Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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BluesJr said:
Crafton dictated club policy. Zero backbone at the club. Whatever decision you make, whether it's right or wrong, don't let a journalist decide for you.
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Agree. I have found that with the Athletic in regards to discussions about the bidding process. They seem to favour Ratcliffe.
 
Yorke to Cole said:
Agree. I have found that with the Athletic in regards to discussions about the bidding process. They seem to favour Ratcliffe.
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Cant stand that idiot Carl Anka either. They asked him his initial thoughts about the Athletic piece when it broke the other day and he said something about just donating to a womens charity. Fair enough but the way and place he said it was like "Look at me and how good a person I am"
 
Buster15 said:
Yes indeed.
In truth, no one comes out of this with anything other than a total mess.
And what I despise is that yet again, the gutter press and all the hangers on and all the self appointed instant experts out there have been handed on a plate the opportunity to put the boot into our club.
So I am desperately looking forward to something resembling good news..... please.
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Better ownership and better subordinates at the club can help with. Consequently, the manager can get on with the team.
 
I'm gutted it happened the way it did. He is a hell of a prospect, but I always believed there is no excusing him had he been found guilty. As he was never found guilty, I felt he should be allowed to play under condition that even tiniest whiff of further issues then hes out on his arse. Might be old fashioned of me, but I would like to think my employer would stand by me.

I feel we jumped so fast into suspending him it was only ever going to end up this way because we all but confirmed his guilt. We've completely succumbed to the trial by social media then dithered over the decision for so long. It got to the point where everyone knew United business, who they had spoke to or who they wanted to hear from that we genuinely look a weak institution on and off the pitch. I would like Arnold to resign as CEO as he has handled this beyond poorly. He has created a precedent now and it all starts again with Antony and we will have to fire him too.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I'm not sure I fully agree with that. When the controversies are egregious enough (e.g. Ray Rice, Michael Vick, Darren Sharper) or have graphic evidence that the tabloids can profit from, they absolutely make national news.
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They make national news, but sport organizations are less immune to public outcry.

Vick came back. Sharper is still in jail (deservedly). And Rice was a RB and on the tail end of his shelf life.
 
Berbaclass said:
Cant stand that idiot Carl Anka either. They asked him his initial thoughts about the Athletic piece when it broke the other day and he said something about just donating to a womens charity. Fair enough but the way and place he said it was like "Look at me and how good a person I am"
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Carl Anka is a great journo and it wasn’t virtu signalling, he’s made his views on the matter pretty clear throughout.
 
Red in STL said:
That maybe the case, but not all crimes are necessarily prosecuted so it still could be either

Something I still don't fully understand is that this first came to light in Feb 2022 (I think), apparently the GF asked the police to drop the case in Apr 2022, the police obviously didn't do that but he wasn't charged until Oct 2022 and the case was then dropped in Feb 2023, so what happened between Apr and Oct 2022, if she wanted the charges dropped she wasn't going to testify, they must have known that - something odd going on here to me but I'be no idea what!
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Cause In these cases, they will try and get as much evidence without the victim, as possible. They can compel the victim to give evidence but that victim may just end up blowing the case on the stand.
 
The wording of each of the statements is interesting and quite instructive in their own ways. They read, naturally enough, like the 5th or 6th draft worked on by several teams of lawyers. I've added bits in bold which stood out to me.

United's statement

Manchester United has concluded its internal investigation into the allegations made against Mason Greenwood.
Our process commenced in February 2023, following all charges against Mason being dropped. Throughout, we have taken into account the wishes, rights and perspective of the alleged victim (they have clearly canvassed the views of his partner, which she would seem to have offered)
along with the club’s standards and values, and sought to collate as much information and context as possible. This has required us to proceed with sensitivity and care to obtain evidence not in the public domain, including from those with direct knowledge of the case.

Based on the evidence available to us (the first caveat in relation to how much actual evidence they have to ground their assessment), we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences (they're referring to his conduct not reaching the criminal threshold, rather than trying to pretend he did nothing) in respect of which he was originally charged. That said, as Mason publicly acknowledges today, he has made mistakes which he is taking responsibility for (deliberately vague and referring to the moral aspect rather than criminal)

All those involved, including Mason, recognise the difficulties with him recommencing his career at Manchester United. It has therefore been mutually agreed that it would be most appropriate for him to do so away from Old Trafford, and we will now work with Mason to achieve that outcome.
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Richard Arnold, Manchester United CEO, has written this letter to our supporters...

