote.

 

[Smores]

Exactly what I'm saying. They had no reason to word it like that. To me, they are 100 percent certain it didn't happen

That's the judgment you take from a HR investigation that they called out as limited and reliant on third party statements? Strange disclaimers for 100% certainty.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

Thank god.

 

[lsd]

I do wonder what the media narrative will be now when another club signs him.

No doubt it will then be "ah he's been punished enough he deserves a second chance" if someone like Arsenal take him as opposed to would be disgusting for United to play him again

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

They definitely aren't.

But the point being, on here up until last week it wasn't allowed to be discussed. So alluding to people not genuinely giving a shite based on that shouldn't be a thing. I'm not saying I don't think that's true in some cases though.

I’ve addressed on multiple occasions in multiple threads that the point of ‘not genuinely giving a shite’ [as you put it] is about the majority of United fans, the ambivalent ones, who don’t frequent internet forums & just want to go to/watch the games.

It’s getting awfully tiring having to pat multiple forum members on the back & tell them their feelings are justified because they refuse to actually read my posts. I have acknowledged the feelings on here from the news breaking.

 

[NicolaSacco]

There is no other way to read “While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with”.

I appreciate your certainty, but I don’t share it. As had been said before, I think it unlikely that we will see too many minds changed though.

 

[JezChan]

I hope I'm wrong as if I am correct someone will suffer. People can change, yes.

That we can agree on. I hope MG can change, but I'm not blind to the possibility that he won't.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I don't know why the club is getting so much grief still, Kaveh couldn't wait to tell everyone that Arnold was leaning the other way a couple of weeks ago, so what? What's wrong with leaking a bit of information and then listening to the reaction from it, ultimately the right decsion has been made.

Not sure many other clubs would have done the same given the sort of player we are talking about here.

 

[Cassidy]

It’s interesting, and not how I read that statement at all.

How else can you read: "While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with”.
There is no other way you can read that.

So either you think he is lying or you think he is being naive, but he clearly said what he said.

 

[SirScholes]

Not arguing that travel isn't a great opportunity for children at a young age. Commenting more on the difficulties of settling into a new country and the strains that can put on relationships even when you both get to pick the country, saw plenty of ex-pat marriages implode in HK and Singapore including some that became violent.

Fair one
Sorry

I mean they did:
"Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged".

They didn't need to say half of what they said in the statement. Honestly it raises more questions than it gives answers.

i imagine it’s so greenwood can say to future clubs, “they didn’t release me because I tried to force my gf to have sex”
Makes it easier for him to move on
And legally if we Utd said yer he’s guilty, surely we’d be in hot water
Horrible mess
Let’s just be happy it’s over

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I do wonder what the media narrative will be now when another club signs him.

No doubt it will then be "ah he's been punished enough he deserves a second chance" if someone like Arsenal take him as opposed to would be disgusting for United to play him again

Yep.

 

[SirScholes]

I don't know why the club is getting so much grief still, Kaveh couldn't wait to tell everyone that Arnold was leaning the other way a couple of weeks ago, so what? What's wrong with leaking a bit of information and then listening to the reaction from it, ultimately the right decsion has been made.

Not sure many other clubs would have done the same given the sort of player we are talking about here.

You’re 100% correct

 

[arnie_ni]

It’s interesting, and not how I read that statement at all.

How can you read it any differently? The literally say the words he didn't do what he was accused it. Its a black and white as it can get.

 

[arnie_ni]

That's the judgment you take from a HR investigation that they called out as limited and reliant on third party statements? Strange disclaimers for 100% certainty.

"Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged"