DJ_21
Evens winner of 'Odds or Evens 2022/2023'
Say what you want about Ole. But we played our best football under him by a mile since fergie.
I followed quite a bit of english football back in those days, and I distinctly remember at least his red card vs Newcastle that also stands out to me. Think that was towards the end of the season even.if it wasn't for that goal
Seriously?Ole was a squad striker who would probably be treated at par to the likes of Saha (actually Saha was, at one point, a first teamer but I digress) if it wasn't for that goal. His only managerial experience at a level that can be compared to United was that with Cardiff were he tanked massively. I am being very generous here because managing Everton (ex Moyes) let alone Cardiff is a whole different cup of tea then United.
And its very evident why Ole handled the dressing room better then ETH and its because discipline was non existent during Ole's time. In fact we reached a point were Matic had to police things around and force players who came late to be pay some sort of fine. The squad left by Ole ended up backstabbing the man, it was labelled by Rangnick as in need of an open heart surgery and ETH himself said that he had to create some sort of disciplinary standards as it was non existent.
Finally Sancho was a collective mess ETH had little to do with since he wasn't manager when we signed him. The club (including Ole) ignored his attitude at Dortmund and they never bothered asking if the guy was happy playing as RW (:spoiler alert: he wasn't). Sancho wasn't really used by Ole ie the guy who brought him in the first place. So let's not kid ourselves that issues with Sancho started when ETH appeared. Its not the case.
That doesn't mean it wasn't still shit. It just wasn't as shit as ETH, Moyes.Say what you want about Ole. But we played our best football under him by a mile since fergie.
Ole had an excellent eye for goal especially coming off the bench but he was a squad player, an excellent one but a squad player nevertheless. Some people seem to forget that SAF wanted to sell him to Spurs in 1998. The fee was agreed as well and the deal collapsed because he wanted to stay here.Seriously?
Four players has scored more goals for us the last 50 years than Ole...(Giggs, RVN, Rooney and Ronaldo)
Saha never scored 10 league goals for us in a single season and he was here 5 seasons.
Something about some unfinished business.Ole had an excellent eye for goal especially coming off the bench but he was a squad player, an excellent one but a squad player nevertheless. Some people seem to forget that SAF wanted to sell him to Spurs in 1998. The fee was agreed as well and the deal collapsed because he wanted to stay here.
For the record I didn't want him to leave at the time. He was an old school type of goal poacher who gave us a different dimension to our game as compared to the strikers we had at the time. Cole was the prototype of the modern striker ie someone who could do everything at a decent level (ie dropping deep, help midfield, score goals, play the counter etc) without really excelling in anything in particular. However if the team is 0-0, we're desperate for a win and we're heading towards the last half an hour of the game then, I felt, that the chances of Ole putting the ball in the net was higher then Cole did. In my opinion, the best striker we had during the treble side was Yorke. I thought that he was a tad overrated at Villa but that season with us he proved all critics (including myself) wrong. He was simply electric and the complete striker.Something about some unfinished business.
He was more than a squad player but not quite at the level of being guaranteed starting lineup. Fergie saw that he was very effective coming off the bench. “Super-sub” was the moniker at the time, as he was so prolific when coming on mid-game.Ole had an excellent eye for goal especially coming off the bench but he was a squad player, an excellent one but a squad player nevertheless. Some people seem to forget that SAF wanted to sell him to Spurs in 1998. The fee was agreed as well and the deal collapsed because he wanted to stay here.
He was an excellent squad player, the sort of squad players a treble winning team would need. There's nothing wrong with that. Teddy was a seasoned England's striker and possibly the best partner Alan Shearer had ever had. He was a squad player too.He was more than a squad player but not quite at the level of being guaranteed starting lineup. Fergie saw that he was very effective coming off the bench. “Super-sub” was the moniker at the time, as he was so prolific when coming on mid-game.
LVG and Mourinho… only in his last halve of season is where it crumbled.That doesn't mean it wasn't still shit. It just wasn't as shit as ETH, Moyes.
Were you born yesterday? Incredible ignorance...Ole was a squad striker who would probably be treated at par to the likes of Saha (actually Saha was, at one point, a first teamer but I digress) if it wasn't for that goal. His only managerial experience at a level that can be compared to United was that with Cardiff were he tanked massively. I am being very generous here because managing Everton (ex Moyes) let alone Cardiff is a whole different cup of tea then United.