Now that we have concluded and announced the outcome of the club's investigation into Mason Greenwood, I want to be direct and transparent with our fans about the process and the reasons for our decision.

This was an internal disciplinary investigation between employer and employee which would ordinarily take place outside of the public eye. Given the public nature of the allegations and Mason's profile, I acknowledge that this was not an ordinary situation, but I felt it important that we still follow due process and, so far as possible, avoid media comment until I had made a definitive decision.

When audio footage and imagery was posted online in January 2022, my feelings were of shock and concern for the alleged victim. Her welfare, wishes and perspective have been central to the club's approach ever since (same wording as in the club's statement, again highlighting her wishes being taken into account), as have the club’s standards and values. While we immediately concluded that Mason should be suspended pending investigation, we were also conscious of our duty of care towards him and the importance of making a decision based on full information. Until February this year, this was a matter for the police and the Crown Prosecution Service. It was only when charges were dropped that the club discussed the allegations with Mason and others involved in the case.

Our investigation sought to collate as much evidence as possible to establish facts and context. This was not a quick or straightforward process for a variety of reasons (this is notable, as there were two people in the room that day and we're being told they're both on the same page. Adding context to their relationship, for example, is fine, but it doesn't really address the substance of the allegations). It was essential for us to respect the rights and wishes of the alleged victim (respect yes, adhere to, no). Also, we have limited powers of investigation which meant we were reliant on third party cooperation (the first hint that, actually, in terms of investigating, they may have been stonewalled by one or all of the people involved) . Timings have also been influenced by my desire to minimise the impact of the investigation on our men's and women's teams, as well as our Lionesses. I acknowledge that this gave more time for speculation, but the alternative would have been to compromise due process or create untimely disruption.

While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect (the full audio? A complete witness statement as regards the events?) the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with (a not very clever way of saying that absent of any evidence or testimony that he committed the offences and owing to the fact that he and his partner were either in a line as regards what happened or at least that she wasn't contesting his account, that they were not in a position to conclude, supported by corroborative evidence, that he did what he was accused of). I am restricted as to what I can say for legal reasons, including the alleged victim's ongoing right to anonymity, but I am able to share the following with you which should give you some insight into the complexity of this case:

- The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022 (3 months after the alleged offences. Seems a long time if, for example, the context of incident was wildly different than what would be inferred by the audio).
- We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online. (By whom? Were you provided with the longer recording, or just a statement that it exists, perhaps by either Greenwood, his partner, or both?)
- The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings (Did they avail of that opportunity or was it simply offered? Them not disagreeing with whatr Greenwood said, or simply agreeing with what he said, would be wildly different that them giving their own account)
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...b-statement-on-mason-greenwood-21-august-2023
Last week the media reported that we had decided to reintegrate Mason and that elements of a plan to do so had been leaked to them. Reintegration was one of the outcomes we considered and planned for. For context, over the course of the past six months several outcomes have been contemplated and planned for, and my view has evolved as our process progressed. While the ultimate decision rested with me, I was taking various factors and views into account right up until the point of finalising my decision.

While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with, Mason’s accepted that he has made mistakes which he takes responsibility for (it's just that no one is willing to say what mistakes he made). I am also mindful of the challenge that Mason would face rebuilding his career and raising a baby together with his partner in the harsh spotlight of Manchester United. Further, this case has provoked strong opinions, and it is my responsibility to minimise any distraction to the unity we are seeking within the club.

Although we have decided that Mason will seek to rebuild his career away from Manchester United, that does not signal the end of this matter. The club will continue to offer its support both to the alleged victim and Mason to help them rebuild and move forward positively with their lives.

Thank you for your continued support,

Richard Arnold
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Greenwood said in a statement: "I want to start by saying I understand that people will judge me because of what they have seen and heard on social media, and I know people will think the worst.

"I was brought up to know that violence or abuse in any relationship is wrong, I did not do the things I was accused of and in February I was cleared of all charges (The proceedings were discontinued)

"However, I fully accept I made mistakes in my relationship (largely irrelevant here), and I take my share of responsibility for the situations which led to the social media post (this would seem to put paid to the idea it was all a sex game gone wrong). I am learning to understand my responsibilities to set a good example as a professional footballer, and I’m focused on the big responsibility of being a father, as well as a good partner.

"Today’s decision has been part of a collaborative process between Manchester United, my family and me. The best decision for us all, is for me to continue my football career away from Old Trafford, where my presence will not be a distraction for the club.

