Is this how far we have come? After years of knowing he isn't good enough for this club we now want him. The only way I'd have kept him is if it meant McT left.
Selling Fred was a mistake
- Thread starter Idxomer
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I don’t think selling Fred was a mistake at all, I think the mistake was not signing a similar player that was a massive upgrade and signing Mount instead as Mount wasn’t/isn’t needed with what we have/had already.
Obviously the prices for Rice and Caicedo were ridiculous so we wouldn’t have been in for them at those prices BUT that was the type of player we needed to bring in, a player who’s tactically and positionally sound with bundles of stamina to cover the pitch and make up for Casemiro’s lack of legs but also good on the ball so we wouldn’t struggle creatively.
If we had moved VdB and McTominay both on as well whilst bringing in Amrabat and not signing Mount we’d have been able to get the type of player we needed, Fred had to go and we’d all been saying this for years.
Obviously the prices for Rice and Caicedo were ridiculous so we wouldn’t have been in for them at those prices BUT that was the type of player we needed to bring in, a player who’s tactically and positionally sound with bundles of stamina to cover the pitch and make up for Casemiro’s lack of legs but also good on the ball so we wouldn’t struggle creatively.
If we had moved VdB and McTominay both on as well whilst bringing in Amrabat and not signing Mount we’d have been able to get the type of player we needed, Fred had to go and we’d all been saying this for years.
It wasn't a mistake selling him, yes he tried and had a great work rate but come on he just wasn't consistent enough one game 2/10 next 8/10.
It's like saying we should've kept De Gea after Onanas howler the other night, we need to move on from thinking like this.
It's like saying we should've kept De Gea after Onanas howler the other night, we need to move on from thinking like this.
I'll admit too that I'm not sure where he fits in, but I guess time will tell.
Lads, lads, lads 
. I have been away from the cafe this week and just come back to notice this thread. Sorry, Fred is a likable guy but with his age, contract situation and ETH progressing the squad it was 100% the right time for him to go.
. I have been away from the cafe this week and just come back to notice this thread. Sorry, Fred is a likable guy but with his age, contract situation and ETH progressing the squad it was 100% the right time for him to go.The mistake was buying Mount.
He has been injured all season
That hardly helps his cause. When he was playing he did feck all.
Get a grip, two games.
And here I was thinking Mystic Meg was dead, you’ve already seen his entire Utd career already!?
I think this is a season we will have to step back and suffer through to get better. Him leaving was part of that process but in an ideal world I would rather he stayed unless proper investment was going to happen in replacements.
I never wanted him. I hope he does come good but I'm doubtful.
No it was the right time for him to go ..
Ridiculous thread.
He was great on his day but far too inconsistent and never good enough for the top PL side. I hated playing the good Fred/bad Fred game.
He was great on his day but far too inconsistent and never good enough for the top PL side. I hated playing the good Fred/bad Fred game.
I may get a warning for this but my only reaction to the title was "looooooool".
United fans always focused on the things he couldn’t do and not on things he could do to help the team win. Fred was plenty good enough to be starting right now and would provide cover for casameiro and his dead legs.
Don't think it was wrong to sell him but watching players waltz through our midfield time and again, you can't help but wonder why nobody is even stepping in with those on-the-edge type of foul the Fred could pull off even when the opposition would get the better of him. There's been a timidity in our play all season. Mount and Amrabat need to bring that ability and willingness into the team.
That doesn't say much, to be fair. Almost anybody is better than McT and McT should not be here. Erik tries to sell him, except the m..f..r won't leave
The real mistake was not buying Amrabat in June so we could have had him ready to hit the grass, instead of out-of-form and injured
We also got very unlucky with Mount getting injured so quickly, but I would take Mount + Amrabat over inconsistent Fred, any day of the week
And let's not forget we have Mainoo... if he were not injured
We can have very capable midfield, and fairly deep one, if everybody is healthy and in form
We should have sold McT in addition to Fred. And Eriksen should not be starting. At this point ,we can only use Eriksen as an impact sub in some games
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Mount has played about a game and a half for us so far. To come to this conclusion already is truly baffling.
That was actually a big weakness of Fred. Especially on “bad Fred” days. He had a habit of being too honest, getting out-muscled and forlornly chasing an opposition player half the pitch when he could have stopped the attack at source. For some reason, this seemed to happen repeatedly every time we played Leicester.
Still think he’s badly missed. A season with no “good Fred” performances will leave us a lot weaker, unless someone new (or young) can step up. McTominay won’t, that’s for sure.
Didn’t you just describe Amrabat?
Selling Fred was the right decision. It's also entirely fair to say we have missed him the first few games this season. Both statements can be true.
Everyone's quick to point blame. We have missed Fred because Amrabat is unavailable so far. Mainoo and Hanninal are still to be incrementally brought in. The Mount as a CM experiment hasn't had much time to develop yet. And business wise, moving Fred on when he's nearing the end of his contract makes sense.
The alternatives would have been either: keep Fred, he plays a small role at the start of the season, and then spends the rest of the season not selected and collecting a wage and waiting for his contract to run out. Or, give him a new contract, block the pathway for Mainoo and Hannibal, he'd still likely be dropped sooner or later, and then he'd have a couple more years on his contract and we'd struggle to move him on.
It hurts seeing McTominay still in the side because Fred was always the better of the two. But I fully understand why moving on Fred first made business sense. Next summer I just hope we sign a replacement for McTominay before the season has started, and hopefully one or both of Mainoo and Hannibal are by then legitimate options to start regularly at this level. Given Eriksen's time is nearly up (and arguably already not a reliable option in a midfield two), we will possibly need 2 CMs next summer, unless Mainoo and Hannibal both have fantastic seasons this year, or Mount has a remarkable transformation as a number 8.