And its very evident why Ole handled the dressing room better then ETH and its because discipline was non existent during Ole's time. In fact we reached a point were Matic had to police things around and force players who came late to be pay some sort of fine. The squad left by Ole ended up backstabbing the man, it was labelled by Rangnick as in need of an open heart surgery and ETH himself said that he had to create some sort of disciplinary standards as it was non existent.
Sancho was a collective mess ETH had little to do with since he wasn't manager when we signed him. The club (including Ole) ignored his attitude at Dortmund and they never bothered asking if the guy was happy playing as RW (:spoiler alert: he wasn't). Sancho wasn't really used by Ole ie the guy who brought him in the first place. So let's not kid ourselves that issues with Sancho started when ETH appeared. Its not the case.
We speak of lack of professionalism with Rashford partying and calling sick for training, Sancho not giving a toss etc. After our humiliating defeat against Liverpool our previous manager could have fought for his career tooth and nail and drill some sense into the team in a desperate bid to safe his United's career and our season. He chose to go on a family holiday in Norway instead.
Being a goal poacher might be a derogatory word this days which, tbf, is hilarious considering that we bought a 70m striker who struggle to score goals. Yet back in the period they were very common, they were very effective and they were pretty respected. Fowler was a goal poacher, Italy won a world cup with Pippo Inzaghi whose technique was at the pits considering the level he played in. He's also the guy that Jaap Stam struggled the most against. Even Cole started as a goal poacher and he adapted his game on his own admission at United. Ironically he was replaced by a goal poacher in RVN and I tell you, if RVN played in today's football then he would be at par to Haaland.Like, I agree that he was never as good as Cole, RvN and RvP, but just a poacher? Get out of here, someone didn’t pay attention in class..
oh a fan boy. OkWere you born yesterday? Incredible ignorance...
Read the forum rules again and consider an edit.Were you born yesterday? Incredible ignorance...
He looked like he was going to replace David Beckham at right mid before the injury did for him. He might have started as just a goal poacher but he worked hard on his game and became much more than that. His injury allowed Ronaldo to come through of course so not such a bad thing in the end but it was a real shame we never got to see him get a proper season as first choice.Being a goal poacher might be a derogatory word this days which, tbf, is hilarious considering that we bought a 70m striker who struggle to score goals. Yet back in the period they were very common, they were very effective and they were pretty respected. Fowler was a goal poacher, Italy won a world cup with Pippo Inzaghi whose technique was at the pits considering the level he played in. He's also the guy that Jaap Stam struggled the most against. Even Cole started as a goal poacher and he adapted his game on his own admission at United. Ironically he was replaced by a goal poacher in RVN and I tell you, if RVN played in today's football then he would be at par to Haaland.
Were you born yesterday? Incredible ignorance...
You may insist on phrasing it that way, but it seems disingenuous.Ole had an excellent eye for goal especially coming off the bench but he was a squad player, an excellent one but a squad player nevertheless. Some people seem to forget that SAF wanted to sell him to Spurs in 1998. The fee was agreed as well and the deal collapsed because he wanted to stay here.
Could not have put it better myself.You may insist on phrasing it that way, but it seems disingenuous.
Anybody who remembers what was what in those days also remember that he was first choice as striker in 97 when he became our top scorer and won the league, and in 2003 as a right midfield when we also won the league.
They also remember that he was maybe the most effective substitute in the world, and in our history. His way of being a ‘squad player’ was more essential to one of the worlds best teams than many key starters where for other teams.
They also understand that in 98, he was a 24/25 yo who had arrived from Norwegian league a couple of seasons before, his price was high due to being top scorer in 97, and Ferguson had Cole, and Yorke incoming. Ferguson didn’t push to sell, but he allowed it at that point, because he couldn’t guarantee the young lad the playing time he could expect at Spurs. He would later aclnowledge that that was a miscall.
Seeing as I haven’t read anywhere anybody claiming Solskjær was our best player or anything like that, it reads strange to actively revise to belittle the legacy of one of the best loved players of the club the last fifty years, which we all know Solskjær has been.