"I thank the club for their support since I joined aged seven. There will always be a part of me which is United. I am enormously grateful to my family and all my loved ones for their support, and it is now for me to repay the trust those around me have shown. I intend to be a better footballer, but most importantly a good father, a better person, and to use my talents in a positive way on and off the pitch."
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fps said:
They were absolutely going to try and bring him back into the first team squad until wider public opinion intervened. Imagine having to be his team-mate. A cloud lifted.
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Well, Arnold says that they planned for several scenarios, including bringing him back into the team. I actually thought at one point that there might be a statement from Greenwood along the lines of "I know I've been stupid but I've realised how stupid I've been and I'm committed to being a better person, etc, etc", followed by his return to the squad. The reality is, we don't know what's been going on behind the scenes, but I can't believe the sponsors would be anything but horrified to see him back, you have to assume the women players opposed it and I would think most of his team-mates would be very uncomfortable with him. I also think the club's lawyers would be telling them to follow due process to the letter. They're right to say it's ultimately a contractual matter between employer and employee, and that the club can't judge his guilt or innocence on matters of law.
 
M4YON said:
No nobody asked BUT it would be interesting to know what those differences are.
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In the States they're WAY more forgiving. A big Pittsburgh sports personality (Ben Roethlisberger) was accused of rape in a casino in 2008. It never did a thing to his career and he will be a first ballet Hall of Hamer and his number retired and yadda yadda. Hell, Kobe Bryant was accused of rape. Nothing happened. A player I saw frequently, named Pacman Jones, beat several partners, beat strippers, caused a near riot in a strip club with multiple people being shot point blank..and he now is a member of one of, if not the most successful sports programs in America that just got picked up by ESPN and will make millions. Michael Jordan had a severe gambling issue and has been accused of beating his then wife. Ray Lewis stabbed and murdered a man in Miami years ago. Plaxico Burress caught the Super Bowl winning touchdown then shot himself in the leg with an illegal firearm in a strip club afterwards. Adrian Peterson proudly stated he still beats his children with a switch a few years ago. Michael Irvine CUT A TEAMMATES THROAT during team haircut session and he's in the Hall of Fame and is all over American sports TV during the NFL season. Michael Vick operated a dog fighting ring and euthanized many dogs on his property. After a short prison sentence he returned to the NFL and made millions and got many more sponsorships. Lawrence Taylor got arrested just about every single off-season for drugs and beating prostitutes but he got to finish his Hall of Fame career on his terms in New York. There's so, so, so many instances of this that it's news for about 4 hours and Americans just forget about it.

It's way more uncommon for a squeaky clean athlete to thrive in America. It's almost part of their redemption story. Americans love a second chance story.
 
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macheda14 said:
Carl Anka is a great journo and it wasn’t virtu signalling, he’s made his views on the matter pretty clear throughout.
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I know who he is. It came across incredibly pompous and self righteous.
He made a right idiot of himself when talking about the Glazers on an Overlap thing recently.
 
So who's replacing our most promising academy graduate now so? I am willing to bet my kidneys we are not signing his replacement.
 
Buster15 said:
Yes indeed.
In truth, no one comes out of this with anything other than a total mess.
And what I despise is that yet again, the gutter press and all the hangers on and all the self appointed instant experts out there have been handed on a plate the opportunity to put the boot into our club.
So I am desperately looking forward to something resembling good news..... please.
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You simply refuse to learn anything. Even though I myself have proven some of what you think wrong, you still haven't changed one bit. Yet here you are still denigrating other posters with the "instant experts" jibe, when you yourself have acted exactly like that and been proven wrong.

"analytical mind" indeed.
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
I'm gutted it happened the way it did. He is a hell of a prospect, but I always believed there is no excusing him had he been found guilty. As he was never found guilty, I felt he should be allowed to play under condition that even tiniest whiff of further issues then hes out on his arse. Might be old fashioned of me, but I would like to think my employer would stand by me.

