The United DNA that nobody who comes to manage us knows what it is

Fortitude

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We've heard of these homages to our DNA from multiple managers post-Fergie, and yet, to a man, they miss the mark in more aspects than not.

What is it that is strived for in pursuit of our infamous DNA that is so evasive? Why are managers who come in so pursuant of homage to the past? Make your own way and have the ego to believe what you do can become bedrock.

Apart from blooding youth and going for the game, is there a uniformly agreed upon DNA that we have, anyway? Subjectively you take bits of this (let's go with stunning wing play), and bits of that (aggression and control through midfield), and add all sorts of intangibles (heart, never say die spirit, determination) and other tangibles to it (great defence and attack)as all our EC/CL-winning and best sides: '68, '99, '08 had these tenets, so too our Babes and the '94 team, but it quickly compounds to too much... DNA... to be of merit, as eventually it just rounds to being very good at most things and exceptional at the vaunted, which isn't particularly unique to United anyway.

Point is, it's something to silently aspire to or have others call out and appraise you for, but pretty pointless to state as it's just a rod for your own back. Obviously, this is in relation to ten Hag, beings as he's the latest to slip into the proverbial DNA quicksand whilst falling so foul of it, you can't help but wonder what has gone wrong between visualisation and conceptualisation, unless he thought our DNA was not having a midfield and hoofing the ball aimlessly the majority of the time? Which is problematic in itself when thinking

This:


Is probably the embodiment of team goals for us, for me. Imagine anyone punting aimless balls then.

Of course, using one extreme against another isn't fair, but on a sliding spectrum, we've used the ball in accordance with the times when great or even good.

Even counter-attacking, our best is along the deck, with this decimation of Arsenal:


being the highest pinnacle I can think of.

I'm mentioning our best because when talking about 'DNA' it's a romanticism of what any club excels at, and if anyone asked you what our DNA is, you're likely to pull some fabulous play from the recesses of your memory, so why does any manager wish to burden himself with something fans don't actually ask for?

Indeed, if you're good enough, you will make an indelible stamp of your own that will be assimilated into the DNA of the club, like Klopp has at Liverpool, whose history before him was more famed for a very slow style of possession football.

Now when Liverpool are mentioned in all-time xi terms, there's a Klopp element to the styling and pace the team would be perceived to play at. Same goes for Pep at Barca or Flick (to a lesser extent) at Bayern. Basically, your football will do the talking for you with the past being left firmly where it is.

That's my take, but what's yours? Other than, cohesive, attacking football, do you feel 'DNA' should interfere with the objectives of anyone coming in to manage the club? Why have we become so intrinsically linked to 'DNA' anyway?
 

Gordon Godot

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These threads are a waste of time, mixing all sorts of analogies. But for what its worth the long standing tradition of United back to Busby has been a belief in youth and a desire to play exciting, attacking football. Which made the appointment of the likes of Moyes, Mourinho and worst of all LVG even more baffling and none had ever done this. Its why Dave Sexton got sacked despite ending a season with a good unbeaten run, its why people loved the Doc before he was sacked for his affair. Its why Ole was given some leeway even if he refused to acknowledge the shortcoming of himself and his coaching staff. Its why ETH, clearly out of his depth with no idea what to do, will also get sacked as above all else he is serving up dire football.
 

ayushreddevil9

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unless he thought our DNA was not having a midfield and hoofing the ball aimlessly the majority of the time? Which is problematic in itself when thinking
Maybe it is
 

ayushreddevil9

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These threads are a waste of time, mixing all sorts of analogies. But for what its worth the long standing tradition of United back to Busby has been a belief in youth and a desire to play exciting, attacking football. Which made the appointment of the likes of Moyes, Mourinho and worst of all LVG even more baffling and none had ever done this. Its why Dave Sexton got sacked despite ending a season with a good unbeaten run, its why people loved the Doc before he was sacked for his affair. Its why Ole was given some leeway even if he refused to acknowledge the shortcoming of himself and his coaching staff. Its why ETH, clearly out of his depth with no idea what to do, will also get sacked as above all else he is serving up dire football.
This is what this thread could be about. How ETH abandoned his own principles falling prey to the Yanited DNA.

He could go back and start working on what he did best but I doubt he will.
 

Spoony

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DNA? I think it's promoting youth players. Our playing style evolved even under Fergie, so sticking to a certain brand of football isn't what they should be concentrating on.
 