I never believed that ole as RW could ever happen. The reality was that we spent big money on a young RW who was still a bit raw and we needed to ease him slowly in. In fact after oke got injured Fletcher took that role and he wasn't a RW as wellHe looked like he was going to replace David Beckham at right mid before the injury did for him. He might have started as just a goal poacher but he worked hard on his game and became much more than that. His injury allowed Ronaldo to come through of course so not such a bad thing in the end but it was a real shame we never got to see him get a proper season as first choice.
Very well said.You may insist on phrasing it that way, but it seems disingenuous.
Anybody who remembers what was what in those days also remember that he was first choice as striker in 97 when he became our top scorer and won the league, and in 2003 as a right midfield when we also won the league.
They also remember that he was maybe the most effective substitute in the world, and in our history. His way of being a ‘squad player’ was more essential to one of the worlds best teams than many key starters where for other teams.
They also understand that in 98, he was a 24/25 yo who had arrived from Norwegian league a couple of seasons before, his price was high due to being top scorer in 97, and Ferguson had Cole, and Yorke incoming. Ferguson didn’t push to sell, but he allowed it at that point, because he couldn’t guarantee the young lad the playing time he could expect at Spurs. He would later aclnowledge that that was a miscall.
Seeing as I haven’t read anywhere anybody claiming Solskjær was our best player or anything like that, it reads strange to actively revise to belittle the legacy of one of the best loved players of the club the last fifty years, which we all know Solskjær has been.
Whether you believed it or not the fact is it did happen and he played some genuinely excellent football there. Something a pure goalpoacher like Inzaghi could never do.I never believed that ole as RW could ever happen. The reality was that we spent big money on a young RW who was still a bit raw and we needed to ease him slowly in. In fact after oke got injured Fletcher took that role and he wasn't a RW as well
Exactly.Whether you believed it or not the fact is it did happen and he played some genuinely excellent football there. Something a pure goalpoacher like Inzaghi could never do.
Fair enough, I just don’t really see Inzaghi, Solskjær and Fowler in the same mould. Solskjær had an incredible range of goals. In my mind there are vivid pictures of him placing the ball hard with the inside of his foot from all around the edge of the box and just inside (you’ve probably seen his goal for Norway v Aserbadjan? More Zlatan than Inzaghi) He could be a poacher for sure, which «that goal» (as you begrudginly put it) showed.Being a goal poacher might be a derogatory word this days which, tbf, is hilarious considering that we bought a 70m striker who struggle to score goals. Yet back in the period they were very common, they were very effective and they were pretty respected. Fowler was a goal poacher, Italy won a world cup with Pippo Inzaghi whose technique was at the pits considering the level he played in. He's also the guy that Jaap Stam struggled the most against. Even Cole started as a goal poacher and he adapted his game on his own admission at United. Ironically he was replaced by a goal poacher in RVN and I tell you, if RVN played in today's football then he would be at par to Haaland.
Good lord you’re twisting shit.Ole had an excellent eye for goal especially coming off the bench but he was a squad player, an excellent one but a squad player nevertheless. Some people seem to forget that SAF wanted to sell him to Spurs in 1998. The fee was agreed as well and the deal collapsed because he wanted to stay here.
Fergie tried to sell him because we had 4 good strikers in the squad, but Ole stayed and played here for 9 more seasons after that (the rest of his career) and played 366 games (started 65% of them) for us (He was also quite injury prone and struggled with his knees).Ole had an excellent eye for goal especially coming off the bench but he was a squad player, an excellent one but a squad player nevertheless. Some people seem to forget that SAF wanted to sell him to Spurs in 1998. The fee was agreed as well and the deal collapsed because he wanted to stay here.
Well put. Take out the CL final goal and solskjaer was an excellent player for us and probably the best one v one finisher I've seen at united. He scored 126 goals for us, in around 370 games, much off those appearances were from bench or out wide. He would absolutely walk into our current team as the main strikerYou may insist on phrasing it that way, but it seems disingenuous.
Anybody who remembers what was what in those days also remember that he was first choice as striker in 97 when he became our top scorer and won the league, and in 2003 as a right midfield when we also won the league.
They also remember that he was maybe the most effective substitute in the world, and in our history. His way of being a ‘squad player’ was more essential to one of the worlds best teams than many key starters where for other teams.