Everyone's quick to point blame. We have missed Fred because Amrabat is unavailable so far. Mainoo and Hanninal are still to be incrementally brought in. The Mount as a CM experiment hasn't had much time to develop yet. And business wise, moving Fred on when he's nearing the end of his contract makes sense.
The alternatives would have been either: keep Fred, he plays a small role at the start of the season, and then spends the rest of the season not selected and collecting a wage and waiting for his contract to run out. Or, give him a new contract, block the pathway for Mainoo and Hannibal, he'd still likely be dropped sooner or later, and then he'd have a couple more years on his contract and we'd struggle to move him on.
It hurts seeing McTominay still in the side because Fred was always the better of the two. But I fully understand why moving on Fred first made business sense. Next summer I just hope we sign a replacement for McTominay before the season has started, and hopefully one or both of Mainoo and Hannibal are by then legitimate options to start regularly at this level. Given Eriksen's time is nearly up (and arguably already not a reliable option in a midfield two), we will possibly need 2 CMs next summer, unless Mainoo and Hannibal both have fantastic seasons this year, or Mount has a remarkable transformation as a number 8.
What we lack is control, not running.
He's only missed when your ideal football side consists of four attacking players doing whatever the hell they want (which means little to nothing defensively) and the rest of the team trying desperately to mop up the mess. That was Solskjaer's cultural revolution that had us with Maguire/Varane and McT/Fred as our engine after half a billion Euros spent.
The fact that players with good vision and passing range look completely lost in our midfield at times and one of the best defensive midfielders in the world looks ready for a retirement home is an indictment for the way we play the game and a cry for the ship to change course. Not for doubling down. Feck me, we spent the most part from the late 00s to the early 10s winning titles with the 30+ Scholes and Giggs in the midfield, Real Madrid have wrapped Kroos and Modric in cotton wool, Klopp and Arteta have moved on to one DM with two creative players combos in the midfield, and here we are talking about the importance of Fred.
He's only missed when your ideal football side consists of four attacking players doing whatever the hell they want (which means little to nothing defensively) and the rest of the team trying desperately to mop up the mess. That was Solskjaer's cultural revolution that had us with Maguire/Varane and McT/Fred as our engine after half a billion Euros spent.
The fact that players with good vision and passing range look completely lost in our midfield at times and one of the best defensive midfielders in the world looks ready for a retirement home is an indictment for the way we play the game and a cry for the ship to change course. Not for doubling down. Feck me, we spent the most part from the late 00s to the early 10s winning titles with the 30+ Scholes and Giggs in the midfield, Real Madrid have wrapped Kroos and Modric in cotton wool, Klopp and Arteta have moved on to one DM with two creative players combos in the midfield, and here we are talking about the importance of Fred.
This fecking thread needs to be deleted.
Didn’t you notice that ETH is trying to move on to this as well?
This is the correct take.
Selling Fred was not a mistake. Selling Fred before McTominay was a mistake. Buying Mount was a mistake.
It’s not the correct take at all. Not until Mount (and Amrabat) have at least had a chance to play a few games for us. Writing new signings off after a couple of games (or before they’ve even kicked a ball!) is never a correct take.
I am not saying Mount was a bad buy, but he doesnt add balance to our midfield. I really hope Amrabat does and people who see him regular say he does, but his defensive stats are woeful on paper so I am worried.
I did notice. That's why i am not among the people screaming their lungs out about how much we miss Fred. Having said that, as we speak, the idea and its implementation are still miles apart.
Just thought it strange you mention a new approach from two other managers and not the manager being discussed.
It looks as though ETH wants to change the way we play out of possession this season. Pressing much higher up the pitch. Which, ironically, Fred is very good at but he’s way too chaotic in possession. The idea is, presumably, that Mount can also press high (which the stats seem to back up) and be a lot more careful in possession. I’m not quite sure how Amrabat fits in but he seems very well rounded. He didn’t defend much in Serie A (hence the poor stats) but he seemed to do a lot for Morocco in the WC.
Either way, it seems as though ETH wants all his CMs to be consistently comfortable in possession. Which is fair enough. And doesn’t really leave a place for Fred (obviously McT needs binning off as well)
Not sure the best time to judge if should have stayed or not is when we have 3 central midfielders injured - including his replacement. Ultimately he wasn’t good enough for where we want to be, was 30 and had a year on his contract. If we win sod all in the next 3 years I don’t think we’ll be looking back thinking selling Fred was the reason why - as much as I love him.
No more booze. Fred had 10 good games ever. He was too small to perform his role, had energy, but not the capability. What I regret about Fred is the 50 million plus fee we paid which at the time was massive fee. If anyone thinks we made a mistake go re watch the wolves game when he was dominated by Traore and we got battered.
I know we had a shit start to the season but this is taking the piss. Fred was wank.
that’s what we do, 2 games? Awful signing!
Selling Fred is never a mistake as he was certified not good enough. Not buying adequate quality midfielders is the mistake.
Selling Fred was not a mistake, not replacing Fred was the mistake
You can say the same about Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, McTominay. There isnt a midfielder in the team that hasn't been dominated and we got battered
Spot on. Yep can struggle with consistency but the bigger the game, the bigger the performance. I wish the same could be said of some of the same players.
Also trust me, he was a fighter and wouldnt have given up so easy like some of these lot...
Might be his level but will go down as a legend in Turkey for that reason...
Didnt have to be sold, its not like we got a shit load of money anyway. Could have come off the bench for a season and gone for free next season. Not sure what we gained from selling him, certainly nothing on the pitch and that midfield looks worse.
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