PSR Loopholes

Solius

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Thoughts? Wonder how these players feel basically being used to dodge regulations. No thought for their careers or where they want to be?

Getting very tired of clubs spending every waking hour trying to skirt any rule that they deem not fair enough for them. Villa especially going down a bad route, siding with City and everything.
 
I'd like them to change the rules.

Selling academy kids should not be the best way to meet the requirements.

I totally understand why clubs are using these rules to their advantage.
 
Solius said:


Thoughts? Wonder how these players feel basically being used to dodge regulations. No thought for their careers or where they want to be?

Getting very tired of clubs spending every waking hour trying to skirt any rule that they deem not fair enough for them. Villa especially going down a bad route, siding with City and everything.
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Their owner is a complete and utter bellend. Seems like the kind of guy who'd happily watch the world burn around him, as long as he was still making a profit from it.
 
Villa have qualified for the UCL through good recruitment and coaching yet instead of being able to build on that properly are having to sell top players and top youngsters (that could have helped them consolidate their position) because of "FFP", possibly to some of the status quo clubs they're trying to gazump.

Can't argue these rules are doing what they were designed for I guess.
 
The PSR rules are fecking stupid. Imagine thinking it's a good idea to have rules that encourage teams to sell their academy players...

I'm all for hard caps that apply equally to all the teams in the league, that would be fair.
 
Dancfc said:
Villa have qualified for the UCL through good recruitment and coaching yet instead of being able to build on that properly are having to sell top players and top youngsters (that could have helped them consolidate their position) because of "FFP", possibly to some of the status quo clubs they're trying to gazump.

Can't argue these rules are doing what they were designed for I guess.
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They've qualified by spending an absolute fecking fortune, this isn't a plucky underdog story like Brighton.
 
Bale Bale Bale said:
Less egregious than selling hotels to yourself I guess.
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It all falls under the same category really. Chelsea have been one of the worst. City’s speaks for itself and now you’ve got the bogus Savio deal for “fair market value”.
 
Dancfc said:
Villa have qualified for the UCL through good recruitment and coaching yet instead of being able to build on that properly are having to sell top players and top youngsters (that could have helped them consolidate their position) because of "FFP", possibly to some of the status quo clubs they're trying to gazump.

Can't argue these rules are doing what they were designed for I guess.
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They’ve spent plenty of money and knew when paying these fees that they would have to cover it by using one of their own as a pawn.
 
AltiUn said:
They've qualified by spending an absolute fecking fortune, this isn't a plucky underdog story like Brighton.
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Yeah I don't understand how people aren't getting this. They did well last season, but look at all the money they wasted on guys like Coutinho and Ings. Hiring and firing Steven Gerrard couldn't have been cheap, and I'm sure they're paying Emery a fortune.

They've just chucked money at the wall until enough of it has stuck, but all that expense became tomorrow's problem. Now we're at tomorrow they're complaining that the rules are stopping their 'ambition'...
 
Meh, they're just kicking the can down the road. The overvalued swaps will come back to bite them next season
 
Bit of Juve book keeping.

Maatsen £37m, Kellyman £18m
Dobbin £8m, Iroegbunam £10m
Lewin £35m, Minteh £30m
 
All this makes me realise, is how much I'm falling out of love with this beautiful sport.

Becoming more and more of a business than actual sport. Also the sport in itself is catering more and more for the rich, not really a "sport for the common people" as it was when I started following it back in the early 90s.

What these clubs, like Villa and Chelsea are doing, is basically money laundering. Yes I know and am not naive to know and realise that there's always been shady business involved in football, but what's happening lately is on a whole other level imo.
 
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It’s shit. I’m seeing fans of each club defend this as some kind of necessity to survive but it’s utter shit.

Teenagers being shifted around between clubs like cattle just so clubs can register a gain on a spreadsheet. It’s fecking despicable imo. I hate it.
 
Skills said:
Meh, they're just kicking the can down the road. The overvalued swaps will come back to bite them next season
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This - all it's really doing is shifting the timing of amortization expenses to future years
 
At this point anyone coming in defending this or saying “oh they should be allowed to spend” is a fecking idiot.
Between Chelsea, Villa, Newcastle and Everton in the last five years they must have spent upwards of 2 billion between them. To some success and to some not (Everton)

All this skirting around the rules shit just ends with more regulations coming in.
People need to understand and accept that there HAS to be financial rules in sport. Literally every fecking sport/league in the world has some form of financial/salary rules. The Pl aren’t doing some ground breaking thing putting such rules in place.

These clubs are just making mockery of the whole thing.
 
Another interesting PSR workaround would be mark-to-market player valuations. I'm assuming there are rules against it, as no club seems to have tried it. It would render PSR toothless overnight.
 
duffer said:
I'd like them to change the rules.

Selling academy kids should not be the best way to meet the requirements.

I totally understand why clubs are using these rules to their advantage.
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Everyone loves an academy player who makes it to the first team. Rules surely need to be changed to stop clubs having to move these players on to get around PSR.
 
AltiUn said:
They've qualified by spending an absolute fecking fortune, this isn't a plucky underdog story like Brighton.
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Solius said:
They’ve spent plenty of money and knew when paying these fees that they would have to cover it by using one of their own as a pawn.
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In theory I agree, but my main issue is if the Villa owner was some asset stripping parasite who didn't give two fecks about them and was using them for personal gain that would be deemed perfectly fine under the same "rules".