They also understand that in 98, he was a 24/25 yo who had arrived from Norwegian league a couple of seasons before, his price was high due to being top scorer in 97, and Ferguson had Cole, and Yorke incoming. Ferguson didn’t push to sell, but he allowed it at that point, because he couldn’t guarantee the young lad the playing time he could expect at Spurs. He would later aclnowledge that that was a miscall.
Seeing as I haven’t read anywhere anybody claiming Solskjær was our best player or anything like that, it reads strange to actively revise to belittle the legacy of one of the best loved players of the club the last fifty years, which we all know Solskjær has been.
I remember well Ole was first teamer in 97 because Andy Cole suffered a horrific injury in 1996 from Neil Ruddock. The English striker returned on the 25th December 1996 against Rapid Vienna. SAF was constantly in search for a striker at a time. He went for Shearer in the summer of 96, he brought Teddy in 97 (tbf it was in response of Cantona retiring), we tried to sell Ole in 1998 and then we went for Yorke in that same year. Sure SAF's kept him after Ole said that he was comfortable in being a squad player. However let's not inflate thing up. Ole was a squad player (though an excellent one)You may insist on phrasing it that way, but it seems disingenuous.
Anybody who remembers what was what in those days also remember that he was first choice as striker in 97 when he became our top scorer and won the league, and in 2003 as a right midfield when we also won the league.
They also remember that he was maybe the most effective substitute in the world, and in our history. His way of being a ‘squad player’ was more essential to one of the worlds best teams than many key starters where for other teams.
They also understand that in 98, he was a 24/25 yo who had arrived from Norwegian league a couple of seasons before, his price was high due to being top scorer in 97, and Ferguson had Cole, and Yorke incoming. Ferguson didn’t push to sell, but he allowed it at that point, because he couldn’t guarantee the young lad the playing time he could expect at Spurs. He would later aclnowledge that that was a miscall.
Seeing as I haven’t read anywhere anybody claiming Solskjær was our best player or anything like that, it reads strange to actively revise to belittle the legacy of one of the best loved players of the club the last fifty years, which we all know Solskjær has been.
Calling him a squad player is not downplaying his role at all. Its exactly what he was ie a squad player. That was the result of the talent we had back then. If Ole played in the current side then he would be a first teamer and probably the best player we've got.Fergie tried to sell him because we had 4 good strikers in the squad, but Ole stayed and played here for 9 more seasons after that (the rest of his career) and played 366 games (started 65% of them) for us (He was also quite injury prone and struggled with his knees).
He averaged a goal contribution in the EPL every 107 minutes for us without taking a single pen.
Compared to:
Saha - 133 minutes
RVN - 112 minutes (134 without pens)
Rooney - 109 minutes (117 without pens)
Cole - 117 minutes
Yorke - 109 minutes
Sheringham - 124 minutes (126 without pens)
RVP - 100 minutes (110 without pens)
Ronaldo - 123 minutes (137 without pens)
Rashford - 140 minutes (149 without pens)
Zlatan - 111 minutes (127 without pens
In other words among the most effective attackers we've had in the PL at the club.
What was Saha's shirt number again?
There's a reason the 20LEGEND banner was seen in the stadium every time we played when he was manager.
I don't understand the need to downplay his role at the club as a player. The perfect clubplayer. Come off the bench, start, whatever is best for the team.
He's definitely not our biggest legend, but he is definitely not just some squadplayer who was here for a while and moved on like you try to imply. He made a big mark here. Won 6 league titles and a CL with us.
Agree to disagree. You aren’t, and weren’t a fan of Ole personally. Fair enough.I remember well Ole was first teamer in 97 because Andy Cole suffered a horrific injury in 1996 from Neil Ruddock. The English striker returned on the 25th December 1996 against Rapid Vienna. SAF was constantly in search for a striker at a time. He went for Shearer in the summer of 96, he brought Teddy in 97 (tbf it was in response of Cantona retiring), we tried to sell Ole in 1998 and then we went for Yorke in that same year. Sure SAF's kept him after Ole said that he was comfortable in being a squad player. However let's not inflate thing up. Ole was a squad player (though an excellent one)
And I've said it already that there's nothing wrong with being a squad player. Football is won and lost by squads. I was also against selling Ole as well. But lets not write history either as he was an excellent striker who gave us something different to what that forward line could give and he was probably on a low salary as well. However let's not write history. He was a squad player.