Oranges038

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Love that Scholes goal. Simple 1 and 2 touch football with great passing and movement, passes fired into feet and popped off. Don't think there is many in the current squad who are capable of playing that way.

Utd played great football back then, there wasn't really a set style or set patterns of play. Just good intelligent footballers playing in a way that suited the situation in front of them. If they needed to hold the ball they held it, if they needed go all out attack they did it, if they needed to sit in and counter they did it.
 

DomesticTadpole

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DNA? I think it's promoting youth players. Our playing style evolved even under Fergie, so sticking to a certain brand of football isn't what they should be concentrating on.
Agree about youth. Originally Sir Matt said people coming to watch United deserved to be entertained. Nowadays is it winning football that people want? We might have to get winning football then that will give us the confidence to make it very entertaining as well. Would people be happy to see attacking football even if it meant us losing more often than not. Not sure they would. City have changed that dynamic in Manchester.
 

Spoony

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Agree about youth. Originally Sir Matt said people coming to watch United deserved to be entertained. Nowadays is it winning football that people want? We might have to get winning football then that will give us the confidence to make it very entertaining as well. Would people be happy to see attacking football even if it meant us losing more often than not. Not sure they would. City have changed that dynamic in Manchester.
Yeah agreed on the entertaining part which is why the ETH appointment excited so much. I'm still hoping we'll see sexy football.
 

Skills

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The United DNA for the fans is one long term manager. All the coach needs to do is hit the bare minimum on the pitch, and leave it up to the fans to keep him in a job.
 

Lyng

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Love that Scholes goal. Simple 1 and 2 touch football with great passing and movement, passes fired into feet and popped off. Don't think there is many in the current squad who are capable of playing that way.

Utd played great football back then, there wasn't really a set style or set patterns of play. Just good intelligent footballers playing in a way that suited the situation in front of them. If they needed to hold the ball they held it, if they needed go all out attack they did it, if they needed to sit in and counter they did it.
The simple 1 and 2 touch football is something that I remember from United through most of Fergusons career. Our players never really "slept" on the ball and there was always movement to create passing options. The whole hit and hope strategy is something that developed after Ferguson retired.
I long for us to go back to that style of football, but with the likes of Bruno and Maguire that isnt going to happen.
 

DJ_21

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Do we even have a DNA anymore? City didn’t and neither did Liverpool. They let their top managers come in and change the way they played completely. So now going forward they’re going to want managers that can play a similar way.
 

RedStarUnited

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United DNA and you sign Antony - ha! having trained him too so you have no excuses about his quality.
 

RedStarUnited

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Do we even have a DNA anymore? City didn’t and neither did Liverpool. They let their top managers come in and change the way they played completely. So now going forward they’re going to want managers that can play a similar way.
im not old enough to remember but did Liverpool have a “DNA” that all their managers in the 90s got judged against? Considering they were winning everything in the 2 decades before that.
 

In Rainbows

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The only thing Fergie and Busby ever alluded to is that working class fans pay to watch on the weekend so United need to be entertaining. What essentially that means is that any style of attacking football is fine, so long as it's fun to watch. It's a more fluid version of Barca, who demand possession now a days (more rigid interpretation of what beautiful football is). Hence we differ from those clubs.

But it seems like the managers we've hired have somehow misinterpreted that into thinking it needs to be direct. And not even direct like Klopp's side, because I've yet to truly be entertained by any manager post Fergie. Hell, even Fergie had title winning teams that weren't all that exciting to watch. There were threads about that, but we put up with it because Fergie was still winning us titles.

We want entertaining football. I just want to enjoy watching United again. With United's money to supplement that entertaining football, success will follow.
 

siw2007

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The so called United DNA revolves around developing and trusting young players, the never say die attitude in the face of adversity and of course to play exciting attacking football.

However, though the remit is to ‘play exciting attacking football’ I have never seen it as one particular style of play or one particular formation. Busby’s United is very different from the many iterations of Ferguson’s United of whom were very different to each other also. That’s because football has changed, the fitness of players have improved, the skill sets of players have evolved and of course the game has changed in the way it’s played too and the exciting attacking football that we should be playing must respect that.
 