Martin Samuel summed it up a decade ago when the rules were starting to get off the ground, a Jack Walker type would be punished but the Venkys would be deemed fine.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-plot-ruin-Premier-League--Martin-Samuel.html
 
I don’t blame the clubs personally

Shit like this was inevitable when they didn’t properly and fairly implement the FFP rules. We make a pigs ear of literally any change
 
Mb194dc said:
The PSR rules are fecking stupid. Imagine thinking it's a good idea to have rules that encourage teams to sell their academy players...

I'm all for hard caps that apply equally to all the teams in the league, that would be fair.
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Agreed, if anything they should try to do the opposite.
 
In the longer term football needs to reset itself and its prices, including transfer fees, agent fees etc otherwise clubs will continue to try and circumnavigate rules to try and buy. When clubs are selling their youth players for 10m+ fees there is something wrong, when players who have played a handful of games are being marketed as 100m players there’s something wrong. Huge reset required
 
golden_blunder said:
In the longer term football needs to reset itself and its prices, including transfer fees, agent fees etc otherwise clubs will continue to try and circumnavigate rules to try and buy. When clubs are selling their youth players for 10m+ fees there is something wrong, when players who have played a handful of games are being marketed as 100m players there’s something wrong. Huge reset required
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What do you mean by reset? There's more money than ever flowing into the sport, so naturally player spending will also increase. As a % of revenue, spending on players hasn't changed much over the years.
 
It's shit. But we watch game after game where players cheat and push the laws to win games and are ok with it. Why shouldn't owners do the same.
 
Create stupid rules with silly incentives like pure profit selling academy talent you get stupid results. PL only has itself to blame
 
Big Ben Foster said:
What do you mean by reset? There's more money than ever flowing into the sport, so naturally player spending will also increase. As a % of revenue, spending on players hasn't changed much over the years.
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The rules restrict smaller clubs in particular.
The rules are hemming in the wrong clubs
A longer term view would be to have the rules + lower fees so that smaller clubs can remain competitive + rules around squads having so many home grown players + teams must have certain amount of homegrown players.
 
Cassidy said:
Create stupid rules with silly incentives like pure profit selling academy talent you get stupid results. PL only has itself to blame
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I agree it shouldn’t be incentivised but academy products by their nature will always be pure profit. There’s no way the PL can change that.
 
Solius said:
I agree it shouldn’t be incentivised but academy products by their nature will always be pure profit. There’s no way the PL can change that.
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They don’t have to be for PSR purposes actually. Especially if the PL wants to incentivise homegrown talent.
 
duffer said:
I'd like them to change the rules.

Selling academy kids should not be the best way to meet the requirements.

I totally understand why clubs are using these rules to their advantage.
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Yep same.

Rules changing next summer anyway to the 80% cap.

Tim will have a decent chance of playing at Everton compared to with us so that is a logical move, us signing Dobbin really isn't and exactly the type of deal to bypass FFP.
 
Acrobat7 said:
Somewhere Arthur and Pjanic are smiling.
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That move basically killed both careers at the top level.

Morata is another who just seems to get endlessly passed between clubs in FFP issues.
 
Cassidy said:
Create stupid rules with silly incentives like pure profit selling academy talent you get stupid results. PL only has itself to blame
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The profit from selling a player is equal to the sale price no matter what. It's just that with academy players, or players signed on a free, you get it all over one season, while with others a portion is distributed over the duration of their contract.

The only clubs incentivized to sell like this are those in immediate need of PSR wiggle room. Other clubs are incentivized to keep them over other players.
 
Yeah, I've literally been saying for a while that it's stupid that FFP leads to less opportunities for academy graduates. Should be a simple change.
 
Dancfc said:
Villa have qualified for the UCL through good recruitment and coaching yet instead of being able to build on that properly are having to sell top players and top youngsters (that could have helped them consolidate their position) because of "FFP", possibly to some of the status quo clubs they're trying to gazump.

Can't argue these rules are doing what they were designed for I guess.
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Imagine how much more opportunities they'd have if City, Chelsea and Newcastle weren't able to outspend them.

Stupidest line of argument ever this. FFP is needed otherwise literally two or three clubs will dominate everything. It helps out smaller clubs MASSIVELY.
 
Solius said:
I agree it shouldn’t be incentivised but academy products by their nature will always be pure profit. There’s no way the PL can change that.
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Should change the way they account for transfer fees and make it simple money in, money out, and make clubs report academy running costs as part of the balance sheet (if they don't already).

None of this "he cost £80 million but we gave him a four year contract, so it's only £20 million a year, and selling him after three years means getting £25 million for him is actually a £5 million profit".
 
Wumminator said:
Imagine how much more opportunities they'd have if City, Chelsea and Newcastle weren't able to outspend them.

Stupidest line of argument ever this. FFP is needed otherwise literally two or three clubs will dominate everything. It helps out smaller clubs MASSIVELY.
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Like I said, if thsse rules also protected clubs against Venkys/Oyston type owners then fine, but it doesn't.
 
FootballHQ said:
That move basically killed both careers at the top level.

Morata is another who just seems to get endlessly passed between clubs in FFP issues.
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It was more after leaving Chelsea he signed for Atletico Madrid and then six months later joined Juventus on a two year loan.

Juve are basically the masters at manipulating PSR when you look at most of their transfer dealings with first team players in last five years.
 
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