Different sports. NFL is good fun to watch live but like with all American sports, I feel like the drama is almost artificially created within the games.
NFL vs Rugby
- Thread starter VorZakone
- Start date
Yeah, I'm not sure if it makes a huge difference I'm just saying it's a different system which stops the 16, 17 year old stand out players from playing at the top level in the NFL. Last time I read, two thirds of professional players come from academies not amateurs clubs though.
I'd agree that they often come from smaller clubs but not amateur level is my understanding.
So you enjoy rugby more?
I watch way more NFL than Rugby, so I'd say the NFL. But I still feel like there's something artificial about the product I'm watching.
The way it works is that before 14-15 years old players aren't not in a professional setting, that's when they get an apprenticeship contract and are in a professional setting. The biggest clubs in the world kind of create a situation where younger kid can be coached by professional coaches but it's not systematic and it's also not the norm in Football. That's why FIFA created a compensation scheme for amateur and smaller clubs, the academies that you have in mind are the final stage and they generally poach players from a multitude of amateur and semi-professional clubs when these kids are around 14-16 years old, those are the backbone of youth Football.
I think football requires comfortably more skill. Just the motor coordination to do things with your feet for a start. (That's even without going into the sheer number of people you need to be better than to make it at a high level).
I'd argue playing in an improvised game requires more skill than one where plays are predetermined and positions more specialised.
Football isn't an improvised game, players follow rules set by their coach, it's the same principle, in both case they follow a read and react system. They don't go on the field and just improvise.
The bold part is a low level skill applied by literal billions. Now have you ever tried to sprint to a precise point, while contorting your body and throwing something while making sure that you are not crippled during the potential incoming impact? Have you ever tried to throw something backward 5m to 40m with precision and pace while sprinting, are you able to do this with either leading hands? Have you tried to kick a ball with precision while sprinting and also while trying to fulfill a tactical goal? Are you able to kick the ball with either feet with precision and power?
I doubt many folks realize the absurdly high premium placed on footwork in the NFL.
Not to mention having to do it while someone is trying to knock you off of them.
Not to mention having to do it while someone is trying to knock you off of them.
Some parts of plays are predetermined. Many parts are not.
In a modern zone run scheme, an OL knows the direction he steps to make his block, but the person he needs to block is open ended based on who is in his track. A RB knows the preferred gap he should hit, but that changes as the defense moves. A WR frequently has option routes based on how he reads the DB. The QB must read the DBs as well and make the same assmessment as the WR.
Defensively, you have some preset things, like a blitz or zone to cover… but those can change depending on what the offense does pre-snap. Not to mention that after the snap, you must read your keys while flowing to the ball or zone, ad lib to avoid blocks, etc.
All this occurring in a few seconds at an absurdly fast speed.
You’re right. And it’s literally a product. Players traded like commodities, with no youth development at any of the big clubs. You never feel NFL/NBA athletes have the connection with the club/fans you do when you’re watching homegrown players turn out for their rugby clubs. Never mind international players putting their bodies on the line for their country.
Why would I need gun to my head? I gave rugby a try. And got the 5 points out of a hundred. Truly boring shit
Come off it. Literally every skill you mentioned is harder in football. Dribbling with the ball is far harder than carrying and running. Let's not even get into kicking.
I mean try controlling a ball that's been pinged to you over 50 yards without using your hands, a basic skill for a top level footballer that's taken for granted. I mean people generally underestimate how ridiculously skilled top level footballers are--I'm surprised to see it on a football forum
Fair enough, you have skills that most people don't and will never possess.
…but top level NFL players are ridiculously skilled in what they do?
They’re completely different sports, I’m not sure why you have such a bee in your bonnet about which sport is harder and more skilful. They are both hard and require significant levels of slightly different kinds of skills. It’s possible to appreciate both.
I respect any top level sportsperson. Even darts is fecking hard.
I do too. Any top-level sportsperson is exceptionally talented. There's no bee anywhere; I just think football requires more skill
You've never watched the NFL have you, the whole game is based on predetermined play, so is baseball and basketball to a certain extent, as for high-end skill level, if a Quaterback isn't a high-level skill position then I've no idea what one of those is, I don't watch the NFL or college football on any regular bsasis so I'm not biased
Two things I watch the NFL every weeks as well as college Football and you seemingly quoted or read this post out of context nothing in that post is about the NFL.
The connection or lack of it is down to the draft system, that's one of the downsides to it, on the flip side it is a good levelling system that essentially ensures that one team doesn't completly dominate for years on end just because they have a bigger fanbase or more money
Apologies, I missed what you responded to, which is really where my response shpuld have been aimed at
Yes, the way the system prevents stuff like the oil money domination in football is good. Although I don’t think that outweighs the disconnect it causes between clubs and their local fans. The way franchises can just up sticks and relocate to a different city seems so mad to me.