Oranges038

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The simple 1 and 2 touch football is something that I remember from United through most of Fergusons career. Our players never really "slept" on the ball and there was always movement to create passing options. The whole hit and hope strategy is something that developed after Ferguson retired.
I long for us to go back to that style of football, but with the likes of Bruno and Maguire that isnt going to happen.
Aye, it's one thing I always saw and see now when you look back at those Utd teams under SAF. The quality of the passing and movement, every player had to be able to play 1 and 2 touches at speed. Passes were crisp, precise and fired into to feet. I think it's a huge reason why he was able to win the league with Cleverly in midfield, you look at him since and he doesn't look great. But he ran rings around Fred and McT playing for Watford a couple of years ago.

Now it's slow, 4/5/6 touches and the ball is sent in at knee or chest height, no quick passing or movement. Players look like they can't move their feet quick enough, everything looks like a struggle. Confidence might play a part, but I think it's just a lack of technical ability more so than anything else.
 

DJ_21

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im not old enough to remember but did Liverpool have a “DNA” that all their managers in the 90s got judged against? Considering they were winning everything in the 2 decades before that.
Maybe but I highly doubt many of them before Klopp played a pressing game. He’s transformed their style just like guardiola as for city. Solskjær was probably the closest to playing our DNA way which was more or less counter attacking but football has changed since then. ETH has come in and wants to play a high press possession based game but he just can’t so now he’s being judged on the performances and a few people saying he’s playing to the players strengths and doing whatever to win rather then playing a certain way.
 

MegadrivePerson

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I think we should make it a sackable offence for any of our managers to mention the phrase “United DNA”
Agree.

Always makes me cringe when hearing it. There's no such thing as United DNA! It's up there with Father Christmas and the tooth fairy!
 

Tom Van Persie

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https://www.coachesvoice.com/rene-meulensteen-manchester-united-alex-ferguson-solskjaer/
“Listen Ren, I want to have a quick chat about how I like to see United perform.”

He was standing by a flipchart where he’d scribbled notes down over three pages: one on defence, one talking about possession and one about attacking.

“When I see United attack, I want to see them attack with four things: pace, power, penetration and unpredictability.”

Bang, bang, bang, bang.

He spoke in the same way he wanted his team to play.

When he left, after 26 years in charge, that identity went with him. Those four things disappeared. It was laboured. It was slow. Too many touches. No runs.
 

Neil_Buchanan

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Football dna is such a dumb term. If it was in our ‘dna’ to be a certain way then wouldn’t we automatically be doing that because we don’t have a choice. I didn’t strive to be tall and have blue eyes it happened regardless of my effort.
 

AndySmith1990

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There is no DNA. We're a football club that wants to make money and win stuff just like any other football club. We have some great periods of success in our history, but that isn't DNA. It's history. If we ever win anything major again it'll be down to good management, good coaching, and buying a load of good players who play good football, just like any other successful club
 

crossy1686

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It's bollocks, if anything there are expectations from clubs, ours is that you promote youth players into the first team and play attacking football but there's no right to any of that if you don't value it from a managerial perspective.
 

DWelbz19

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This is what this thread could be about. How ETH abandoned his own principles falling prey to the Yanited DNA.

He could go back and start working on what he did best but I doubt he will.
But did you even read the OP? What is "Yanited DNA" -- because if it is what OP has described, ten Hag sure isn't doing that. And whatever he is serving up isn't so alien that he had to abandon all core principles of his own "philosophy"
 

11101

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Our DNA is simply having a manager who has total control over every aspect of the club. The DNA was never the style of play, that was just whatever SAF wanted to play in each game, sometimes we were brilliant and sometimes we wanted to grind out a 1-0.

For obvious reasons that's no longer possible, the club has become too big for a new face to hold that power and the only reason the players responded to those methods is because he was SAF. If he was in a setup where disgruntled players could sneak off to the press and the board was undermining him I don't think he would succeed either.
 

RedUnited86

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DNA is the molecule that carries genetic information for the development and functioning of an organism. This club is not an organism, and as such, does not contain any DNA, it's bollocks.

We win, that's our culture. At least it used to be. All this DNA nonsense. We played some terrible football under Fergie, but winning things trumps all.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Lyng

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Aye, it's one thing I always saw and see now when you look back at those Utd teams under SAF. The quality of the passing and movement, every player had to be able to play 1 and 2 touches at speed. Passes were crisp, precise and fired into to feet. I think it's a huge reason why he was able to win the league with Cleverly in midfield, you look at him since and he doesn't look great. But he ran rings around Fred and McT playing for Watford a couple of years ago.