I feel we jumped so fast into suspending him it was only ever going to end up this way because we all but confirmed his guilt. We've completely succumbed to the trial by social media then dithered over the decision for so long. It got to the point where everyone knew United business, who they had spoke to or who they wanted to hear from that we genuinely look a weak institution on and off the pitch. I would like Arnold to resign as CEO as he has handled this beyond poorly. He has created a precedent now and it all starts again with Antony and we will have to fire him too.
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Don’t promise things you can’t take back
 
El-Manos said:
So who's replacing our most promising academy graduate now so? I am willing to bet my kidneys we are not signing his replacement.
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He hasn't been a factor anyway so doesn't matter. Pellistri might stay now which is good considering he's our best option off the right. Manager needs to wake up and realise that.
 
al tuna said:
In the States they're WAY more forgiving. A big Pittsburgh sports personality (Ben Roethlisberger) was accused of rape in a casino in 2008. It never did a thing to his career and he will be a first ballet Hall of Hamer and his number retired and yadda yadda. Hell, Kobe Bryant was accused of rape. Nothing happened. A player I saw frequently, named Pacman Jones, beat several partners, beat strippers, caused a near riot in a strip club with multiple people being shot point blank..and he now is a member of one of, if not the most successful sports programs in America that just got picked up by ESPN and will make millions. Michael Jordan had a severe gambling issue and has been accused of beating his then wife. Ray Lewis stabbed and murdered a man in Miami years ago. Plaxico Burress caught the Super Bowl winning touchdown then shot himself in the leg with an illegal firearm in a strip club afterwards. Adrian Peterson proudly stated he still beats his children with a switch a few years ago. Michael Irvine CUT A TEAMMATES THROAT during team haircut session and he's in the Hall of Fame and is all over American sports TV during the NFL season. Michael Vick operated a dog fighting ring and euthanized many dogs on his property. After a short prison sentence he returned to the NFL and made millions and got many more sponsorships. Lawrence Taylor got arrested just about every single off-season for drugs and beating prostitutes but he got to finish his Hall of Fame career on his terms in New York. There's so, so, so many instances of this that it's news for about 4 hours and Americans just forget about it.

It's way more uncommon for a squeaky clean athlete to thrive in America. It's almost part of their redemption story. Americans love a second chance story.
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Jesus, that's insane.
 
adexkola said:
This is not a gotcha.
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Crazy to even attempt that as a gotcha - considering Ronaldo returned to a hero’s welcome. It’s best to just accept that human nature is fickle and where people stand will be dependent on multiple factors.

Either way it feels as though most agree the least inflammatory decision has been made - so I don’t even see the point of gotcha attempts
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
I'm gutted it happened the way it did. He is a hell of a prospect, but I always believed there is no excusing him had he been found guilty. As he was never found guilty, I felt he should be allowed to play under condition that even tiniest whiff of further issues then hes out on his arse. Might be old fashioned of me, but I would like to think my employer would stand by me.

I feel we jumped so fast into suspending him it was only ever going to end up this way because we all but confirmed his guilt. We've completely succumbed to the trial by social media then dithered over the decision for so long. It got to the point where everyone knew United business, who they had spoke to or who they wanted to hear from that we genuinely look a weak institution on and off the pitch. I would like Arnold to resign as CEO as he has handled this beyond poorly. He has created a precedent now and it all starts again with Antony and we will have to fire him too.
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It was the trial by social media that I found most distasteful. Only a very small step from mob rule as others have also mentioned.
 
BluesJr said:
He hasn't been a factor anyway so doesn't matter. Pellistri might stay now which is good considering he's our best option off the right. Manager needs to wake up and realise that.
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It does bloody matter. You can't expect to let a player of his talent leave and not replace him. We literally have no threat up front with the exception of Rashford coming in from the left (not the striker version). We won't make top 4 with this lot.
 
El-Manos said:
It does bloody matter. You can't expect to let a player of his talent leave and not replace him. We literally have no threat up front with the exception of Rashford coming in from the left (not the striker version). We won't make top 4 with this lot.
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His talent is probably long gone, I'd be amazed if he came back to a good level. Also, was too slow for the very top level anyway.
 
BluesJr said:
His talent is probably long gone, I'd be amazed if he came back to a good level. Also, was too slow for the very top level anyway.
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Disagree but that's just my opinion. He was an elite talent, Garnacho is not on his level unfortunately.
 
NicolaSacco said:
I think the release of the video and audio made that impossible though. Sure, they could have *said* that, but isn’t that the situation we were in up until about 2 weeks ago? And then as soon as it somehow leaked that Utd were considering bringing him back it was made clear to them from multiple angles that it would be reputationally too damaging. There’s no hiding from that.
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in 2023 every digital evidence must go through forensic analysis to be accepted by the courts.
In a multibillion dollar business , why not get some girl to sleep with our rivals best player and accuse him if rape? It won’t stand in court but will waste a good 3yrs of the player’s career . Very dangerous slippery slope to walk into
 
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