Plus you can’t get past the lack of any national teams in a comparison with a sport like rugby. The national element of team sports like football and rugby is the one remaining aspect of being a fan that hasn’t been completely distorted by all the money swilling around these sports nowadays. I would find it very hard to care about any sport where I didn’t have a national team to follow. Even a crap national team, like the Irish football team.
I could never get into Rugby. For me, it's just boring and I wouldn't ever watch it.
Well one of the things that upping sticks does meas they don't have an OT type stadium
I live in a city which a few years ago was up in arms because the Rams decided to up sticks, well the city didn't upgrade the stadium it had contracted to do so and people covienently forgot that Rams upped sticks from somewhere else to go to STL in the first place, it's always been that way so I guess the Yanks are sued to it
NT - totally agree, it's one of the last bastions of pride amongst the competitors that isn't based on monetary terms
Stick on nfl redzone even for an hour and you'll see some unbelievable skill.
The body control for example of some of these guys is insane.
The body control for example of some of these guys is insane.
Seems odd to compare a league to an overall sport, would be more apt to compare gridiron/American football to rugby or compare NFL to whatever is the top rugby pro league. Anyhow...
Rugby fans... over the decades of the sport has there been discussions and suggestions on changing the game? Like allowing a forward pass for example, would revolutionize the game. Gridiron football broke away from rugby rules in the late 1800s in America with various changes and later implemented the forward pass which truly set it apart from the original game.
I have seen Australia has their own version of rugby with more kicking, what led to this change to the sport?
Rugby fans... over the decades of the sport has there been discussions and suggestions on changing the game? Like allowing a forward pass for example, would revolutionize the game. Gridiron football broke away from rugby rules in the late 1800s in America with various changes and later implemented the forward pass which truly set it apart from the original game.
I have seen Australia has their own version of rugby with more kicking, what led to this change to the sport?
It's because US sports are exclusively franchises not local athletic/sporting clubs or those that were tied to factories, mills, and so forth. There were many local clubs in the 1800s into the early 1900s but had morphed into franchises, folded, or dropped to lower levels by the war era, especially in MLB and NFL.
Is that why college sports are so incredibly popular? They provide more of a local connection that you don’t get with NFL franchises?
Probably so. College sports is more regional in fervor depending on the sport. I have met plenty from the Northeast and most don't care about NCAA sports, they prefer pro sports. But not so in the Southeast where most prefer college football. But in Kansas is college basketball above everything else. Also get the notion most on the West Coast prefer pro sports.
20 of 32 NFL teams have never moved tbf, and a lot of them have fantastic connections with their communities.
Not saying moves are OK, they’re outrageous, but it’s not the whole league.
Compared to the NFL it is. Imagine if every tackle in rugby led to a scrum. You can have your favourite obviously but rugby is definitely more fluid.
I would say it's not even probably, it's notable that a lot of college stadiums are way larger than the pro teams, they get huge crowds and the TV rights are worth billions of $$ as well
It basically does, it's called a maul, then the scrum/fly half stands over the ball for about twenty seconds and waits for the backs to get into formation or then just boots it.
I can't get into NFL at all. So many stoppages and because I don't know the common plays half the time I don't know where the ball has gone.
Rugby is more enjoyable but professionalisation has slowly turned it into a game of attrition. 15 monsters running head first into 15 other monsters.
Rugby League is where its at.
Rugby is more enjoyable but professionalisation has slowly turned it into a game of attrition. 15 monsters running head first into 15 other monsters.
Rugby League is where its at.
What I said on page 1
NFL ratings dwarf college football and so does the revenue.
Those college stadiums... aren't the big ones basically filled with bleachers? Imagine an NFL stadium with only bleachers.
NFL is like chess but played by gun toting loons who need fireworks and laser shows flashing around them to be kept entertained.
Rugby is like Hungry Hungry Hippos if it was played by the third son of a rich family, obviously never destined to inherit anything so they spend their time in the gym snorting protein powders and banging their meatheads against a brick wall to pass the time. They also finish their daily tea drinking sessions by eating the cup.
Real football is played by roadmen who inexplicably still use "mandem", raised by drunken dads who shouted abuse at the referees in their under 11 school matches, a family tradition that they've maintained alongside their need to complain about everything and cheat on their spouses.
Tennis is played by cnuts.
F1 is raced by cnuts who have rich cnut parents.
Rugby is like Hungry Hungry Hippos if it was played by the third son of a rich family, obviously never destined to inherit anything so they spend their time in the gym snorting protein powders and banging their meatheads against a brick wall to pass the time. They also finish their daily tea drinking sessions by eating the cup.
Real football is played by roadmen who inexplicably still use "mandem", raised by drunken dads who shouted abuse at the referees in their under 11 school matches, a family tradition that they've maintained alongside their need to complain about everything and cheat on their spouses.
Tennis is played by cnuts.
F1 is raced by cnuts who have rich cnut parents.
*Ruck, and Ireland's average time to move the ball away from a ruck is 2 seconds.
Straight into another ruck.