Now it's slow, 4/5/6 touches and the ball is sent in at knee or chest height, no quick passing or movement. Players look like they can't move their feet quick enough, everything looks like a struggle. Confidence might play a part, but I think it's just a lack of technical ability more so than anything else.
When you play this kind of hit and hope counter / transition football our players are going to be completely knackered. Eriksen is a great example. Denmark (despite having a much lower quality squad than United) play possession based football with few touches on the ball. Funny enough Eriksen never looks tired for the national team. Why? Because he doesnt have to run like a mad man to get back in a defending position after we have given away the ball for the 20th time in the first half. Cities players never get tired because they dont waste energy. Look how they move, its methodical and everyone knows where each other is. Quick passes moving the ball forward.
With us its: press and win the ball back and then hit it forward to our forward line who have to sprint and try to create, and when they lose the ball or one of Bruno's heroballs dont come off, we are on the back foot and have to run and press again.
Our play is erratic and wasteful.
 

NinjaZombie

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I think the biggest United "DNA" is us taking chances with our youth players. Wouldn't mind a bit of that especially when the seniors are failing so bad.

Would the old United have signed a Spurs player on loan when our left backs have long term injuries when we have a couple of promising ones waiting for their chances?
 

RedDevil@84

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I am less concerned about what is the DNA, and more concerned that the club is forcing the managers to play in a particular fashion. We hire a manager to implement that manager's style of play. If the club wants only a certain style of play, they should hire the managers who play that style.
 

Amar__

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It's just an excuse for poor results. Rashford, Bruno, Shaw, de Gea, Lindelof, Maguire, Dalot, Bissaka, are core of the team from earlier managers that had nothing to do with United DNA because they were trained under three or four different managers in their United senior career so far. Add to that Ten Hag has signed crop of players that he trained, and United DNA is the last thing that this team is made of.
 

golden_blunder

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Giving youth a chance and playing attacking football. It’s simple.
tactics and styles open to interpretation but producing teams who have a negative goal difference is not it
 

Oranges038

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When you play this kind of hit and hope counter / transition football our players are going to be completely knackered. Eriksen is a great example. Denmark (despite having a much lower quality squad than United) play possession based football with few touches on the ball. Funny enough Eriksen never looks tired for the national team. Why? Because he doesnt have to run like a mad man to get back in a defending position after we have given away the ball for the 20th time in the first half. Cities players never get tired because they dont waste energy. Look how they move, its methodical and everyone knows where each other is. Quick passes moving the ball forward.
With us its: press and win the ball back and then hit it forward to our forward line who have to sprint and try to create, and when they lose the ball or one of Bruno's heroballs dont come off, we are on the back foot and have to run and press again.
Our play is erratic and wasteful.
I see what you mean, it all goes back to that simple saying "let the ball do the work".

It all adds up over the season too, look at City last year towards the end, they played with the ball and looked fresher because they had less miles on the clock. Utd used to do that, build up to peak fitness and then go on a relentless run in the second half of the season, because they didn't spend every game in a 50/50 battle for possession and scraping to the final whistle for a win. Can't remember the last time we saw a Utd team not struggle to keep hold of the ball and win comfortably.

.
 

Lyng

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I see what you mean, it all goes back to that simple saying "let the ball do the work".

It all adds up over the season too, look at City last year towards the end, they played with the ball and looked fresher because they had less miles on the clock. Utd used to do that, build up to peak fitness and then go on a relentless run in the second half of the season, because they didn't spend every game in a 50/50 battle for possession and scraping to the final whistle for a win. Can't remember the last time we saw a Utd team not struggle to keep hold of the ball and win comfortably.

.
Yep. And then you hear rumour about fitness level, but I dont think thats the issue. I think the issue is, as you said, we play a style that expends all our energy way to soon.
 

Red the Bear

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To be honest because it probably doesn't exist to begin with, the same way no one talks about a supposed Madrid DNA (aside from the winning that is).

I suppose if you want to be really generous you could bring it down to vaguely playing a attacking and attractive football while incorporating the youth, at least that's what it was during our most successful periods but again it doesn't say much as that's basically any successful club on earth, aside from the academy part obviously.