Your exact words were: Ole was a squad striker who would probably be treated at par to the likes of Saha (actually Saha was, at one point, a first teamer but I digress) if it wasn't for that goal.Calling him a squad player is not downplaying his role at all. Its exactly what he was ie a squad player. That was the result of the talent we had back then. If Ole played in the current side then he would be a first teamer and probably the best player we've got.
There's no doubt that he had an excellent eye for goal. I never disputed that. However there's no denying that he was a squad player.
I literally said that he was an excellent squad player, that he was an excellent goal scorer, that trophies are won by squads and that I disagreed on the club trying to sell him. Does that come across as a person who wasn't a fan of Ole as a player? All I am saying is that we shouldn't rewrite history as well. Ole was a squad player in a forward line that SAF kept trying to bring new people in. TBF Teddy was brought in response to Cantona's retirement yet Shearer/Yorke were not. Its also true that we agreed his transfer with Spurs.Agree to disagree. You aren’t, and weren’t a fan of Ole personally. Fair enough.
What's wrong with Saha exactly? Bar his injuries, Saha was a magnificent striker who pushed possibly the best finisher the club had ever had throughout SAF's reign out of the first team. When RVN came in, Cole immediately called quits. That's how ridiculously good RVN was. Did Ole manage to push Cole out of the first team? You know the answer.Your exact words were: Ole was a squad striker who would probably be treated at par to the likes of Saha (actually Saha was, at one point, a first teamer but I digress) if it wasn't for that goal.
If that's not trying to downplay his role and status at the club I don't know what is.
He would be one of our best players. That's true.I absolutely loved him as a player and he's a top bloke. Not a very good manager, but that doesn't negate how good a player he was. If he were a player today, he would be one of our best players.
I didn’t refute any of that, and I agree all were better players. Sir Alex always tried to better his teams, doesn’t mean Ole was only an excellent goalscorer and squad player. I’d argue he was one of the players who showed up when we most needed it, which points to an incredible mentality as well. He also scored the winner vs Liverpool in the FA cup run if I’m not remembering it wrong.I literally said that he was an excellent squad player, that he was an excellent goal scorer, that trophies are won by squads and that I disagreed on the club trying to sell him. Does that come across as a person who wasn't a fan of Ole as a player? All I am saying is that we shouldn't rewrite history as well. Ole was a squad player in a forward line that SAF kept trying to bring new people in. TBF Teddy was brought in response to Cantona's retirement yet Shearer/Yorke were not. Its also true that we agreed his transfer with Spurs.
I am too blunt for my own good. There's a very good reason for that but I don't feel like sharing it on the public forum.I didn’t refute any of that, and I agree all were better players. Sir Alex always tried to better his teams, doesn’t mean Ole was only an excellent goalscorer and squad player. I’d argue he was one of the players who showed up when we most needed it, which points to an incredible mentality as well. He also scored the winner vs Liverpool in the FA cup run if I’m not remembering it wrong.
I don’t know why your posts seems derogatory, maybe not what you say, but how you say it? Anyway, no big deal, we’re allowed to rate differently.
He was seen as a squad bench option but in the days when we had Sheringham, Cole, Yorke and Ole and all of them were good enough to be starting and all probably capable of 20+ goals a season. Those were the days. Now we have a kid and Martial as striker options.Agree to disagree. You aren’t, and weren’t a fan of Ole personally. Fair enough.
Nothing wrong with Saha, but for club status the comparison is embarressing.What's wrong with Saha exactly? Bar his injuries, Saha was a magnificent striker who pushed possibly the best finisher the club had ever had throughout SAF's reign out of the first team. When RVN came in, Cole immediately called quits. That's how ridiculously good RVN was. Did Ole manage to push Cole out of the first team? You know the answer.
For the record I believe that if Ole played in this squad then he would be one of our best players.He was seen as a squad bench option but in the days when we had Sheringham, Cole, Yorke and Ole and all of them were good enough to be starting and all probably capable of 20+ goals a season. Those were the days. Now we have a kid and Martial as striker options.